How is Life at Gojets?

[Evansaero]

Brief History

I am awaiting class as a combo fo/ca. They say I should be a captain shortly after finishing training.

The pay is ok to start and does not really concern me much. How many days per month do they work you? How many hours of credit do you get per month. Are there trip/duty regs?

What are the schedules like? Is there any incentive pay over 75 or 80 hours?

What is the 401k matching (it says zero on this site)?

Anything else you can tell me would be great.

Thank you.

On Oct. 26, 2004, TSA management informed TSA employees of their intent to pursue another operating certificate and to create a sister carrier to fly 70-seat or larger jets. This announcement came only after management had previously refused to agree with the TSA MEC to an industry-average pay rate for this larger aircraft or to apply the provisions of the collective bargaining agreement for negotiating pay rates for new equipment. As a result, TSA management blamed the MEC for preventing TSA from acquiring larger aircraft. In 2004, however, management changed its story, saying instead that the Allied Pilots Association’s contract with American Airlines prevented TSA from operating 70-seat aircraft. Trans States management has repeatedly tried to circumvent the promises upon which they agreed when they signed our contract.

In December 2004, TSA management submitted an application for gojet Airlines. In April 2005, United Airlines announced it had reached an agreement with gojet Airlines to fly 10 CRJ- 700s under the United Express banner (flying that Air Wisconsin used to do). Labor/management relations took a definite downward turn in February 2005, when the chairman of the TSA pilots Grievance Committee, was fired. Shortly thereafter, Local Executive Council 39 captain representative was also fired. During this time, TSA management voluntarily recognized the Teamsters as the bargaining representative for the pilots of gojet. This scheme involved the submission of authorization cards signed by only four management-selected pilots to the National Mediation Board and a Feb. 7, 2005, request for certification. The NMB certified the Teamsters request to represent the “personnel described as ‘pilots,’ employees of gojet Airlines” on April 11. The Teamsters voluntarily revoked the certification after ALPA alerted the NMB and the union that the alleged airline had no active pilots, aircraft, or operating certificate, and therefore, the voluntary recognition was both illegal and premature.

The regional jet industry began in 1965 with the launch of the DC-9, which carried as many passengers as the CRJ-700—the airplane that gojet will be flying under the United Express banner. In 1965, pilots made more money than what gojet pilots are paid today

We built this airline and we worked tirelessly through all the dark hours of TWA and the transfer to American

Firing of key union leaders, management intimidation of pilots filing grievances, strained labor relations, and to top it off the creation of an alter-ego airline

Anybody who tells you this is a unique situation is making excuses

Those pilots will never sit in my jumpseat. Period

 

[FO 4 Life]

BTW, now I DO carry a list of original GoJetters thanks to some on this board.

So will you look at it every time you have a jumper? Deny the DAL pilot because he worked at Go Jet? That would probably not sit well with DAL group even though it is your right.

Just curious.

 

[Turtlesfly]

you'd better believe also that I'd check the list if I were doing interviews for DAL and an ex-goJetter came in to interview.

Sorry - play by the rules or don't complain when you're not invited to play.

 

[CX880]

you'd better believe also that I'd check the list if I were doing interviews for DAL and an ex-goJetter came in to interview.

Sorry - play by the rules or don't complain when you're not invited to play.

Yea because having gone to GJ matters to Suzy in HR and major airline pilots. Will Delta be in a pickle because they can't fly 300+ seats and have to resort to creating another airline and call it GoJets? Give me a break. GJ is legaly legitimate, not an alter ego it wasn't created to undermine any pilots.

And how retarded is Evansaero's post. Blanketing GJ, as if GJ is the problem to world wide lower pilot pay than it was back in the 1960s. If that's the case, what about the other regional pilots???

 

[rtmcfi]

So will you look at it every time you have a jumper? Deny the DAL pilot because he worked at Go Jet? That would probably not sit well with DAL group even though it is your right.

Just curious.

