How is Life at Gojets?

[Melfly]

So let me get this right for all of you GoJets pilots defending your current employer, how are you any different then Freedom Airlines?

I know, I know there is a lot of good ATA, Champion, and etc furloughed people there, however I am not biting.

I am not saying that anyone is a scab by any means at Gojets, but I feel the rational on some of your parts is that 'it was the only airline hiring so I went there.'

Which leads my to believe if any airlines striked right now and they were the only ones hiring, that potentially a lot of pilots would go to that airline and work.

I feel that by ruining a pilot groups bargaining power by working for an alter ego carrier damages ALL pilot groups. Now you can give me a million quotes from legal documents and blah blah blah but please answer these question, what was managements exacts intentions when they developed GoJets? Did Gojets negatively effect the TSA pilot group? Is it true that TSA furloughed pilots directly after Gojets was developed?

TSA is none for being horrible to their pilots group (ie the firing of union leaders). They don't play by the books and Gojets was just that.

I would like to quote a freedom air A lister "but I had a mortgage, so I did what I had to do." Well you know what, so did the MESA pilots.

 

[Evansaero]

If you work at TSA and deny a Gojet jumpseater you'll be fired, that came from their own chief pilot's office. I'd be careful if you deny one. And like what was already said, you're probably denying a furloughed mainline pilot when you do. Yeah, that'll do you well.

You could always do what the last guy did and use a verbal threat "Are you sure you want to do this" and call the VP of Ops.

I left his ass behind too.
He was definitely a security risk

 

[waterski]

you're probably denying a furloughed mainline pilot when you do. Yeah, that'll do you well..

:laugh: :laugh:

 

[~~~^~~~]

Spot on. It's about p!ssed of pilots who didn't play their cards right years ago. Get over it.

You and Freight Dog attitudes exemplify all that is wrong in the World.

I see TSA pilots who took an honorable stand against alter ego replacements, you see a quick way to leverage your lack of moral restraint.

It is true that GoJet pilots have been hired by the majors and cargo carriers. But the majority of new hires have been from other airlines. These new hires are educating their airline's recruiters on the GoJet issue and some of them are becoming the pilot representatives to the recruiting teams.

Short of crashing an airplane while inebriated, I can not think of a more certain way to put a dark cloud over a pilot's career than to put the work "GoJets" any where near an application.

Sure, that is just my opinion and these days we accept the shennanigans of investment bankers who have swindled all of us out of Billions, but, airline recruiters are a pretty conservative bunch.

They don't like moral restraint put in terms like not playing one's cards right.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Although you were flying bizjets on steriods you all demanded to be recognized by ALPA as a Part 121 jet pilot. After some questionable saftey practices, all regional flying was made Part 121. Now every RJ and Beech 1900 pilot jumped on the union bandwagon claiming Part 121 status, not out of solidarity, but out of the need for a quick way to get a job at a major and bypass years of experience.

Every Go Jet pilot is no different than a TSA, RAH, Skywest pilot who took a jet job for pennies on the dollar.

Ridiculing Go Jet pilots and denying them jumpseats does nothing but make you look like an unprofessional goof. There are plently of major airline pilots who feel that their jobs were taken away.

AirCobra,

As another guy who drove the Garrett 331 powered sewerpipe, before the corporate gig, before the regional, before the legacy, I thought I'd agree with your post. However, you missed a couple of important points

• The mainline pilots negotiated scope without the input of the regional ALPA members. It wasn't ASA, Comair, or SkyWest that outsourced the flying, it was contracts negotiated and ratified by mainline. You and your MEC Reps outsourced your flying.
• We agree that Regional guys need to raise their own boat and perform their own heavy lifting to get their contracts up to par. TSA was trying to do just that when their management (same people, same building, same desks, same maintenance, etc...) just set up an alter ego seniority list for those who were willing to step around ALPA and TSA pilots. Some crossed the line.
• ALPA did the right thing in their single carrier petition, but Teamsters aligned themselves with management to fight for the alter ego replacement pilots. Teamsters was the winner.

You have to think about HOW regional pilots can improve their wages and working conditions. You can't just demand change, you have to have power to make it happen. That power comes from scope... the power to force the company to use only seniority list pilots.

GoJets was, and is, and end run around the attempts of TSA pilots to achieve recognition of their seniority, pay and working conditions.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Small world. One of their interviewers at DAL gave me my private pilot's license and I've known him well over 20 years.

You are correct that many of the senior pilots do not know about GoJets. However, they are intelligent and can be educated.

If someone makes the choice to engage in a act other professionals find to be immoral, to cut a corner, is that the person you want flying your 767?

Delta did not hire any Eastern scabs that I am aware of.

