I thought riding on airline could not get any worse

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Uh, no. No airlines - probably not 100 bases. I knew what I was getting into with NetJets when I got hired and I think it says something that our biggest complaints are crew food and having to airline. I personally try to look on the bright side of having to do it. It reinforces my decision not to even apply for a 121 airline and brings us new customers every day!

Consider that you are, like other frac pilots on this thread,... missing the point....

Take NJA for example....

A typical 7 day tour has 2-4 airline legs on it. (accurate?)

If the airlines did not exist.. how would that effect the frac biz model? Or how depended is the frac model on the airlines?

In addition, the 100 gateways had value to the NJA pilots... that is why the union got it back...

Finally, without 100 gateways the job wouldn't be attractive to as many pilots... Also, it allows NJA management to select from a larger pool of applicants instead of, for example, the 'best' that Northern Jersey (TEB) has to offer....

As much as some, not all, despise airline travel as part of the required frac job description, it is significant to the frac biz model. It is also significant to the employment desires and quality of life for so many frac pilots....

Without the airlines.... you wouldn't have a job.

If someone gave you guys (on this thread) $100 you'd complain it was all in $1's....




Disclaimer: No issue here with the frac pilots, biz model, lifestyle, frac industry, etc... just those who hate the airlines yet need and require the airlines to provide for their livelihood. Regardless I am sure Occam will do his best to get you there quickly and safely so you can pay your house note.

 

[Diesel]

A typical 7 day tour has 2-4 airline legs on it. (accurate?)

If the airlines did not exist.. how would that effect the frac biz model? Or how depended is the frac model on the airlines?

In addition, the 100 gateways had value to the NJA pilots... that is why the union got it back...

Finally, without 100 gateways the job wouldn't be attractive to as many pilots... Also, it allows NJA management to select from a larger pool of applicants instead of, for example, the 'best' that Northern Jersey (TEB) has to offer....

As much as some, not all, despise airline travel as part of the required frac job description, it is significant to the frac biz model. It is also significant to the employment desires and quality of life for so many frac pilots....

Without the airlines.... you wouldn't have a job.

If someone gave you guys (on this thread) $100 you'd complain it was all in $1's....

Without the airliners we wouldn't have jobs? you're kidding right. Without airliners we'd have so much work we couldn't handle it all. Who is going to fly the rest of the exec's that are still flying the airlines? Or NJ would just continue to move pilots around on their own airplanes.

Your example is not only ridiculous, its retarded. I'm now stupider for reading it. I think the whole of FI just got stupider, and even the regional threads are shaking their heads.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

On avg. how many times per tour do you airline, including to/from your gateway?

 

[imacdog]

No frac guy on this thread wants to address reality.....

No airlines= no frac job.

Not really, we would just base our aircraft in specific locations with their crews. We wouldn't have the flexibility we have now to bid any aircraft out of any base but our company would certainly continue to operate.

 

[sweptwingz]

It is important for you to understand that without the airlines, the fractionals will simply use their own aircraft to move crews.

Proving runs for inter-line crew transport have already been flown by at least one fractional.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

On avg. how many times per tour do you airline, including to/from your gateway?

 

[sweptwingz]

There is no "average". I've had plenty of tours where I kept my plane the entire tour, plenty where I did not.

Guys at company MX hub bases often fly their plane in and out and don't even see an airline. I used to be based at one. There are simply too many variables for a standard answer.

 

[gunfyter]

Without airlines there would be no economy...

 

[Diesel]

Without airlines there would be no economy...

He doesn't want that logic brought into this argument.

 

[jonjuan]

Without Bernoulli, there would be no Duck Dodgers.

 

[fischman]

On avg. how many times per tour do you airline, including to/from your gateway?

Once out. Once in.

BTW, I agree with diesel.

If I never rode an airliner again, I'd die a happy man.

 

[old*art]

"If someone gave you guys (on this thread) $100 you'd complain it was all in $1's...."

He is correct about this !!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Line Pilot: You want answers?
Frac Pilot: I think I'm entitled to them.
Line Pilot: You want answers?
Frac Pilot: I want the truth!

