How is Life at Gojets?

[aussieflyboy]

Combo FO/CA? Does this mean you yank your own gear?

I'd be good at that. I yank my own gear nearly every day...

 

[rtmcfi]

That is and was my point. I am not talking about the journey but the destination.

I wouldn't want to talk about the "journey" either, had I f'ed it up as bad as mainline pilots.

You keep talking about scopes and whipsaws.

Yep, and you want to conveniently look past the fact that mainline pilots DID own those routes. They DID sell them off in negotiations.

Answer finally: Are you or are you not flying former mainline routes for less money than a mainline pilot?

Answer finally: Did mainline pilots exchange their routes at the bargaining table?

We all know the answer is yes,

As do we.....

so you are benefiting from another pilots misfortune in getting screwed over by management.

Stop your sniveling. You can't rape the willing. Mainline pilots grabbed their ankles at managements request.


YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM! Face it already.

YOU ARE THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM! Face it already.

 

[CX880]

CX..
again, I guess you just don't get it.

We didn't ******************** up. We fought a battle for a just cause and we lost.

If needed, I would do it again.
There will always be pilots who justify going to work for people like Hulas and companies like GoJets. You and OS seem to be acouple of them. EO, SJ and DT were others..
MDW came on here to ask some serious questions. I respect that.
What he does with the info will be up to him.

If he chooses to go to GoJets he will have to live with that decision. But he should have all the info available to make that decision. And part of that info is realizing how and why GoJets got started and why there is hatred towards them.

Some people hate SouthWest, others JetBlue. I know of people who hate Continental (and not just right now.. lol) and others that hate Delta, UPS and Fedex.
Every has a reason and I have stated mine towards GoJet and the management of TSAH.

But "Wow I believe this is the first post where a TSA pilot admits they F#cked UP!" Not even close.

You can hate all you want but it's not going to get you anywhere. I don't like Southwest, they're sort of responsible for the greyhoundization of the airlines, making flying affordable for everyone. Am I posting on threads about how much I hate them, calling them ******************************bags? Calling them scum, scabs, slimeballs? NO

 

[Turtlesfly]

... GoJet is an opportunity for furloughed pilots to have employment in a time when virtually no one is hiring.

You have never been a union leader at any point in your life. You are full of crap when you say that you are a union supporter. You are lying when you say you want to "better the profession."

The ONLY thing you care about is yourself and will stop at nothing to screw over anybody over and justify it by blaming a "court" descision. You will probably respond all innocently by saying "how am I screwing over pilots?" Because TSA is furloughing, and you're bragging how GoJets is hiring, that's how.

And even if you were a union leader on paper, in reality you were never a "leader." You don't lead other people to helping this profession and standing up together - all you care about is feeding your own stomach. The worst part about is that you're here encouraging people to join you and do the same thing.

 

[Turtlesfly]

by the way -

how can you tell who the original GoJetters were, the first ones who came over? Can you tell by their employee numbers?

 

[rtmcfi]

You can hate all you want but it's not going to get you anywhere. I don't like Southwest, they're sort of responsible for the greyhoundization of the airlines, making flying affordable for everyone. Am I posting on threads about how much I hate them, calling them ******************************bags? Calling them scum, scabs, slimeballs? NO

Comparing hojets to SWA is laughable. That is sooo out of touch with reality. Enjoy your treatment at hojets. Then enjoy preparing for every interview thereafter. When you return here to cry about it, someone will bring up the fact that you are a three-peat dunce. Your job history will stick out like a sore thumb at an interview. Mesa, TSA, then hojets. Brilliant career moves from an obviously brilliant fellow. I wonder how many guys just like you there are? Not many I would imagine. I would venture that your app will be easy to spot, and then deal with appropriately.

 

[rtmcfi]

by the way -

how can you tell who the original GoJetters were, the first ones who came over? Can you tell by their employee numbers?

Turn on your private messages

 

[Rook]

I'd be good at that. I yank my own gear nearly every day...

Game set...and match!:laugh:

 

[Options_SLAVE]

You have never been a union leader at any point in your life. You are full of crap when you say that you are a union supporter. You are lying when you say you want to "better the profession."

The ONLY thing you care about is yourself and will stop at nothing to screw over anybody over and justify it by blaming a "court" descision. You will probably respond all innocently by saying "how am I screwing over pilots?" Because TSA is furloughing, and you're bragging how GoJets is hiring, that's how.

And even if you were a union leader on paper, in reality you were never a "leader." You don't lead other people to helping this profession and standing up together - all you care about is feeding your own stomach. The worst part about is that you're here encouraging people to join you and do the same thing.