I have checked every jumpseater religiously. It takes no time at all with a searchable word document on a pocketpc/palm. Any DAL pilot worth his/her salt should be thrilled to see us checking. The scumbag that is not getting a ride, has nothing to do with the DAL pilot group. Nearly every TSA/Mesa pilot I have checked has been thankful. Only 2 Freedum A-listers have been less than happy about the situation. Of course, I imagine they got over it while waiting for the next flight, which in at least one case, was the next day.

 

[masedogg19]

does that make your little wang hard?...preventing people from getting home or to work?

 

[CX880]

I have checked every jumpseater religiously. It takes no time at all with a searchable word document on a pocketpc/palm. Any DAL pilot worth his/her salt should be thrilled to see us checking. The scumbag that is not getting a ride, has nothing to do with the DAL pilot group. Nearly every TSA/Mesa pilot I have checked has been thankful. Only 2 Freedum A-listers have been less than happy about the situation. Of course, I imagine they got over it while waiting for the next flight, which in at least one case, was the next day.

rtmcfi if this is true then YOU truly are a class A scumbag. I see by your info that you have a hard on for Unions, your kind of stunts do nothing to unify pilots. Pilots against pilots won't do anything to bettering our cause.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

On Oct. 26, 2004, TSA management informed TSA employees of their intent to pursue another operating certificate and to create a sister carrier to fly 70-seat or larger jets. This announcement came only after management had previously refused to agree with the TSA MEC to an industry-average pay rate for this larger aircraft or to apply the provisions of the collective bargaining agreement for negotiating pay rates for new equipment. As a result, TSA management blamed the MEC for preventing TSA from acquiring larger aircraft. In 2004, however, management changed its story, saying instead that the Allied Pilots Association’s contract with American Airlines prevented TSA from operating 70-seat aircraft. Trans States management has repeatedly tried to circumvent the promises upon which they agreed when they signed our contract.

In December 2004, TSA management submitted an application for gojet Airlines. In April 2005, United Airlines announced it had reached an agreement with gojet Airlines to fly 10 CRJ- 700s under the United Express banner (flying that Air Wisconsin used to do). Labor/management relations took a definite downward turn in February 2005, when the chairman of the TSA pilots Grievance Committee, was fired. Shortly thereafter, Local Executive Council 39 captain representative was also fired. During this time, TSA management voluntarily recognized the Teamsters as the bargaining representative for the pilots of gojet. This scheme involved the submission of authorization cards signed by only four management-selected pilots to the National Mediation Board and a Feb. 7, 2005, request for certification. The NMB certified the Teamsters request to represent the “personnel described as ‘pilots,’ employees of gojet Airlines” on April 11. The Teamsters voluntarily revoked the certification after ALPA alerted the NMB and the union that the alleged airline had no active pilots, aircraft, or operating certificate, and therefore, the voluntary recognition was both illegal and premature.

The regional jet industry began in 1965 with the launch of the DC-9, which carried as many passengers as the CRJ-700—the airplane that gojet will be flying under the United Express banner. In 1965, pilots made more money than what gojet pilots are paid today

We built this airline and we worked tirelessly through all the dark hours of TWA and the transfer to American

Firing of key union leaders, management intimidation of pilots filing grievances, strained labor relations, and to top it off the creation of an alter-ego airline

Anybody who tells you this is a unique situation is making excuses

Those pilots will never sit in my jumpseat. Period

Isn't it interesting this guy points out "the flying that air wisconsin used to do" but does not mention anything about the flying that he does for Eagle. He also leaves out the part where the TSA pilots tried and failed both in court and with the NMB to get the GoJet pilots under one list, because his story is altered for his own perspective.

The agreement between AA and TSAH is what kept them from 70-seat jets, which was due because of the scope agreement between APA and AA.

If you work at TSA and deny a Gojet jumpseater you'll be fired, that came from their own chief pilot's office. I'd be careful if you deny one. And like what was already said, you're probably denying a furloughed mainline pilot when you do. Yeah, that'll do you well.