Line Pilot: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has Air Lines. And those Air Lines have to flown by Line Pilots. Who's gonna do it? You, CS guy? You, Mr. NJA guy? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep in the middle seat and you curse the Air Lines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that the middle seat, while tragic, probably generates revenue. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, drives revenue...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at HPN and TEB, you want me on that Airliner. You need me on that Airliner.
We use words like gate checked bags, $5 snack boxes, oversold seats...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent wondering why we're here. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a Frac pilot who works and sleeps in the middle seat of the very Air Liner I fly, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you fluff your pillow and go back to sleep. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
Frac Pilot: Did you switch us to the middle seat?
Line Pilot: (quietly) I did the job you sent me to do.
Frac Pilot: Did you switch to the middle seat?
Line Pilot: You're goddamn right I did!!

 

[gunfyter]

Your honor I move to recess and proceed with an Article 32. The witness has rights.

Line Pilot: You want answers?
Frac Pilot: I think I'm entitled to them.
Line Pilot: You want answers?
Frac Pilot: I want the truth!

Line Pilot: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has Air Lines. And those Air Lines have to flown by Line Pilots. Who's gonna do it? You, CS guy? You, Mr. NJA guy? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep in the middle seat and you curse the Air Lines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that the middle seat, while tragic, probably generates revenue. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, drives revenue...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at HPN and TEB, you want me on that Airliner. You need me on that Airliner.
We use words like gate checked bags, $5 snack boxes, oversold seats...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent wondering why we're here. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a Frac pilot who works and sleeps in the middle seat of the very Air Liner I fly, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you fluff your pillow and go back to sleep. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
Frac Pilot: Did you switch us to the middle seat?
Line Pilot: (quietly) I did the job you sent me to do.
Frac Pilot: Did you switch to the middle seat?
Line Pilot: You're goddamn right I did!!

 

[CA1900]

Otherwise, I suggest you fluff your pillow and go back to sleep.

Can't. You took the pillows away. :laugh:

 

[glasspilot]

Very funny, except the part about "who's gonna do it? You Mr. CS? You Mr. NJA guy?"

Most of us HAVE done it and know it blows. Blows big donkey dongs. And the only thing worse than flying for the airlines is riding on them as a pax.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Most of us HAVE done it and know it blows.

Yeah, we bitched about it AND did something: Voted with our feet.

Found this entertaining

http://humorvice.blogspot.com/2007/12/funny-commercial-airline.html

 

[Ultra Grump]

No frac guy on this thread wants to address reality.....

No airlines= no frac job.

Reality? Interesting jump in logic to go from "riding on the airlines sucks" to "airlines shouldn't exist." Can you point me to the post that said that?

If you don't like the airline experience then look in the mirror and face the The Decider.... Only he can can make you ride the airlines...

Bush can't make me ride the airlines, and what's he doing in my mirror anyway? :nuts:

 

[CopilotDoug]

...and what's he doing in my mirror anyway? :nuts:

That's not a mirror...it's the TV.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Line Pilot: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has Air Lines. And those Air Lines have to flown by Line Pilots. Who's gonna do it? You, CS guy? You, Mr. NJA guy? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep in the middle seat and you curse the Air Lines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that the middle seat, while tragic, probably generates revenue. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, drives revenue...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at HPN and TEB, you want me on that Airliner. You need me on that Airliner.
We use words like gate checked bags, $5 snack boxes, oversold seats...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent wondering why we're here. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a Frac pilot who works and sleeps in the middle seat of the very Air Liner I fly, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you fluff your pillow and go back to sleep. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
Frac Pilot: Did you switch us to the middle seat?
Line Pilot: (quietly) I did the job you sent me to do.
Frac Pilot: Did you switch to the middle seat?
Line Pilot: You're goddamn right I did!![/FONT][/SIZE]

Well played, brother!

:beer:

 

[netjetwife]

Very creative version, Rez. It made me laugh.
CA1900, your come back was hilarious...
Can't. You took the pillows away. Shack!

