How to Earn Respect as an Airline Pilot

[PCL_128]

It's not condescension, it's a dose of reality. You just don't like to hear the truth because it doesn't fit with your preconceived notions.

 

[Saabslime]

5. Don't sit at the gate and yawn in public. If you
are tired stay in the crew room and rest until
your flight.

I'm a human being not a f-ng robot. If I need to yawn I'm damn sure not going to worry about if I'm doing it in front of passengers or not. Personally I think all this garbage about looking/being professional and putting yourself up on a plateau in front of the traveling public stems mostly from a lack of self esteem.

 

[Quack]

Professionalism, what's that? It's all but lost in an industry of furloughs, pay cuts, and cheaper is better. If companies want their pilots to be the most professional on the block, then why don't they start hiring pofessional pilots. We hire people at the regional level that may have just received their drivers licencse a couple years ago, have no college degree, and their concept of professionalism is simply showing up. As the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for".

 

[notajetpilot]

I just want to add that wearing a backpack is not ok. What can you need so bad that you can't fit it into your overnight bag.

 

[Aubie]

notajetpilot -

Put an English grammar text in your bag. Questions are supposed to end with a "?" symbol.

Man, I wore my hat into the interview to show how professional I was...why didn't I get hired?

 

[trainer8]

It's not condescension, it's a dose of reality. You just don't like to hear the truth because it doesn't fit with your preconceived notions.

PCL, let's keep in context. Are you not the one on these boards who many times convincingly pumps up ALPA, but yet you seem unwilling to adhere to it's own CoE when dealing with confrontation those who disagree with you?

Yes, truth is confrontational. Truth demands confrontation.

"Do unto others as you would have them do to you." There is some REAL truth.

The context of these posts about ALPA vs. USAPA has gone beyond "I disagree with you, here is why..." It has degenerated in to name calling and out and out juvenile posts. You're a current/former ALPA officer, right? If so, you not only represent the profession as a flight officer, you represent ALPA, as does PHX and others who regularly post here. I disagree with your post(s). All I expect is for you to respond professionally. I would think as a strong supporter of ALPA, you would excercise the ideals of the ALPA CoE. That's all. We disagree...and walk away to come back another day...maybe even find common ground.

Example: "AWA gets a windfall from Nic." (The statement is rhetorical for the context of this post, I'm not looking for a thread hijack.)

It can be simple to respond to the above statement. Back it up with factual data and refute or agree. Keep it accurate, stay away from personal denigration. If a person can't, they should say so, and STOP. If they sense that their opposition has a character flaw, they should articulate it professionally. Instead of "you're a ________, I would suggest that they should just state that they understand the perspective, but respectfully, it would be inappropriate to comment further without a bad comment.

If a person really senses that they have the moral high ground, they have nothing to fear. If they really believe that the AAA pilots are wrong, for example, that will play out. If they (AAA) are wrong, if everything they (AWA) state is true, then Nic will stand. That is what I expect from a professioanal ALPA aviator, not name calling and condescending comments.

Years ago I worked for a carrier who, during contract negotiations, the management team made some bad choices that negatively affected the pilot group pay. I worked with a fellow Captain who vowed he was gonna "rip off the company" by some unprofessional tactics to recoup his pay loss. I commented to him, "Are you not doing the same thing you despise your own employer for? Are you not lowering yourself to their level?" I told him the carrier would not survive if it conducted itself that way, anyway.

Different scenario, but similar to the USAPA/ALPA/AWA/USAIRWAYS situation. I think it will play out, but the pilots will either work together, or work separately, the latter, I believe to have grave consequenses.

T8

 

[trainer8]

Professionalism, what's that? It's all but lost in an industry of furloughs, pay cuts, and cheaper is better. If companies want their pilots to be the most professional on the block, then why don't they start hiring pofessional pilots. We hire people at the regional level that may have just received their drivers licencse a couple years ago, have no college degree, and their concept of professionalism is simply showing up. As the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for".

Then you have the opportunity to demonstrate to them what a professional pilot is. How's it going?

T8

 

[PCL_128]

PCL, let's keep in context. Are you not the one on these boards who many times convincingly pumps up ALPA, but yet you seem unwilling to adhere to it's own CoE when dealing with confrontation those who disagree with you?

I do adhere to the CoE. Your entire premise is false.

 

[trainer8]

I do adhere to the CoE. Your entire premise is false.

I do adhere to the CoE. Your entire premise is false.

An Air Line Pilot will accept the responsibilities as well as the rewards of command and will at all times so conduct himself both on duty and off as to instill and merit the confidence and respect of his crew, his fellow employees, and his associates within the profession.


An Air Line Pilot will conduct his affairs with other members of the profession and with ALPA in such a manner as to bring credit to the profession and ALPA as well as to himself.