 

[ROSWELL41]

It would be refreshing if mainline pilots would start a trend and try to clean things up in this industry. American's APA seems to be taking a step in the right direction. CAL ALPA has held strong on 50 seat scope for jets. Other than those two legacy unions, I can not think of any other that is trying to protect their jobs for the long term. You guys love to criticize the younger generation for being the 'instant gratification' generation, yet most legacy pilot groups have sold out the future for gratification today.

 

[~~~^~~~]

True... very true.

 

[nwa_contrails]

You and Freight Dog attitudes exemplify all that is wrong in the World.

I see TSA pilots who took an honorable stand against alter ego replacements, you see a quick way to leverage your lack of moral restraint.

It is true that GoJet pilots have been hired by the majors and cargo carriers. But the majority of new hires have been from other airlines. These new hires are educating their airline's recruiters on the GoJet issue and some of them are becoming the pilot representatives to the recruiting teams.

Short of crashing an airplane while inebriated, I can not think of a more certain way to put a dark cloud over a pilot's career than to put the work "GoJets" any where near an application.

Sure, that is just my opinion and these days we accept the shennanigans of investment bankers who have swindled all of us out of Billions, but, airline recruiters are a pretty conservative bunch.

They don't like moral restraint put in terms like not playing one's cards right.

Yup. Sure, TSA alums themselves may not be on hiring boards at airlines, but their spouses and family members sure are...I know of at least 2 examples of this and they make sure that the resumes of anyone who worked at GoJet find their way straight to where they belong...the trash...after a brief stop in the shredder.

 

[mesaserf]

I was there for the whole Freedom thing and I can tell you it was not that much fun.

There were days when crew showed up for trips only to find out at the gate that their shedule had been given to a non union Freedom crew and aircraft. they then got to watch as the Freedom boys pushed back from the gate in a brand new CRJ700. All the while the Freedom-A crew was grinning from ear to ear and giving them the thumbs up.

By the way the company refused to pay protect the crew for the lost flying. Now do you think you would be just a we bit bitter? Maybe you can forgive the occasional Mesa pilot if he does not hold the Freedom A-listers in high regard?

Most kids flying at Mesa today could care less about what happened before they were hired. It's just ancient history, and that is the really sad part about it. It kind of makes you wonder just where the next generation is going to take this country.

Thanks, Mesaserf

You have got to be kidding. EVERY single one? And as for Mesa pilots being concerned and grateful - that's funny. There are more pressing issues at hand there currently. Sure, perhaps that used to be the sentiment, but I can assure you it's not that way now. It is well known internally who the "A Listers" are. And for the most part people dont care. They do the Mesa Shuffle - they show up, they fly, they go home.

The jumpseat is a tool designed to help YOU get to and from work. You have the right to your opinions, but just keep in mind your actions may very well affect another's ability to commute the next time they need a ride. You keep up with your "scab lists" or whatever you want to call them. I know plenty of CA who keep "******************************bag lists" on people like you. You see they get your name and the next time a company commuter rides the jump they ask that person if they know you. Then they explain what a d-bag you were. And then usually that commuter comes down on you for making it harder for them to get home. Get the point? It works both ways.

 

[CX880]

AirCobra,

As another guy who drove the Garrett 331 powered sewerpipe, before the corporate gig, before the regional, before the legacy, I thought I'd agree with your post. However, you missed a couple of important points

• The mainline pilots negotiated scope without the input of the regional ALPA members. It wasn't ASA, Comair, or SkyWest that outsourced the flying, it was contracts negotiated and ratified by mainline. You and your MEC Reps outsourced your flying.
• We agree that Regional guys need to raise their own boat and perform their own heavy lifting to get their contracts up to par. TSA was trying to do just that when their management (same people, same building, same desks, same maintenance, etc...) just set up an alter ego seniority list for those who were willing to step around ALPA and TSA pilots. Some crossed the line.
• ALPA did the right thing in their single carrier petition, but Teamsters aligned themselves with management to fight for the alter ego replacement pilots. Teamsters was the winner.

You have to think about HOW regional pilots can improve their wages and working conditions. You can't just demand change, you have to have power to make it happen. That power comes from scope... the power to force the company to use only seniority list pilots.

GoJets was, and is, and end run around the attempts of TSA pilots to achieve recognition of their seniority, pay and working conditions.

Bla, bla, bla round and round we go. Check your facts on how and why GJ was created. Stop spinning it into your support by using words like alter ego and "crossed the line". If the evil all knowing management conspired in their offices on how to piss off pilots and magically somehow get a second sonority list for GJ so they could pay substandard wages and further cheapen their bottom line HOW THEN do GJ pilot have better pay and a better contract than TSA???? Signed by the same management. I'm sorry but all your arguments do not hold GJ is just like any other regional out there and their formation didnt' affect anybody except for the poor TSA lifers, even then it's not as if they couldn't have had the flying. Mesa airlines, Skywest, and others have their share of skeletons how come nobody is pissed at them. I certainly know MESA has further brought this industry down then any other carrier out there, why is there no out rage for pilots over there? All the hypocrisy is just too much.