GoJet is not an alter-ego airline. Believe what you want, do what you want. The real world fact is that they aren't, and every new-hire is a furloughed pilot, including TSA pilots. Hope you enjoy denying a GoJet ex-TSA pilot that jumpseat. Real humane of you.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

you'd better believe also that I'd check the list if I were doing interviews for DAL and an ex-goJetter came in to interview.

Sorry - play by the rules or don't complain when you're not invited to play.

Small world. One of their interviewers at DAL gave me my private pilot's license and I've known him well over 20 years. I talked to him late last night. He could give a _ _ _ _ about the feud between TSA's pilots and TSA, and he agrees, this "dispute" has nothing to do with the pilots at GoJet and that its' infintile for TSA pilots to think so. But, you're Cap'n know-it-all. Herhaps I'll tell him to look out for a 4,000 hr "Captain" at XJ's resume and your attitude for leaving perfectly legit pilots at the gate and your jumpseat empty. Not that they're doin' much hirin' these days.

 

[Tar Heel]

I have checked every jumpseater religiously. It takes no time at all with a searchable word document on a pocketpc/palm. Any DAL pilot worth his/her salt should be thrilled to see us checking. The scumbag that is not getting a ride, has nothing to do with the DAL pilot group. Nearly every TSA/Mesa pilot I have checked has been thankful. Only 2 Freedum A-listers have been less than happy about the situation. Of course, I imagine they got over it while waiting for the next flight, which in at least one case, was the next day.

You have got to be kidding. EVERY single one? And as for Mesa pilots being concerned and grateful - that's funny. There are more pressing issues at hand there currently. Sure, perhaps that used to be the sentiment, but I can assure you it's not that way now. It is well known internally who the "A Listers" are. And for the most part people dont care. They do the Mesa Shuffle - they show up, they fly, they go home.

The jumpseat is a tool designed to help YOU get to and from work. You have the right to your opinions, but just keep in mind your actions may very well affect another's ability to commute the next time they need a ride. You keep up with your "scab lists" or whatever you want to call them. I know plenty of CA who keep "******************************bag lists" on people like you. You see they get your name and the next time a company commuter rides the jump they ask that person if they know you. Then they explain what a d-bag you were. And then usually that commuter comes down on you for making it harder for them to get home. Get the point? It works both ways.

 

[nwa_contrails]

Yea because having gone to GJ matters to Suzy in HR and major airline pilots. Will Delta be in a pickle because they can't fly 300+ seats and have to resort to creating another airline and call it GoJets? Give me a break. GJ is legaly legitimate, not an alter ego it wasn't created to undermine any pilots.

And how retarded is Evansaero's post. Blanketing GJ, as if GJ is the problem to world wide lower pilot pay than it was back in the 1960s. If that's the case, what about the other regional pilots???

And you used to be a waterskiier....wow...speechless...

 

[FO 4 Life]

Th

I have checked every jumpseater religiously. It takes no time at all with a searchable word document on a pocketpc/palm. Any DAL pilot worth his/her salt should be thrilled to see us checking. The scumbag that is not getting a ride, has nothing to do with the DAL pilot group. Nearly every TSA/Mesa pilot I have checked has been thankful. Only 2 Freedum A-listers have been less than happy about the situation. Of course, I imagine they got over it while waiting for the next flight, which in at least one case, was the next day.

There are former Go Jet pilots at DAL. For you to bump one and say it has nothing to do with the DAL pilot group would be a miscalculation. DALPA will look at it as you bumping one of theirs regardless of past affiliation. If you haven't figured by now, most majors don't give 2 $hit$ about regional fighting. FWIW.

 

[Citrus531]

does that make your little wang hard?...preventing people from getting home or to work?

For the guys who have said no Gojetters are allowed on their jumpseat....like Options has said in this thread GoJet is getting some furloughed guys from ATA, etc....so if one of them, who's now a GJ pilot comes up, shakes your hand and says "hey I'm looking to get the jumpseat if possible to get home...my name is Joe and I fly for Gojet..how are you, etc".... You're going to say "You'll have to wait...you're not riding my jumpseat"????

