It's Official: USAirways Wants American

[Turtle21]

I agree..What do I know, but I believe it'll be a do over. Nic has never been implemented.

Hardly a do over. This is an entirely new merger situation. Looking back to a proposal that was never ratified or implemented, and submitting a proposal for arbitration (rather than actual true, ratified, current seniority lists) would be a serious breach of DFR, whether NIC or DOH.

Submitting the NIC or a DOH list would be a false representation of the current seniority status of every pilot as it exists today.

An arbitrator would not be merging lists that are desired or possible sometime in the future, but merging lists as they are currently and legally enforced across the fleet.

 

[Carl S.]

Turtle, the TA is still in effect and goes away with a joint contract with the Nic in place. Guess what, APA is looking at your new contract right now and if this goes forward, the Nic is the list for AWA/AAA and then comes LCC/AA....still with me? Dream all you want about second bites, present positions and three lists, but AWA/AAA is done, just waiting for that joint contract thing to happen, who would of thought it could come this way with no East input!!! Contract law, its a b*tch isn't it....

 

[B-atch]

Turtle, the TA is still in effect and goes away with a joint contract with the Nic in place. Guess what, APA is looking at your new contract right now and if this goes forward, the Nic is the list for AWA/AAA and then comes LCC/AA....still with me? Dream all you want about second bites, present positions and three lists, but AWA/AAA is done, just waiting for that joint contract thing to happen, who would of thought it could come this way with no East input!!! Contract law, its a b*tch isn't it....

prepare to be disappointed.....nic is doa. The sooner you embrace this, the faster we move forward.

 

[dollacrackho]

Lets just kill the whole merger its so much more fun getting paid sh!t wages and listening to 5 year olds argue about who stole their cookie.

 

[waveflyer]

Again, the east is dealing in reality as they wish it were rather than how it is-
That's always a tough lesson-
In any case, this time you won't have the numbers to manipulate the situation- usair combined will largely be along for the ride

What I find funny is the eery similarities between this acquisition and the last one.

USAir felt superior to AWA
AA has always been a superior airline to usair

The question isn't Nic, that's been done- it's if arbitration yields a list that AA isn't happy with, would they pull numbers, and go the route the east went?

How would you east pilots feel about that?

 

[Scoot 11]

Classless.... very disappointing

He's a Southwest pilot. I expect nothing less! You did notice how the SW moderator let that go but reprimands anything/everything you might say towards his airline.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ASADFW7]

I gave the poster an infraction and sent him a private email about the language. As for banning him I front of everyone else, we have a progression scale that we use for such behavior. Further offenses may merit a suspension. Self policing and flagging posts helps everyone as well. That post was flagged, and I did respond. It is the weekend and I was both working and now holding my five month old on my lap as I type. Thanks for the input, it is always needed as what makes this forum work is the members.

 

[On Your Six]

prepare to be disappointed.....nic is doa. The sooner you embrace this, the faster we move forward.

No, it is not. It's called binding arbitration. The company is waiting to see with Judge Silver how to handle it, but they are aware that they could be sued also if anything affects the West side. The APA is also aware I am sure. So, when USAPA is voted out, the APA will most likely reinstate the NIC award, and then move forward with an eventual SLI. You can't escape obligation, and that happened when your MEC signed up for BINDING ARBITRATION.


Godspeed!

The OYSter

 

[Carl S.]

Lots of desperate pilots out East this weekend thinking about COC not a factor, APA cram down, no input to their future, joint contract with NIC and no ratification vote. Far from a done deal, but karma is a b*tch for those that dealt it out for the past seven years to West pilots.

 

[Flybywire44]

OYS, everyone knows what binding arbitration is. We're trying to discuss how Leo, East and APA will search for LEGAL BASIS to impose ajendas.

There will be a quick transition to APA usurping USAPA. I expect USAPA will transition towards playing a minimal role in this process—its leadership may become more concerned with gaining seats within APA. Leo will always retain the right to pursue injunctions/lawsuits against any SLI process that disregards Nic.

Nic becomes effective when an agreement between East and West is signed, but how does a single contract between East, West and APA change things? APA is a third party not bound to Nic. Does this mean that there could be a legal basis for another round of binding arbitration? We can't rule this possibility out.

What incentive does APA have to support Nic? The Nic award will hurt APA pilot career progression by introducing relatively younger pilots ahead of yet another larger voting block of more tenured professionals set to retire well in advance of West pilots.