And those who are non-TSA who dislike gojets I challenge you to prove to us how the formation of GJ has negatively affected you. I'm particulary curious to hear from mainline guys or the poster's above "family memebers on mainline hiring boards"........... I don't want to hear from a CRJ9 pilot who flys 22 per hour from LAX to SLC, we know where you stand.

 

[AirCobra]

AirCobra,

As another guy who drove the Garrett 331 powered sewerpipe, before the corporate gig, before the regional, before the legacy, I thought I'd agree with your post. However, you missed a couple of important points

• The mainline pilots negotiated scope without the input of the regional ALPA members. It wasn't ASA, Comair, or SkyWest that outsourced the flying, it was contracts negotiated and ratified by mainline. You and your MEC Reps outsourced your flying.
• We agree that Regional guys need to raise their own boat and perform their own heavy lifting to get their contracts up to par. TSA was trying to do just that when their management (same people, same building, same desks, same maintenance, etc...) just set up an alter ego seniority list for those who were willing to step around ALPA and TSA pilots. Some crossed the line.
• ALPA did the right thing in their single carrier petition, but Teamsters aligned themselves with management to fight for the alter ego replacement pilots. Teamsters was the winner.

You have to think about HOW regional pilots can improve their wages and working conditions. You can't just demand change, you have to have power to make it happen. That power comes from scope... the power to force the company to use only seniority list pilots.

GoJets was, and is, and end run around the attempts of TSA pilots to achieve recognition of their seniority, pay and working conditions.

Which they gained by taking flying away from mainline United, American, and American Eagle. How do you think TSA got into the position where they needed bigger RJ's in the first place? At the expense of others.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

...so who here has actually been furloughed? Who here doesnt have a job anymore? Just wondering...

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Air Cobra's history lesson was SPOT on. I too was one of those pilots who did things the hard way, instructing, SE freight, multi-freight, metros, saabs, etc. (after flying helos in the Army, which did me no good in the mid 90's).

Mainline should have never given away the scope for the regional jets and held the line. They didn't, and the RUSH to the bottom of the barrel started. Thanks to 9-11 and now the price of oil, pilots just can't run to the lowest paying jobs fast enough.

I find it disturbingly comical that these TSA pilots are bitching about the whole existance of GoJet. Rumors are flying as to what's going to happen including a comical rumor of a merger and TSA pilots keeping their seniority if it happened. No way in hell Hulas would do that if you know him and his history.

There are going to be hundreds of furloughed TSA pilots looking for a job. Want to bet where as many of them as possible apply? But those who do NOT get furloughed will not let their own furloughees jumpseat now (and if htey do that, they'll be fired). It is sickly comical and disgusting at the same time. Grow up.

There really are some ignorant idiots on this thread from TSA. It's comical how they bitch about how GJ is an alter-ego airline, as they fly Eagle-owned jets and aircraft painted with American's colors on them, and before that, flew airplanes with TWA's colors on them, even when TWA had furloughed pilots. Talk about pot calling the kettle black. Yet they don't see it that way. Haha.

All regionals are alter-ego airlines by these same assinine definitions, as proved by Air Cobra's post. GJ PROVED not only in court but with the NMB that they are NOT (unlike Freedom, which was proved to be).

Bottom line is, all regionals stole their flying from someone else. There are NO exceptions. The argument these TSA crybabies are making, quite frankly, "doesn't hold up in court", pun intended, and when the AA contract goes away, they are going to need a job. Hmmmm. Let's see how long they flip burgers at burger king as NO ONE is hiring pilots. Oh. Maybe they'll apply to Net Jets! Oh, wait. After the United lay-off announcement Net Jets got 600 United pilot resumes. Good luck competing with them. And every other pilot in the Country.

You TSA guys need to wake up, especially if you're not in the top 250 pilots. You may be on the chopping block. You're gonna dis and deny GoJet pilots? Moronic.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Which they gained by taking flying away from mainline United, American, and American Eagle. How do you think TSA got into the position where they needed bigger RJ's in the first place? At the expense of others.

Yes and no. Who made the decision to allow their flying to be outsourced?

Mainline pilots negotiated their own scope.

There is difference between TSA guys performing flying that has been outsourced as a result of an agreement ratified by mainline pilots and an airline's operation using pilots to replace those taking a stand in negotiations with management. The distinction is clear.

Blah, blah, blah.... I'm particulary curious to hear from mainline guys

I fly 767's with Options Slave's buddy.