I thought riding on airline could not get any worse

[imacdog]

and who, pray tell, gave him that idea?

Not that it matters - those who can afford private jet travel will pay whatever it takes to avoid the airlines. I would too if i could afford it.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Riiiight, more seats, less legroom, surely FA"s, overcrowded overheads, no more ontime departures or arrivals, long lines at checkin, long times to wait for baggage, cancellations....

Should I continue?

Not really sure what you mean. Other than United and AA's economy plus seating going bye bye, most airlines have maintained or increased the legroom.

I know MD-80s used to seat 161 pax at most airlines, now they only have 150 seats in the US, and Midwest Airlines has only 132 seats in some of theirs.
I'm can't speak for all other airplane types, but I'm almost 6' 2" and 260 lbs and I have absolutely no problem with the legroom in most airlines. In fact it's only the seat width that bothers me most, especially in RJ's. Overcrowded overheads are the fault of the passengers, not the airlines; they surely haven't decreased the size of the overhead bins and they haven't increased allowable size of carryons.

Ontime departures and arrivals change constantly, some years are better, some are worse. The same goes for lost luggage. Since I was a ticket agent for CAL in 2000, most airlines have voluntarily raised their liability for lost luggage from $1500 to over $2500. In the 1990's it used to be less than $1000.
Check-in line wait times have decreased significantly too thanks to online check-in and e-ticket kiosks.

Ticket prices have also decreased significantly from 10 years ago. They're just now starting to increase again.
I'm sure some of the FA's are surly, but I can't really blame them when you have pax complaining all day long for no good reason.

I've found that most passengers will complain about anything when it comes to the airlines, even if there's no basis for it.

 

[gunfyter]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/15/washington/15air.htm

Highlights:

A tax increase on the Rich! How out of character.

 

[imacdog]

Check-in line wait times have decreased significantly too thanks to online check-in and e-ticket kiosks.

Yep right up until you have a problem with your ticket or the machines are down. Then you're effed in the A trying to get an actual human to help you out.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Biz jets are quieter than 121 jets.

Doesn't matter. Proximity to the noisemaker matters. Know of any curfews that affect bizjets at non-121 airports?

On the last point... not as long as money calls the shots and last I checked... money calls the shots.

Actually, We The People call the shots (I looked it up!). That means SMO can pass an ordinance restricting bizjets regardless of how loudly the "money" was talking. That means states can pile-on taxes and fees...and it means people squawking about "rich folk" not getting wanded at Signature is going to result in you barefoot and grumbling on your way to work.

Don't think for a second the ATA and other groups aren't aware of what's happening.

 

[ProFracPilot]

That means SMO can pass an ordinance restricting bizjets regardless of how loudly the "money" was talking.

They can pass all the ordinances they want. That doesn't mean they'll keep their restrictions. Unfortunately for the City of Santa Monica, they ate from the public trough of FAA Airport Improvement Funds. The acceptance of these funds came with performance guarantees - one is the public access to the aiport for a fixed period of time (25 years?). Also, the city is attempting to couch a noise issue in a safety restriction - basically mixing apples and oranges. I don't believe the city will prevail in the short term.

Don't think for a second the ATA and other groups aren't aware of what's happening.

Oh, they're certainly all part of the well orchestrated attack on general aviation. The legacy carriers have failed to properly manage their business for decades. They're not getting the windfall they'd like from the government, so why not attack the (perceived) deep pockets? It doesn't matter whether or not user fees would equitable in the overall picture of air travel. This user fee debate is right out of the liberals playbook of legalizing wealth transfer, and unfairly imposing taxes.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Blame who you wish...it's gonna happen.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Doesn't matter. Proximity to the noisemaker matters. Know of any curfews that affect bizjets at non-121 airports?

This is true, turbo-props can and have set these off before.

Actually, We The People call the shots (I looked it up!).

Yes we do! (Right after Corporate America which is dumping millions into lobbying efforts for their interests)

That means SMO can pass an ordinance restricting bizjets regardless of how loudly the "money" was

Not when they're receiving federal money. Yes, SMO did pass an ordinance, but the FAA got a court ordered injunction to block it.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Yes, SMO did pass an ordinance, but the FAA got a court ordered injunction to block it.

Hooray! The threat is defeated! Now you don't have to worry about TSA-creep, noise/aircraft restrictions, or fees and taxes!

Move along now. Nothing to see here.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Razor, your insight here is priceless. But you're really needed back over on the Majors board. Not that you're wanted anywhere.

 

[RTRHD]

Hooray! The threat is defeated! Now you don't have to worry about TSA-creep, noise/aircraft restrictions, or fees and taxes!

Move along now. Nothing to see here.

I pissed off airline employee......Thats rare

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Yep right up until you have a problem with your ticket or the machines are down. Then you're effed in the A trying to get an actual human to help you out.

So e-ticket machines are convenient and they shorten wait times in line significantly (I can't remember the last time I waited more than 15 minutes in line, I think it was over 10 years ago), but you're still gonna complain about e-ticket machines because one time out of a hundred you might have a problem with your ticket??? If you want it your way all the time, I suggest you charter your own airplane. It will only cost you about $6000 and it still won't guarantee no problems, but at least you won't have to fly on the airlines.

In my last job, which I left last September, I travelled on airline tickets about 5 times a month. I travelled so much that I got 4 free round trip frequent flyer tickets in one year. Actually, make that 5, I forgot about the free AA ticket I haven't used yet.
Only one time did I ever have a problem with my ticket. I had it fixed with very little wait and I checked in at the counter just fine.

Like I said, some people will complain about anything when it comes to the airlines; and for no good reason.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Razor, your insight here is priceless. But you're really needed back over on the Majors board. Not that you're wanted anywhere.

Thanks! Silly me...for some reason I thought it appropriate for an airline pilot to comment on a airline topic. If the thread topic was merely a clever ruse to dupe unsuspecting pilots into a discussion where most participants are blissfully unaware of what the future holds for them...well done!

 

[Occam's Razor]

I pissed off airline employee......Thats rare

Proper sentence construction...rarer still.

And for the record, I'm not pissed. I'm amused.

Thanks for helping.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Doesn't matter. Proximity to the noisemaker matters. Know of any curfews that affect bizjets at non-121 airports?



Actually, We The People call the shots (I looked it up!). That means SMO can pass an ordinance restricting bizjets regardless of how loudly the "money" was talking. That means states can pile-on taxes and fees...and it means people squawking about "rich folk" not getting wanded at Signature is going to result in you barefoot and grumbling on your way to work.

Don't think for a second the ATA and other groups aren't aware of what's happening.

Dearest Occam,

On point one... yes, I do. Several... too many to list actually. Most are driven my proximity of the airport to housing and would be in place regardless of the operating rules followed.

On the second point... I'm not defending or attacking "We The People". I simply know that those with money would sooner wipe their ass with those words than be inconvenienced by those who don't have the same options they enjoy. I see it every day I am at work. "That is soooo 200 years ago" is the attitude.

Again, not defending it or attacking it. If you really take a look at how things work out in this country, it's towards and for big money. Every time.

The ban in SMO, ironically, is designed to affect the size of the aircraft, not the loudness. It limits aircraft based on Approach Category so a CE560 (with it's loud noisemakers) can come in all day but a CE750 with quieter Rolls Royce engines is prohibited.

Funny stuff. Oh! And the FAA has overruled the SMO city council ban anyway so the entire example is moot.