Ah! Captain "know-it-all" with his all-knowing 4000 hours is back. Wow, you really DO know it all, don't you. You just proved you don't know crap. Believe what you want, say what you want. I don't really care as you're about as wrong as you can be. Oh well!

 

[Caspian27]

... and round and round we go.

No one's opinions have changed here, fellas. Motch's post was spot on regarding everyone has their reasons for hating different airlines. Some pilots will hate Gojet pilots. I can live with that. From what it sounds like, some very senior Gojet pilots came over for a seniority grab vs. TSA pilots before the vote. Not cool. I however had nothing to do with any of that. Pointing a finger at me would be like pointing a finger at "any" continental pilot for being a scab when in fact most of those pilots are not scabs, or at XJ during the time XJ and EXA had their seniority issues when there was consolidation of Airlink flying and pilots moving from EXA to XJ (and was basically the major playing regional airlines against each other as usual, as is this case), etc. I wasn't there when any of that happened. But, if people want to hate me for that, if that makes them feel better about themselves, that's their problem, not mine.

GoJet is an opportunity for furloughed pilots to have employment in a time when virtually no one is hiring (SWA pool opened this week to fill up for class dates at least 18 months out, btw) and is a legitimate, separate airline from TSA, and proved so in court. Its existance was created to circumvent AA's strangle-hold on TSAH on flying aircraft larger than 50 seats for ANY carrier in a time when NO carrier wants 50 seat jets anymore, NOT to get around one pilot group's scope. Therefore, it is NOT an alter-ego airline, such as Freedom or Compass, which are.

Freedom WAS an alter-ego carrier. There is now just one seniority list for Mesa, Air Midwest AND Freedom.

Last time I checked, TSA was furloughing while GoJet was hiring. Since they are owned by the same company, I'd say they are an alter-ego carrier.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Ah, but the reason they are one list now is that Mesa ALPA petitioned the NMB and were successful in making the lists one list, because in fact Freedom Air was formed strictly for flying formerly Mesa Airlines routes, and pressuring both CCAir and Mesa airline pilots to whipsaw against each other, and the sole purpose of the airline's existance was to get around Mesa's unionized pilots and their CBA.

TSA pilots petitioned the NMB for single carrier status but they were rejected because GoJet is NOT flying the same routes that TSA was flying and in fact GoJet was NOT formed to circumvent TSA's unionized pilots, but to be free from AA's scope prohibiting Trans States Airlines from operating any jets for ANYONE with jets with more than 50 seats, which was also easily proved as such in court. The forming of GoJet had absolutely nothing to do with the TSA pilots' contract with TSAH. Of course management will be management, and they did make an offer to put both airlines on one list, but that "offer" that TSAH gave to the pilots for a single list of course had a couple loop holes that the TSA pilots of course found unacceptable. GoJet, however, would have been and in fact was formed even if a single list would have been voted on, or if the TSA pilots did win their petition or court case.

Therefore, no, I submit GoJet is not an alter-ego airline, but is a completely separate airline with different routes and a completely different client, and is proved by both the U.S. courts and the NMB.

 

[ttuite]

Actually, it's the closest comparable issue surrounding mainline pilots - pilots flying as "EXPRESS" or "CONNECTION" for peanuts on a dollar. Another one is the whole Eagle vs. TSA issue, and you say it's a management decision, yet you say this isn't. See the double standard?

But OK... I'll settle for an answer to this:

ALPA filed a lawsuit against TSHoldings and lost; ALPA petitioned NMB to declare single carrier status between TSA and GoJet and NMB rejected it. ALPA never instituted a recruitment boycott of GoJet like they did with Cathay Pacific. So..... how did a pilot hired by GoJets today harm you in wake of NMB and legal decisions? There's no doubt that the initial group that started at GoJet back during those legal battles did so with intent to bypass seniority, and yes, you should shun those guys. However, my question pertains to those hired TODAY - in light of legal decisions rendered, how are they harming TSA pilots?

Can someone please answer?

While you are at it can you answer one more question? When GoJets was formed why didn't a group of TSA pilots just go over in the first wave and vote out the Teamsters and reinstitute ALPA? I realize that Hulas learned his lesson watching Freedom be recaptured by Mesa and that he brought his first group of handpicked pilots over and put Teamsters in place. All the TSA MEC had to do was have their members go over, decertify the Teamsters and reinstitute ALPA. I think that there were some big ego's on both sides involved and the TSA MEC blew the opportunity. It always amazes me to see certain people jump on Mesa while Mesa pilots gave up almost everything to recapture the Freedom flying. Maybe TSA pilots should quit blaming everyone else for their problems and look within for fault.

