I thought riding on airline could not get any worse

[imacdog]

Why is that Occam?

 

[Diesel]

Because we all suck, some just suck more than others.

On the good news the TSA just told me I don't have a shiv in my rectum..... good to know.

 

[Jafo73]

Hi, I just got back from about 5 weeks of training in CMH. Easton (about 1 mile north of Bridgeway on I-270) has a lot to offer. Lot's of shops, restaurants, a mall and movie theater etc. Also 1.5 hours to the north in Sandusky, OH is Cedar Point, one of the best amusement parks in the country. Then there is Dayton about an hour to the south, where the Air Force museum is. It is excellent especially for kids and aviation enthusiasts. Also downtown is not bad and has a nice park are. That's about all I know of being a newby and all.

Hope that helps some.

Dayton/Wright-Patterson AFB is West of Columbus on I-70... don't want to confuse those reading maps... :beer:

 

[Occam's Razor]

Why is that Occam?

Because the volume of bizjet traffic will result in more scrutiny and involvement by the government...federal, state, and local.

The city of Santa Monica has placed restrictions on some bizjets because of noise. They won't be the only ones. California has enacted special taxes for some bizjet traffic. The TSA is itching to start wanding bizjet crews and pax at FBO's. Our President (Dubya) wants user fees.

At some point the convenience and simplicity of bizjet travel will join the "elegance" of airline travel as a fond memory.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Because the volume of bizjet traffic will result in more scrutiny and involvement by the government...federal, state, and local.

The city of Santa Monica has placed restrictions on some bizjets because of noise. They won't be the only ones. California has enacted special taxes for some bizjet traffic. The TSA is itching to start wanding bizjet crews and pax at FBO's. Our President (Dubya) wants user fees.

At some point the convenience and simplicity of bizjet travel will join the "elegance" of airline travel as a fond memory.

Biz jets are quieter than 121 jets.

On the last point... not as long as money calls the shots and last I checked... money calls the shots.

 

[captain007]

Wow, we are so far off topic...But Cedar Point has the best coasters....

Great, we have three weeks of training in tol. I am there one of the days.

 

[CopilotDoug]

...money calls the shots.

Agreed. The pax of the Bizjet world aren't your Greyhound crowd currently flying the Friendly Skies.

 

[imacdog]

Are you sure it's our president that wants user fees and not the airlines?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Are you sure it's our president that wants user fees and not the airlines?

The ATA is spearheading it

http://web.nbaa.org/public/news/pr/2008/20080521-032.php

 

[CA1900]

Are you sure it's our president that wants user fees and not the airlines?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/15/washington/15air.htm

Highlights:

WASHINGTON, Feb. 14 — The Bush administration proposed Wednesday to eliminate the tax on plane tickets and air cargo shipments, shifting the cost of the air traffic control system largely to user fees and increased taxes on fuel.

... the plan would increase taxes on aviation fuels by 250 percent...

 

[imacdog]

and who, pray tell, gave him that idea?

Not that it matters - those who can afford private jet travel will pay whatever it takes to avoid the airlines. I would too if i could afford it.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Riiiight, more seats, less legroom, surely FA"s, overcrowded overheads, no more ontime departures or arrivals, long lines at checkin, long times to wait for baggage, cancellations....

Should I continue?

Not really sure what you mean. Other than United and AA's economy plus seating going bye bye, most airlines have maintained or increased the legroom.

I know MD-80s used to seat 161 pax at most airlines, now they only have 150 seats in the US, and Midwest Airlines has only 132 seats in some of theirs.
I'm can't speak for all other airplane types, but I'm almost 6' 2" and 260 lbs and I have absolutely no problem with the legroom in most airlines. In fact it's only the seat width that bothers me most, especially in RJ's. Overcrowded overheads are the fault of the passengers, not the airlines; they surely haven't decreased the size of the overhead bins and they haven't increased allowable size of carryons.

Ontime departures and arrivals change constantly, some years are better, some are worse. The same goes for lost luggage. Since I was a ticket agent for CAL in 2000, most airlines have voluntarily raised their liability for lost luggage from $1500 to over $2500. In the 1990's it used to be less than $1000.
Check-in line wait times have decreased significantly too thanks to online check-in and e-ticket kiosks.

Ticket prices have also decreased significantly from 10 years ago. They're just now starting to increase again.
I'm sure some of the FA's are surly, but I can't really blame them when you have pax complaining all day long for no good reason.

I've found that most passengers will complain about anything when it comes to the airlines, even if there's no basis for it.

 

[gunfyter]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/15/washington/15air.htm

Highlights:

A tax increase on the Rich! How out of character.

 

[imacdog]

Check-in line wait times have decreased significantly too thanks to online check-in and e-ticket kiosks.

Yep right up until you have a problem with your ticket or the machines are down. Then you're effed in the A trying to get an actual human to help you out.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Biz jets are quieter than 121 jets.

Doesn't matter. Proximity to the noisemaker matters. Know of any curfews that affect bizjets at non-121 airports?

On the last point... not as long as money calls the shots and last I checked... money calls the shots.

Actually, We The People call the shots (I looked it up!). That means SMO can pass an ordinance restricting bizjets regardless of how loudly the "money" was talking. That means states can pile-on taxes and fees...and it means people squawking about "rich folk" not getting wanded at Signature is going to result in you barefoot and grumbling on your way to work.

Don't think for a second the ATA and other groups aren't aware of what's happening.

 

[ProFracPilot]

That means SMO can pass an ordinance restricting bizjets regardless of how loudly the "money" was talking.

They can pass all the ordinances they want. That doesn't mean they'll keep their restrictions. Unfortunately for the City of Santa Monica, they ate from the public trough of FAA Airport Improvement Funds. The acceptance of these funds came with performance guarantees - one is the public access to the aiport for a fixed period of time (25 years?). Also, the city is attempting to couch a noise issue in a safety restriction - basically mixing apples and oranges. I don't believe the city will prevail in the short term.

Don't think for a second the ATA and other groups aren't aware of what's happening.

Oh, they're certainly all part of the well orchestrated attack on general aviation. The legacy carriers have failed to properly manage their business for decades. They're not getting the windfall they'd like from the government, so why not attack the (perceived) deep pockets? It doesn't matter whether or not user fees would equitable in the overall picture of air travel. This user fee debate is right out of the liberals playbook of legalizing wealth transfer, and unfairly imposing taxes.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Blame who you wish...it's gonna happen.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Doesn't matter. Proximity to the noisemaker matters. Know of any curfews that affect bizjets at non-121 airports?

This is true, turbo-props can and have set these off before.

Actually, We The People call the shots (I looked it up!).

Yes we do! (Right after Corporate America which is dumping millions into lobbying efforts for their interests)

That means SMO can pass an ordinance restricting bizjets regardless of how loudly the "money" was

Not when they're receiving federal money. Yes, SMO did pass an ordinance, but the FAA got a court ordered injunction to block it.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Yes, SMO did pass an ordinance, but the FAA got a court ordered injunction to block it.

Hooray! The threat is defeated! Now you don't have to worry about TSA-creep, noise/aircraft restrictions, or fees and taxes!

Move along now. Nothing to see here.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Razor, your insight here is priceless. But you're really needed back over on the Majors board. Not that you're wanted anywhere.