 

[NJA Capt]

No frac guy on this thread wants to address reality.....

No airlines= no frac job.

Rez, you have been pushing this garbage for a long time and it is completely naive.

The fractionals do not need the airlines to survive. Sure we airline. Not because we have to, but because it is easier. Airline pilots have FAR more to fear from loss of service than frac pilots. Most of us just show up at the local airport and report to work. If airlines went away we would have other options (that airlines don't have) like ferrying the plane back home after a trip. At the worst we would have to realign our bases and maybe drive a little farther to work.

If anything, the airlines should be darn thankful that the frax are buying your tickets. I would estimate that NJA alone buys over 200,000 full fare tickets per year for its pilots.

By the way...The company wanted to centralize bases and bring the planes back to roost at night. The pilots negotiated it away and opened 100 bases which gave you business.
You're welcome.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I addressed "reality" in flying Part 121 for 5 years and said... "Hmmm. Life is too short for all of this reality crap. Show me the biz jets!!!"


It's nice now.

Did you upgrade me to 1st yet? I am a Gold Medallion after all? Screw the aisle seat.

 

[NJA Capt]

Son, I live in a world that requires me to fly. And those trips have to be flown by men with planes.
Who’s gonna do it? You Capt Regional? You, Capt. Legacy Carrier?
I have a greater Wealth than you can possibly fathom. You weep for bailouts and you curse the Fractionals. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Fractionals, meet our needs. And my existence, while incomprehensible to you, Is normal to me…You don’t want the truth. Because we talk about you parties, we want you to fail We buy more shares when you fail.
We use words like Net Worth, Lifestyle, Image…we use these words as the backbone to a life spent earning something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very industries I provide, then questions the manner in which I spend my money! I’d rather you just went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you step back from the keyboard and get a life. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you’re entitled to! ”

Col Nathan Jessup (Ret). Current NetJets Owner

 

[FurloughedAgain]

This thread is pure theater popcorn. I love it and i'm neither airline or fractional. Now if someone could just conclude the thread with an epic finale roast of PCL_128 I will applaud loudly and with genuine enthusiasm.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Please provide a cost analysis of the Fracs using and not using the airlines in dollars per year...

 

[glasspilot]

Ensure that cost analysis includes everybody who flies has to fly fracs on the "NO Airline" model.

If there were no airlines then everybody would have to fly on us. The military, business, EVERYONE. Some how I'm thinking that would benefit the fracs.

 

[Semore Butts]

Don't care about this thread

Its been beaten pretty good.

But for you guitar players.

Get off here and go to "thegearpage".

Everything under the sun on "jammin".

I thought I was on the wrong site for a minute!

One of my guitars is an ES-Artist (like a 335) It's really a nice "AX".

Take care.

 

[gunfyter]

Of course... there will always be airlines.... If the current ones go out of business ... new ones will replace...

Even if that means a govt takeover where all airline employees become Civil Service.

The mail will get through....

 

[AA717driver]

Why is Rez defending the airlines?

Airline management has made it impossible for the employees to do the jobs they were hired to do.

How can a FA make a broken down middle seat with 31" pitch more comfortable?

How can they give you a blanket and pillow that they don't have? How can they clean the blanket that is NEVER scheduled to be cleaned because it costs money?

How can they give you food they don't have and aren't supposed to have because it costs money?

How can the pilots push back on time because the airline doesn't stock the $5 part they need--ANYWHERE IN THE SYSTEM?

How can the pilots push back with no tug? (The tug has been broken for two weeks and they're sharing the working tug with 4 other gates.)

How can the airplane push back with no FO? (The FO is coming from another flight, having been reassigned--AGAIN into his day off as his 3 day turns into a 4 day.)

How can the Airline Management relax in this day and age? Why they go to their beach house in the Caymans or their 10,000 sq. ft. house in Beaver Creek. How do they get there? On a frac. That's how THEY deal with the stress.

Airline people have no business defending the condition at the airlines. We didn't make it this way and we have no power to change it.

Customers have to vote with their feet if they don't like the way they are treated. TC