APA may be exploring ways to maneuver around Nic. As any good union would, I'm sure they're considering all options/scenarios/incentives.

 

[Turtle21]

Turtle, the TA is still in effect and goes away with a joint contract .....

The TA which only addresses a merger of USAir and AWA is not adequate to effect/execute the present proposed merger, not even.

 

[vetrider]

OYS, everyone knows what binding arbitration is. We're trying to discuss how Leo, East and APA will search for LEGAL BASIS to impose ajendas.

There will be a quick transition to APA usurping USAPA. I expect USAPA will transition towards playing a minimal role in this process—its leadership may become more concerned with gaining seats within APA. Leo will always retain the right to pursue injunctions/lawsuits against any SLI process that disregards Nic.

Nic becomes effective when an agreement between East and West is signed, but how does a single contract between East, West and APA change things? APA is a third party not bound to Nic. Does this mean that there could be a legal basis for another round of binding arbitration? We can't rule this possibility out.

What incentive does APA have to support Nic? The Nic award will hurt APA pilot career progression by introducing relatively younger pilots ahead of yet another larger voting block of more tenured professionals set to retire well in advance of West pilots.

APA may be exploring ways to maneuver around Nic. As any good union would, I'm sure they're considering all options/scenarios/incentives.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure about some of your post, but that's ok, no biggie. Regarding that last bolded sentence though, I suspect you're right. I remember looking at a rundown of the APA meeting from an ex-AA pilot that was making the rounds. In it, regarding the seniority issue, there was a comment along the lines of there being 'various opinions' amongst some legal folks they've run the issue by at the cursory level.

 

[waveflyer]

I'm kind of curious what was written now

Not intentionally trying to fire anybody up- I view the APA in high esteem and believe they will act honorably in the best interests of the profession and themselves-
Good luck with the East though- don't let them tell you what 777 line they'll be bidding on after they displace you, on the shuttle bus when this "done deal" goes through

As always I represent only my alter ego waveflyer on FI, not swa, and not even my more tempered real self - its FI fellas, relax.

 

[On Your Six]

OYS, everyone knows what binding arbitration is. We're trying to discuss how Leo, East and APA will search for LEGAL BASIS to impose ajendas.

There will be a quick transition to APA usurping USAPA. I expect USAPA will transition towards playing a minimal role in this process—its leadership may become more concerned with gaining seats within APA. Leo will always retain the right to pursue injunctions/lawsuits against any SLI process that disregards Nic.

Nic becomes effective when an agreement between East and West is signed, but how does a single contract between East, West and APA change things? APA is a third party not bound to Nic. Does this mean that there could be a legal basis for another round of binding arbitration? We can't rule this possibility out.

What incentive does APA have to support Nic? The Nic award will hurt APA pilot career progression by introducing relatively younger pilots ahead of yet another larger voting block of more tenured professionals set to retire well in advance of West pilots.

APA may be exploring ways to maneuver around Nic. As any good union would, I'm sure they're considering all options/scenarios/incentives.

It's very easy. US positions to aquire AA, and tells the East and West that if they don't merge the lists the way the NIC award was supposed to do, then they will operate AA seperately, (just like the East and West are done now---staying on their own planes), and only give the AA guys the raise. Take it or leave it. If they want a 30% raise, they will do it. If not and they want to continue to be babies and stubborn, then they can vote no. Then, when the APA tries to get a vote for a union, and the Westies overwhelmingly agree to vote USAPA out, the East guys will be left holding the bag.

Judge Silver will be issuing a ruling shortly, and everyone knows the Easties went around a binding award. It's just obvious. So, a lot is also riding on Judge Silver. I suspect there will be another round of Binding Arbitration, but after the NIC award is presented as the US list.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[Turtle21]

I'm kind of curious what was written now

Not intentionally trying to fire anybody up- I view the APA in high esteem and believe they will act honorably in the best interests of the profession and themselves-
Good luck with the East though- don't let them tell you what 777 line they'll be bidding on after they displace you, on the shuttle bus when this "done deal" goes through

As always I represent only my alter ego waveflyer on FI, not swa, and not even my more tempered real self - its FI fellas, relax.

You sir are not really a pilot if you believe there is any collective honor among union members. :lol: well you can say it but you cannot believe it, not if you have ever paid ALPA dues. :lol: