I thought riding on airline could not get any worse

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez,
I think you misunderstand what's going on here. You seem awfully defensive, but the simple fact is that the US airline industry is doing a poor job. If you compare the level of service to even 10 years ago, you would see remarkable differences. Now why? Simple. Because the airlines, by their desperation, have made one stupid decision after another, and to make up for it they have to cut cut cut. As a result, the only people they can currently attract are the Jerry Springer crowd. THIS is where the majority of the complaints are. Not to omit other stupidity like pushing off the gate for the "on time" departure that they KNOW is going to sit and sit and sit. Or hiring those brainless consultants who come up with such idiotic ideas (like the window-middle-aisle boarding process). Or now charging for the first checked bag. Now we can have an even longer wait to board while cheap-azz passengers try desperately to overstuff the bins. Here come more late departures. So what happens? Mgt will send notes to the crews telling them that they are the slow link.
In my opinion, there are 2 airlines that have their stuff together, hopefully you work for them. SWA, I hate their clientèle, but I love the way they run things. Even if I do have to ride from PHX to BWI on a 737. The other is Continental. You get a decent snack, planes are C-L-E-A-N and the crews, agents, etc are all top notch (if I can only find a way to not get that middle seat!).
You call us whiners and crybabies...do you really think that we are the only ones who are displeased with the airlines these days? Try riding on a foreign carrier, and you will see firsthand that the US airline industry is the Tijuana of resorts.

No, I understand... and I agree.

The airlines suck. In fact that is the reason many guys went to the fracs. The airline job sucks, the travel exp. sucks... it all sucks... Do you get it? It all sucks.


here is the interesting part...

Knowing all of that... you frac guys took the job!!! So quit whining.... all jobs have undesirables. LIFE has undesirables... Either quit your frac job or blow your brains out... but for the love of god and all things holy... quit whining about what you agreed to and cannot control!!



Complaining is NOT a special talent for pilots. ALL types of people whine and cry, but not all people whine and cry.

And there are some people that accept responsibility for the choices they make, understand what they can control, take the good with the bad, smile and say something positive.

Professionals offer solutions or minimize the negatives, work around them and press on.

Whiners and cry babies complain about what they cannot control and make life unenjoyable for others.

Which you are guys?


but just to be clear and most importantly.....

the airlines suck.

'kay?

 

[imacdog]

Rez to the rescue! Just get me home from my trip on time, okay sweety?

 

[Jafo73]

Well, if this thread irritates people (like Rez and Razor), then don't read it. If the whining is so irritating, then quite reading it!

 

[acaTerry]

No, I understand... and I agree.

The airlines suck. In fact that is the reason many guys went to the fracs. The airline job sucks, the travel exp. sucks... it all sucks... Do you get it? It all sucks.


here is the interesting part...

Knowing all of that... you frac guys took the job!!! So quit whining.... all jobs have undesirables. LIFE has undesirables... Either quit your frac job or blow your brains out... but for the love of god and all things holy... quit whining about what you agreed to and cannot control!!



Complaining is NOT a special talent for pilots. ALL types of people whine and cry, but not all people whine and cry.

And there are some people that accept responsibility for the choices they make, understand what they can control, take the good with the bad, smile and say something positive.

Professionals offer solutions or minimize the negatives, work around them and press on.

Whiners and cry babies complain about what they cannot control and make life unenjoyable for others.

Which you are guys?


but just to be clear and most importantly.....

the airlines suck.

'kay?

We're not complaining about our jobs. Rather, the means to get to it. I think it would be quite a challenge to find any NJA pilot who hates their job.
That being said, you know we all have to talk about something, and it's just more fun to be riled up while doing it. I don't think that sharing stories of bad airlining is necessarily dragging anyone down about their position as a fractional pilot. It's kind of like out here in PHX from now till October 20th all you hear is "darn its so HOT!!". That doesn't mean I'd rather be in Greenland freezing or something. Just that I opine that 115 degrees is less than desireable at the moment.
I'm the first one to agree with you that people do way too much work on self-pity. We're all lucky to be in such "bad" positions as we are !!!! But sharing a story of something that ticked us off doesn't mean we're genuinely unhappy. Just letting a little steam off and making light of it. At least that's the way I take it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

We're not complaining about our jobs.

I don't DHD for free. Are you on duty or is your first airline flight out of your gateway part of your duty day?

Do you pay for the airline ticket? Seems to be that moving around on the airlines is part of your job description... Does the company obligate you to ride onthe airlines?

Rather, the means to get to it. I think it would be quite a challenge to find any NJA pilot who hates their job.

Part of the job is riding on airlines?

That being said, you know we all have to talk about something, and it's just more fun to be riled up while doing it. I don't think that sharing stories of bad airlining is necessarily dragging anyone down about their position as a fractional pilot.

Well.... maybe it is offensive to the few that are trying to make it work despite the horrible conditions and bleak future. maybe there are a few professionals that filter out the negativity and do the best they can so you can choose to live in over 100 cities.

So what about that? Doesn't the crappy airlines provide a great perk to the frac job? The ability to live in over 100 gateways? If fact didn't the NJA guys negotiate to get that (back) for everyone? Could you have done that without the airlines...

It's kind of like out here in PHX from now till October 20th all you hear is "darn its so HOT!!". That doesn't mean I'd rather be in Greenland freezing or something. Just that I opine that 115 degrees is less than desireable at the moment.
I'm the first one to agree with you that people do way too much work on self-pity. We're all lucky to be in such "bad" positions as we are !!!! But sharing a story of something that ticked us off doesn't mean we're genuinely unhappy. Just letting a little steam off and making light of it. At least that's the way I take it.

So is it ok for guys like Occam to take on the same attitude about the airlines that the frac guys are doing here.... and make your airline experience even more miserable?

Are fellow pilots here... ?

Just asking....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

We're not complaining about our jobs.

I don't DHD for free. Are you on duty or is your first airline flight out of your gateway part of your duty day?

Do you pay for the airline ticket? Seems to be that moving around on the airlines is part of your job description... Does the company obligate you to ride onthe airlines?

Rather, the means to get to it. I think it would be quite a challenge to find any NJA pilot who hates their job.

Part of the job is riding on airlines?

That being said, you know we all have to talk about something, and it's just more fun to be riled up while doing it. I don't think that sharing stories of bad airlining is necessarily dragging anyone down about their position as a fractional pilot.

Well.... maybe it is offensive to the few that are trying to make it work despite the horrible conditions and bleak future. maybe there are a few professionals that filter out the negativity and do the best they can so you can choose to live in over 100 cities.

So what about that? Doesn't the crappy airlines provide a great perk to the frac job? The ability to live in over 100 gateways? If fact didn't the NJA guys negotiate to get that (back) for everyone? Could you have done that without the airlines...

It's kind of like out here in PHX from now till October 20th all you hear is "darn its so HOT!!". That doesn't mean I'd rather be in Greenland freezing or something. Just that I opine that 115 degrees is less than desireable at the moment.
I'm the first one to agree with you that people do way too much work on self-pity. We're all lucky to be in such "bad" positions as we are !!!! But sharing a story of something that ticked us off doesn't mean we're genuinely unhappy. Just letting a little steam off and making light of it. At least that's the way I take it.

So is it ok for guys like Occam to take on the same attitude about the airlines that the frac guys are doing here.... and make your airline experience even more miserable?

Are we fellow pilots here... ?

Just asking....

 

[Guitar rocker]

No, I understand... and I agree.

The airlines suck. In fact that is the reason many guys went to the fracs. The airline job sucks, the travel exp. sucks... it all sucks... Do you get it? It all sucks.


?

Rez, why are you complaining about the airline jobs? You must work for an airline and if it "sucks," why are you even there? Why dont you find something that doesnt suck. You knew that getting into it, right? You knew the pay would suck and schedules would suck (certainly at first) and here you are complaining that it sucks. Its OK for you to say how terrible the airlines are but its not OK for us to say the same? What the hell?

How long ago did you get turned down by a frac? Guess thats the real question.

 

[netjetwife]

....Knowing all of that... you frac guys took the job!!! Knowing that you won't agree with every post here or find every topic interesting you still registered for the board. So quit whining.... Isn't this a case of the pot calling the kettle black... all jobs have undesirables. LIFE has undesirables... Either quit your frac job or blow your brains out... Rez, that to me was the most negative, offensive comment on the entire thread.... but for the love of god and all things holy... quit whining about what you agreed to and cannot control!! If you were to practice what you preach, you wouldn't be posting on a thread you chose to read with posts you don't approve of but can't control--how ironic.

Complaining is NOT a special talent for pilots. ALL types of people whine and cry, but not all people whine and cry. The term "whine and cry" is your own subjective definition of this thread. Others see it as swapping stories and comparing notes. Sharing the good and the bad highlights common ground and thus fosters a sense of community. So there's a positive aspect to what strikes you (personally) as negative. More irony.

And there are some people that accept responsibility for the choices they make, understand what they can control, take the good with the bad, smile and say something positive. Those posting on this thread have probably posted plenty of positive things, too. Out on the line they may even be enthusiastic and positive on a regular basis. It isn't fair to make blanket judgments/direct implications based on a few posts made on this thread.

Professionals offer solutions or minimize the negatives, work around them and press on. Fractional pilots do that constantly on the line. Whiners and cry babies complain about what they cannot control and make life unenjoyable for others. Ironically again, implied insults like this and the horrible suggestion above make this thread unenjoyable for others. Applying your definition fairly, your complaining about their posts renders you a "whiner and a cry baby". Frac pilots commiserating here with one another about a commonly shared frustrating aspect of their job are using a coping strategy that enables them to be professional on the road.

Which you are guys? Condescension and hypocrisy are hardly inspiring examples of a positive attitude. :erm:

Rez, a question if you please. Who do you fly for? If you've posted it before I missed it. I ask so that I can better understand your perspective. Thanks. NJW

 

[netjetwife]

GR, we were typing at the same time. Interesting that we were thinking along the same lines. It ties in with the thread. To wit, it is human nature to enjoy comparing notes and sharing observations. NJW

 

[Guitar rocker]

GR, we were typing at the same time. Interesting that we were thinking along the same lines. It ties in with the thread. To wit, it is human nature to enjoy comparing notes and sharing observations. NJW

I agree. Rez is complaining about his job and the environment in which he works. If he doesnt like it and he knew that is what he signed up for, then find something else but dont cry on everyone elses shoulder. We are only stating that its the public that makes airlining difficult.....be it for work or just travel for pleasure/vacation etc. The difference between Rez/Razor is that they are complaining about work and stating how terrible it truly is...and we are not.

 

[acaTerry]

[/i]

I don't DHD for free. Are you on duty or is your first airline flight out of your gateway part of your duty day?

Do you pay for the airline ticket? Seems to be that moving around on the airlines is part of your job description... Does the company obligate you to ride onthe airlines?




Part of the job is riding on airlines?



Well.... maybe it is offensive to the few that are trying to make it work despite the horrible conditions and bleak future. maybe there are a few professionals that filter out the negativity and do the best they can so you can choose to live in over 100 cities.

So what about that? Doesn't the crappy airlines provide a great perk to the frac job? The ability to live in over 100 gateways? If fact didn't the NJA guys negotiate to get that (back) for everyone? Could you have done that without the airlines...




So is it ok for guys like Occam to take on the same attitude about the airlines that the frac guys are doing here.... and make your airline experience even more miserable?

Are we fellow pilots here... ?

Just asking....

Easy! Easy! You take offense so easily! Yes we are all doing the same thing essentially. But telling us to settle down while you go at us is not making things better.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Well, if this thread irritates people (like Rez and Razor), then don't read it. If the whining is so irritating, then quite reading it!

This thread amuses me. It has very high entertainment value.

"Why can't they...?"

"They should...!"

High comedy!

Quality airline service will return the INSTANT it is demanded. The demand will be expressed simply and clearly, and will start with "$".

Keep the "$-word" in your pocket, and refuse to give it to my boss until you get quality service in return...and all your airline service dreams will come true.

Since you will not do that...

Ha! Ha! Ha!

Thanks for the money, chumps!

P.S. Send more "Terrible Airline Experience" stories! I LOVE reading about things YOU cause!

 

[NJA Capt]

Quality airline service will return the INSTANT it is demanded.

So sad(for you). The passengers did demand it, but your bosses (Airlines) weren't listening. So 20,000 of your premium and first class passengers voted with their wallet and went to private jets.

I LOVE reading about things YOU cause!

How cute. More delusional rhetoric of the passengers causing the airlines' problems.

This thread IS entertaining. It's kinda like the fish in a fishbowl thanking the humans for the entertainment. Good luck in there Nemo. We'll tap on the glass and say hi next time we're in the terminal.

 

[Guitar rocker]

This thread amuses me. It has very high entertainment value.

"Why can't they...?"

"They should...!"

High comedy!

Quality airline service will return the INSTANT it is demanded. The demand will be expressed simply and clearly, and will start with "$".

Keep the "$-word" in your pocket, and refuse to give it to my boss until you get quality service in return...and all your airline service dreams will come true.

Since you will not do that...

Ha! Ha! Ha!

Thanks for the money, chumps!

P.S. Send more "Terrible Airline Experience" stories! I LOVE reading about things YOU cause!

Folks, news flash here. We all heard it first from Razor on FI. We all need to get together and now "demand" that the airlines give us quality service. Should we "demand" that they dont charge us for checked bags now too? Or should we "demand" that we dont want to pay 2 $ for peanuts as well Razor? Laughable! Especially when you fly on a domestic European airline. I flew recently on such an airline and for a flight from LIS to LHR...we got a hot meal and didnt even have to pay for it! Good luck with anything close to that on our airlines.