• He will not falsely or maliciously injure the professional reputation, prospects, or job security of another pilot, yet if he knows of professional incompetence or conduct detrimental to the profession or to ALPA, he will not shrink from revealing this to the proper authorities within ALPA, so that the weak member may be brought up to the standards demanded, or ALPA and the profession alike may be rid of one unworthy to share its rewards.​

So, in your posts with N1N2 where you make condecending comments about him not attending BOD meetings because he is "to busy watching American Idol" (http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=110555&page=5), which part of the above CoE are you adhering to? Is it the bullet point? Is this how you bring others up to the "standards demanded?"

T8

 

[FirstMate]

For all the hat Nazi's: nothing looks more stupid than an over-sized hat that swallows your head and makes your ears flop down...if you're going to wear that damn thing get one that fits.

Like someone else mentioned before - the short sleeve shirts with a tie is another major faux pas. Kinda like the attire of a guy working in a position of authority similar to that of manager at a local grocery store or Wal-Mart.

 

[BOYCAPTAIN]

I just want to add that wearing a backpack is not ok. What can you need so bad that you can't fit it into your overnight bag.

what about all that hair gel????????

 

[PCL_128]

So, in your posts with N1N2 where you make condecending comments about him not attending BOD meetings because he is "to busy watching American Idol" (http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=110555&page=5), which part of the above CoE are you adhering to? Is it the bullet point? Is this how you bring others up to the "standards demanded?"

T8

The comments weren't condescending, they were factual. The fact of the matter is, far too many pilots are preoccupied with things like golf and American Idol. These things seem to take a higher priority for them over things that affect their career. If you consider telling it how it is to be "condescending," then that's your prerogative, but it's not accurate.

 

[Jimmy C. Corn]

If you consider telling it how it is to be "condescending," then that's your prerogative, but it's not accurate.

From what I can tell after reading some of your posts, you seem to confuse "telling it how it is" with "standing in harsh judgment of those who don't agree with you."

 

[trainer8]

The comments weren't condescending, they were factual. The fact of the matter is, far too many pilots are preoccupied with things like golf and American Idol. These things seem to take a higher priority for them over things that affect their career. If you consider telling it how it is to be "condescending," then that's your prerogative, but it's not accurate.

So you know for a fact that he was indeed watching American Idol, instead of attending the BOD...factual...your words, not mine. You know this for sure? Or you just generalize the incident and say something trivial to make a point...for far too many pilots.....????

No. I don't buy it. You are an ALPA member. You represent the Pilot's Union. You said you adhere to the code. But your posts on this site don't reveal that.

I encourage you and other ALPA members to "walk the walk, not just talk the talk."

T8

 

[Abernathy]

Are some of you actually convinced that we get paid pennies and US Air pilots are flying A330s across the pond for 160/hr because some people don't shine their shoes? Or that we'll get more and "take it back" if we do?

Get real. Complain about management, deregulation, LCCs, right wing/lassez-fair capitalist judges/gov't, economy, oil, etc, but don't get delirious on us and start blaming it on pilots who don't want to wear a clumsy hat or forget to iron a crease into their pants.

And will someone please hold a tutorial on how to spell "privilege".. If I have to see another "priveledge"....


Abernathy

 

[PCL_128]

So you know for a fact that he was indeed watching American Idol, instead of attending the BOD...

I know for a fact that he was somewhere other than the BOD because he said so himself. He had an opportunity to see his union in action, just as every other member does, but passed it up. Fact.

You are an ALPA member. You represent the Pilot's Union. You said you adhere to the code. But your posts on this site don't reveal that.

Correction: I used to represent the Association. I'm no longer a rep, and am actually on inactive status. As for the code, as I said, my posts are not in conflict with the CoE.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Retire at 60.
















Flame suit on.
Cheers.

 

[trainer8]

I know for a fact that he was somewhere other than the BOD because he said so himself. He had an opportunity to see his union in action, just as every other member does, but passed it up. Fact.

Correction: I used to represent the Association. I'm no longer a rep, and am actually on inactive status. As for the code, as I said, my posts are not in conflict with the CoE.

No...you said he was watching American Idol. You said your comments were "factual." If they are factual, they are true, and he was watching American Idol instead of attending the BOD. If you meant he was "somewhere other than the BOD" instead of attending the BOD, than the "American Idol" comment injected to the argument was condescending. You can't have it both ways.

T8

 

[PCL_128]

The American Idol comment was an example of the myriad things that uninvolved pilots prioritize above their union and their careers. If you take it as condescension, then you're a little too sensitive.

 

[trainer8]

The American Idol comment was an example of the myriad things that uninvolved pilots prioritize above their union and their careers. If you take it as condescension, then you're a little too sensitive.

But your comment was directed directly to N1N2, not to a myriad of pilots. You specifically said he was watching American Idol and playing golf...the context was him, N1N2, specifically. You said, "Why didn't you fly out to Vegas to observe democracy in action? Too busy playing golf or watching American Idol while guys like me were out there on our days off?" The question was rhetorical and condescending.