And will you also deny an FO who doesn't even know the whole situation from 3 + years ago and was just hired by GJ? Will this denying a person a chance to get home go on indefinitely because of the company somebody chose to work with?

Just wondering.....

 

[CX880]

And you used to be a waterskiier....wow...speechless...

Sorry I call BS on the whole GJ/TSA deal, I'm simply trying to get a good flying job with equal and better work rules. And I don't buy the hypocrisy. One regional pilot says they can't stand scumbags who undermine others while another regional pilot in another post is excited that his airline might be the launch customer in the U.S of a 130 pax jet. A buddy of mine at Mesa says they've recruited a whole bunch of guys and classes are going to be full indefinitely. It's no use in fighting because no matter what, people will fly for food.

 

[AirCobra]

Todays regional airline pilot has no sense of history as is evidenced by the posts in this thread. You don't want other airlines or pilots taking your jobs, you want ALPA to fix your problems all of which you helped create, but now refuse to acknowledge your part in it.

When I started flying in the 80's if you were not a military pilot you spent years instructing, then flying 135 in singles Navajos and 402's. After 1500 to 4000 hours maybe you got a job flying Metros or Bandits for another 3 to 5 years. Perhaps you would go to a national airline like AWAC or AirCal before going to a major. ASA and AWAC would not even look at you without 3000 hours.

All of a sudden no one could wait to build a base of experience and skill. They had to skip all of that and get into the Metro right away, so all that PFT stuff started. Pay $12,000 bucks and get on the fast track. Now those with money could bypass those with experience.

Then some management geniuses came up with the idea to give regional airlines jets. Although you were flying bizjets on steriods you all demanded to be recognized by ALPA as a Part 121 jet pilot. After some questionable saftey practices, all regional flying was made Part 121. Now every RJ and Beech 1900 pilot jumped on the union bandwagon claiming Part 121 status, not out of solidarity, but out of the need for a quick way to get a job at a major and bypass years of experience.

This need to get on with a major ailine as quickly as possible created in young pilots a thirst for jet time. No one wanted jobs flying anything but RJ's, but the pay was still no different than what it was flying a Metro. You all cried "I fly jets, I'm entitled to be treated no different to any other jet pilot". Airline management took advantage of you and saw how they could get pilots to fly jets for less than half of what they were paying major airline pilots. The jets got bigger and your egos took over. You guys fought tooth and nail to get rid of scope clauses that were designed to protect your future job, so you could fly a bigger jet for a few more bucks an hour. The desire for the fast track allowed you to be led by the nose as management took away nearly 40% of all domestic flying from major airlines, and got you to fly the routes for poverty wages.

Second tier airlines virtually disappeared. Major airlines got rid of their smaller jets creating less jobs. Regional jets got bigger, more major airline jobs went away. Suddenly there were far fewer major airline jobs to get. Major airline pilots got furloughs and paycuts. Regional jet pilots played a major part in ruining their future chances to get a job at a major airline.

Now many of you are seeing you will probably be staying at ...... Express for the rest of your career and suddenly want ALPA to rescue you from low wages, alter ego airlines, and to save your jobs. You are ALPA now. You demanded to be recognized so quit looking for somone else to fix your problems and more importantly quit looking for someone to blame.

Every Go Jet pilot is no different than a TSA, RAH, Skywest pilot who took a jet job for pennies on the dollar. Do you think United used to fly an Metro from ORD to DEN? No, that was a route where they got rid of a 737 and replaced it with poor saps flying RJ's for half the pay.

Quit blaming others for your problems that you helped create. Expect little sympathy from most of ALPA as we too are paying for a situation where you were willing accomplices. Ridiculing Go Jet pilots and denying them jumpseats does nothing but make you look like an unprofessional goof. There are plently of major airline pilots who feel that their jobs were taken away. There was little love for TSA, Skywest or Mesa around ORD but I have never heard of a regional guy being refused a jumpseat. Grow up, and if you carry around a list of Go Jet pilots that you actually update or spend even two seconds looking at, you are an idiot.

Enjoy your Bourbon Chicken!

 

[Melfly]

So let me get this right for all of you GoJets pilots defending your current employer, how are you any different then Freedom Airlines?

I know, I know there is a lot of good ATA, Champion, and etc furloughed people there, however I am not biting.

I am not saying that anyone is a scab by any means at Gojets, but I feel the rational on some of your parts is that 'it was the only airline hiring so I went there.'

Which leads my to believe if any airlines striked right now and they were the only ones hiring, that potentially a lot of pilots would go to that airline and work.

I feel that by ruining a pilot groups bargaining power by working for an alter ego carrier damages ALL pilot groups. Now you can give me a million quotes from legal documents and blah blah blah but please answer these question, what was managements exacts intentions when they developed GoJets? Did Gojets negatively effect the TSA pilot group? Is it true that TSA furloughed pilots directly after Gojets was developed?

TSA is none for being horrible to their pilots group (ie the firing of union leaders). They don't play by the books and Gojets was just that.

I would like to quote a freedom air A lister "but I had a mortgage, so I did what I had to do." Well you know what, so did the MESA pilots.

 

[Evansaero]

If you work at TSA and deny a Gojet jumpseater you'll be fired, that came from their own chief pilot's office. I'd be careful if you deny one. And like what was already said, you're probably denying a furloughed mainline pilot when you do. Yeah, that'll do you well.

You could always do what the last guy did and use a verbal threat "Are you sure you want to do this" and call the VP of Ops.

I left his ass behind too.
He was definitely a security risk

 

[waterski]

you're probably denying a furloughed mainline pilot when you do. Yeah, that'll do you well..

:laugh: :laugh:

 

[~~~^~~~]

Spot on. It's about p!ssed of pilots who didn't play their cards right years ago. Get over it.

You and Freight Dog attitudes exemplify all that is wrong in the World.

I see TSA pilots who took an honorable stand against alter ego replacements, you see a quick way to leverage your lack of moral restraint.

It is true that GoJet pilots have been hired by the majors and cargo carriers. But the majority of new hires have been from other airlines. These new hires are educating their airline's recruiters on the GoJet issue and some of them are becoming the pilot representatives to the recruiting teams.

Short of crashing an airplane while inebriated, I can not think of a more certain way to put a dark cloud over a pilot's career than to put the work "GoJets" any where near an application.

Sure, that is just my opinion and these days we accept the shennanigans of investment bankers who have swindled all of us out of Billions, but, airline recruiters are a pretty conservative bunch.

They don't like moral restraint put in terms like not playing one's cards right.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Although you were flying bizjets on steriods you all demanded to be recognized by ALPA as a Part 121 jet pilot. After some questionable saftey practices, all regional flying was made Part 121. Now every RJ and Beech 1900 pilot jumped on the union bandwagon claiming Part 121 status, not out of solidarity, but out of the need for a quick way to get a job at a major and bypass years of experience.

Every Go Jet pilot is no different than a TSA, RAH, Skywest pilot who took a jet job for pennies on the dollar.

Ridiculing Go Jet pilots and denying them jumpseats does nothing but make you look like an unprofessional goof. There are plently of major airline pilots who feel that their jobs were taken away.

AirCobra,

As another guy who drove the Garrett 331 powered sewerpipe, before the corporate gig, before the regional, before the legacy, I thought I'd agree with your post. However, you missed a couple of important points

• The mainline pilots negotiated scope without the input of the regional ALPA members. It wasn't ASA, Comair, or SkyWest that outsourced the flying, it was contracts negotiated and ratified by mainline. You and your MEC Reps outsourced your flying.
• We agree that Regional guys need to raise their own boat and perform their own heavy lifting to get their contracts up to par. TSA was trying to do just that when their management (same people, same building, same desks, same maintenance, etc...) just set up an alter ego seniority list for those who were willing to step around ALPA and TSA pilots. Some crossed the line.
• ALPA did the right thing in their single carrier petition, but Teamsters aligned themselves with management to fight for the alter ego replacement pilots. Teamsters was the winner.