 

[CX880]

While you are at it can you answer one more question? When GoJets was formed why didn't a group of TSA pilots just go over in the first wave and vote out the Teamsters and reinstitute ALPA? I realize that Hulas learned his lesson watching Freedom be recaptured by Mesa and that he brought his first group of handpicked pilots over and put Teamsters in place. All the TSA MEC had to do was have their members go over, decertify the Teamsters and reinstitute ALPA. I think that there were some big ego's on both sides involved and the TSA MEC blew the opportunity. It always amazes me to see certain people jump on Mesa while Mesa pilots gave up almost everything to recapture the Freedom flying. Maybe TSA pilots should quit blaming everyone else for their problems and look within for fault.

That's a little too much to comprehend for most who get their info second hand. Someone said scab, they follow along with it.

 

[motch]

Just to clarify something...
At the time of the NMB case, I do not believe GoJets was flying any TSA-United Express routes.
After the court sided with TSAH/GoJet, they did start replacing certain TSA routes.

And again, just because one court in one district votes one way, doesn't mean another court in another district will vote the same.

TSA pilots learned that the hard way. Guess you think OJ didn't do it either?

 

[Caspian27]

Ah, but the reason they are one list now is that Mesa ALPA petitioned the NMB and were successful in making the lists one list, because in fact Freedom Air was formed strictly for flying formerly Mesa Airlines routes, and pressuring both CCAir and Mesa airline pilots to whipsaw against each other, and the sole purpose of the airline's existance was to get around Mesa's unionized pilots and their CBA.

TSA pilots petitioned the NMB for single carrier status but they were rejected because GoJet is NOT flying the same routes that TSA was flying and in fact GoJet was NOT formed to circumvent TSA's unionized pilots, but to be free from AA's scope prohibiting Trans States Airlines from operating any jets for ANYONE with jets with more than 50 seats, which was also easily proved as such in court. The forming of GoJet had absolutely nothing to do with the TSA pilots' contract with TSAH. Of course management will be management, and they did make an offer to put both airlines on one list, but that "offer" that TSAH gave to the pilots for a single list of course had a couple loop holes that the TSA pilots of course found unacceptable. GoJet, however, would have been and in fact was formed even if a single list would have been voted on, or if the TSA pilots did win their petition or court case.

Therefore, no, I submit GoJet is not an alter-ego airline, but is a completely separate airline with different routes and a completely different client, and is proved by both the U.S. courts and the NMB.

I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of...disagree with you...

Bottom line, both airlines are owned by the same company, and it just isn't right for one to furlough while the other is hiring.

I've never worked for TSA, so I have no "dog" in this fight. But nothing in your defense convinced me that this isn't the same as Freedom-A.

 

[FO 4 Life]

Bottom line, both airlines are owned by the same company, and it just isn't right for one to furlough while the other is hiring.

That is why Eagle has a 16 year contract. They wanted the 4 Eagles joined into one list and had to take it in the shorts to get it. AMR would continually whipsaw one versus the other until it happened.

 

[Freight Dog]

Just to clarify something...
At the time of the NMB case, I do not believe GoJets was flying any TSA-United Express routes.
After the court sided with TSAH/GoJet, they did start replacing certain TSA routes.

And again, just because one court in one district votes one way, doesn't mean another court in another district will vote the same.

TSA pilots learned that the hard way. Guess you think OJ didn't do it either?

Then why don't you as an ALPA-dues paying member go to your reps and bring about a motion to re-file single carrier status pretition with NMB?

If you can prove that it is indeed the same airline, then you'll have the support of every decent airline pilot out there.

Sitting here, and whining about "GayJet scabs stealing our minimum wage jobs we stole from the mainline.... boohoohooo..... I'm gonna deny GoJet jumpseaters a ride.... boohoohooo!!!!" ain't gonna do a damn thing. Either do something about it to bring them back into your fault, or move on.

As it stands right now, GoJet is a separate airline, ruled on by a judge AND by NMB.

 

[Melfly]

How about GJ pilots aren't allowed on my jumpseat, for numerous reasons....


Sorry, if they are the only ones hiring but hope you in live in St. Louis.

 

[FlyWolf]

How about GJ pilots aren't allowed on my jumpseat, for numerous reasons....


Sorry, if they are the only ones hiring but hope you in live in St. Louis.

You need to grow up.

 

[Freight Dog]

How about GJ pilots aren't allowed on my jumpseat, for numerous reasons....


Sorry, if they are the only ones hiring but hope you in live in St. Louis.

At 400 hours and a commercial ticket, you get to decide who rides the jumpseat?