You said, "I adhere to the CoE."

T8

 

[PCL_128]

You said, "I adhere to the CoE."

Yep, and I stand by that. We gonna keep going around in circles on this? You view something as being condescending that simply wasn't. Arguing about your perceptions all night isn't going to do us any good. If you choose to perceive condescension, that's your business.

 

[trainer8]

Yep, and I stand by that. We gonna keep going around in circles on this? You view something as being condescending that simply wasn't. Arguing about your perceptions all night isn't going to do us any good. If you choose to perceive condescension, that's your business.

Nope...I'll move on...I'll let the evidence speak for itself.

C'ya

T8

 

[pilotyip]

pilots round in circles, my what a concept!

 

[Bruno82]

What's an example of another profession of which the professionals were and continue to gain and keep respect?

 

[Flybet3]

How to earn respect?

Be 5'6 with a 10 inch d**** and wear tight pants with your pilot suit.

Seriously, gets me alot of respect.

 

[GoFaster]

respect?

If we want respect, our union should set a minimum salary for our most junior new hires. It is my opinion that is should be 50k to start either as the copilot of a 1900 or 747. THE union should not sign another contract where the pay is below that level....period.

Oh and the guy is right about wearing the uniform and running on time.



gofaster

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Thank God for that 'unfortunality' Rez...

Of course I'm assuming you subscribe to the mantra "Conform or be cast out..."

Room for everyone I suspect, plus it's just a job.

I was making an observation.... have you considered objectivity when reading?

In addition, it is just a job when it is not a struggle. Many of us have been struggling for over seven years. Have you empathy?

Easily done...

The overwelming display of a condescending attitude toward individuals whom disagree with you...which purveys the many posts, is an indication of your/PCL's professionalism...or perhaps, the lack of it.

As for a personal "canon" I'll stick with "do unto others as you would have them do to you." If you stick with that "canon," you won't go wrong.

On this site, we often cut off our fellow aviatior's nose...then ask him to smell a rose. It doesn't work.

T8

Also consider you are talking about a moniker message board. Who is T8? Who is PCL128?

Can there be a better reply from guys like me and PCL128? Sure... I don't speak for PCL, but I'll work on it.... That is all I can control....


Keep in mind that a poster starts a thread about professionalism and guys like PCL and I defend the notion of professionalism.

Have you considered that by chiding us, you motivate the anti establishment guys? Do you allow free choice over ones interpretation of professionalism but not the defence of it?

That is the real threat: Guys like PCL do Walk the Walk. He spends about 10 guys worth of time trying to make this profession better. His time would be better spent defending this profession against gov't and management, but it is spent defending against our own.


How'd you respond if one of your own in your own house (aka our profession) trashed it. How do you reason with someone who wants to fight the only methodology that has a concern for thier welfare?

How do you fight ignorance and apathy on a moniker message board all while concerned the masses will believe that doing nothing is an acceptable path?

If you are aware of the youngest generation, this pilot gig is just that... something to try out and if it gets too uncomfortable they will bail. 20-somethings are doing this in every industry... it is not exclusive to airline pilots...

Guys like PCL have done more to defend and promote the COE than most of us.... yet he gets a "smackdown". Have you considered that you've devalued the profession by critiqing a defender?

number one rule of a professional and above board critique....

Offer a compliment before a complaint.....

 

[pilotyip]

UAW method of raising wages

If we want respect, our union should set a minimum salary for our most junior new hires. It is my opinion that is should be 50k to start either as the copilot of a 1900 or 747. THE union should not sign another contract where the pay is below that level....period.

Oh and the guy is right about wearing the uniform and running on time.



gofaster

Here is how the UAW does it; they reach a deal with a single company, then go to the next company and say match it or you will be shutdown and all the new cars being sold will be built someplace else, then they go to the next company and repeat. When the auto companies where rolling in money it was a good deal for all. But over the last 30 years it has eliminated 70% of the union jobs, gave great raise to non-union companies, and now it is concession time. Now the Airlines could follow the same path as the UAW and it would be great for 30% of those who still had jobs. This is also great for the non-ALPA airlines that would fly all the passengers when the ALPA pilots were on strike.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Here is how the UAW does it; they reach a deal with a single company, then go to the next company and say match it or you will be shutdown and all the new cars being sold will be built someplace else, then they go to the next company and repeat. When the auto companies where rolling in money it was a good deal for all. But over the last 30 years it has eliminated 70% of the union jobs, gave great raise to non-union companies, and now it is concession time. Now the Airlines could follow the same path as the UAW and it would be great for 30% of those who still had jobs. This is also great for the non-ALPA airlines that would fly all the passengers when the ALPA pilots were on strike.

Again..... you neglect to discuss the RLA.

 

[pilotyip]

true

Again..... you neglect to discuss the RLA.

But the results are the same if you put your company in a non-competitive position through work action, you will be at a disadvantage in the market.