And according to this poster, so many of these "things" that we have mentioned concerning airlining are things that, "YOU cause!" Typical that someone like Razor here cant even admit that perhaps poor customer service from the airlines today (yes Razor, even your own airline...I know that you dont think its possible but it sure is true) eauqates to a poor airlining experience. But then again, the airlines in no way could be at fault though, right Razor? No, its all our fault that the airlines suck today. Shame on all of us!

 

[Guitar rocker]

Ha! Ha! Ha!

Thanks for the money, chumps!

!

Its sad that people even at the level of just an airline pilot think this way. So much for any appreciation of to those that we call customers. Customers...if it were not for the customer Razor you wouldnt have a job.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Folks, news flash here. We all heard it first from Razor on FI. We all need to get together and now "demand" that the airlines give us quality service. Should we "demand" that they dont charge us for checked bags now too? Or should we "demand" that we dont want to pay 2 $ for peanuts as well Razor? Laughable! Especially when you fly on a domestic European airline. I flew recently on such an airline and for a flight from LIS to LHR...we got a hot meal and didnt even have to pay for it! Good luck with anything close to that on our airlines.

And according to this poster, so many of these "things" that we have mentioned concerning airlining are things that, "YOU cause!" Typical that someone like Razor here cant even admit that perhaps poor customer service from the airlines today (yes Razor, even your own airline...I know that you dont think its possible but it sure is true) eauqates to a poor airlining experience. But then again, the airlines in no way could be at fault though, right Razor? No, its all our fault that the airlines suck today. Shame on all of us!

I didn't think you'd understand...and I guessed correctly. Thanks for being charmingly predictable!

Until you can show me one one-hundreth of a cent improvement in RASM due to superior customer service, the blame rest squarely on the shoulders of the consumers.

Next time you're near the Fountain of Knowledge, try drinking this time, instead of just gargling.

Or for a better understanding, read some Adam Smith...for retention this time!

 

[Guitar rocker]

I didn't think you'd understand...and I guessed correctly. Thanks for being charmingly predictable!

Until you can show me one one-hundreth of a cent improvement in RASM due to superior customer service, the blame rest squarely on the shoulders of the consumers.

Next time you're near the Fountain of Knowledge, try drinking this time, instead of just gargling.

Or for a better understanding, read some Adam Smith...for retention this time!

So, here you are telling us that we should just commute on a G550 to work rather than using the airlines, then you tell us, "thanks for the money chumps!" and now we are at RASM. Man, you just are all over the place, arent you?

I heard that you infact were at the "fountain of knowledge" and some let you cut infront of them to quickly try and make you somewhat smarter than what you have to offer us today. Guess that didnt help out any, uh?

"Thanks for the money chumps".....wonder how NW would feel that a captain of theirs thinks so highly of his bread and butter? If they are like me, they too wouldnt think very highly of this shining beacon like individual.

 

[Occam's Razor]

So, here you are telling us that we should just commute on a G550 to work rather than using the airlines, then you tell us, "thanks for the money chumps!" and now we are at RASM. Man, you just are all over the place, arent you?

Listen to me, young man! You log off this instant, or I'm gonna tell your Dad you've been pretending to be an adult on his Web Forum while he's taking a nap! Now get back to your room and keep practicing your multiplication tables! You're never going to make it through the 3rd grade 'til you learn 'em!

1. It was a G650. (different model)
2. It was sarcasm, Einstein! [Psst! To help you, I'll post sarcasm in blue so you can tell without hurting your brain]
3. You don't have an option. You don't make enough money. Since you're unwilling to expre$$ your dissatisfaction with the airlines with your feet...you WILL give me the money...chump!

"Thanks for the money chumps".....wonder how NW would feel that a captain of theirs thinks so highly of his bread and butter? If they are like me, they too wouldnt think very highly of this shining beacon like individual.

1. They are like you...they don't think either.
2. Put down the Strat and read a book. Start with "The Wealth of Nations" by Adam Smith. Pay particular attention to "market forces" and the concept of an "invisible hand". (No, not your Prom date! "Hand" is a methaphor...)
3. NW knows how I feel about our level of customer service. They don't seem to care. It's as good as everyone else's, so as long as you, consumer boy, aren't bright enough to figure out how to change the way they treat you...cough up the money, chump!

 

[CA1900]

3. NW knows how I feel about our level of customer service. They don't seem to care. It's as good as everyone else's...

You couldn't be more wrong. There's a reason I route all my NWA frequent-flier miles to Continental.

 

[Occam's Razor]

You couldn't be more wrong. There's a reason I route all my NWA frequent-flier miles to Continental.

We'll recover, Mr. Gates.