You have to think about HOW regional pilots can improve their wages and working conditions. You can't just demand change, you have to have power to make it happen. That power comes from scope... the power to force the company to use only seniority list pilots.

GoJets was, and is, and end run around the attempts of TSA pilots to achieve recognition of their seniority, pay and working conditions.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Small world. One of their interviewers at DAL gave me my private pilot's license and I've known him well over 20 years.

You are correct that many of the senior pilots do not know about GoJets. However, they are intelligent and can be educated.

If someone makes the choice to engage in a act other professionals find to be immoral, to cut a corner, is that the person you want flying your 767?

Delta did not hire any Eastern scabs that I am aware of.

 

[ROSWELL41]

It would be refreshing if mainline pilots would start a trend and try to clean things up in this industry. American's APA seems to be taking a step in the right direction. CAL ALPA has held strong on 50 seat scope for jets. Other than those two legacy unions, I can not think of any other that is trying to protect their jobs for the long term. You guys love to criticize the younger generation for being the 'instant gratification' generation, yet most legacy pilot groups have sold out the future for gratification today.

 

[~~~^~~~]

True... very true.

 

[nwa_contrails]

You and Freight Dog attitudes exemplify all that is wrong in the World.

I see TSA pilots who took an honorable stand against alter ego replacements, you see a quick way to leverage your lack of moral restraint.

It is true that GoJet pilots have been hired by the majors and cargo carriers. But the majority of new hires have been from other airlines. These new hires are educating their airline's recruiters on the GoJet issue and some of them are becoming the pilot representatives to the recruiting teams.

Short of crashing an airplane while inebriated, I can not think of a more certain way to put a dark cloud over a pilot's career than to put the work "GoJets" any where near an application.

Sure, that is just my opinion and these days we accept the shennanigans of investment bankers who have swindled all of us out of Billions, but, airline recruiters are a pretty conservative bunch.

They don't like moral restraint put in terms like not playing one's cards right.

Yup. Sure, TSA alums themselves may not be on hiring boards at airlines, but their spouses and family members sure are...I know of at least 2 examples of this and they make sure that the resumes of anyone who worked at GoJet find their way straight to where they belong...the trash...after a brief stop in the shredder.

 

[mesaserf]

I was there for the whole Freedom thing and I can tell you it was not that much fun.

There were days when crew showed up for trips only to find out at the gate that their shedule had been given to a non union Freedom crew and aircraft. they then got to watch as the Freedom boys pushed back from the gate in a brand new CRJ700. All the while the Freedom-A crew was grinning from ear to ear and giving them the thumbs up.

By the way the company refused to pay protect the crew for the lost flying. Now do you think you would be just a we bit bitter? Maybe you can forgive the occasional Mesa pilot if he does not hold the Freedom A-listers in high regard?

Most kids flying at Mesa today could care less about what happened before they were hired. It's just ancient history, and that is the really sad part about it. It kind of makes you wonder just where the next generation is going to take this country.

Thanks, Mesaserf

You have got to be kidding. EVERY single one? And as for Mesa pilots being concerned and grateful - that's funny. There are more pressing issues at hand there currently. Sure, perhaps that used to be the sentiment, but I can assure you it's not that way now. It is well known internally who the "A Listers" are. And for the most part people dont care. They do the Mesa Shuffle - they show up, they fly, they go home.

The jumpseat is a tool designed to help YOU get to and from work. You have the right to your opinions, but just keep in mind your actions may very well affect another's ability to commute the next time they need a ride. You keep up with your "scab lists" or whatever you want to call them. I know plenty of CA who keep "******************************bag lists" on people like you. You see they get your name and the next time a company commuter rides the jump they ask that person if they know you. Then they explain what a d-bag you were. And then usually that commuter comes down on you for making it harder for them to get home. Get the point? It works both ways.

 

[CX880]

AirCobra,

As another guy who drove the Garrett 331 powered sewerpipe, before the corporate gig, before the regional, before the legacy, I thought I'd agree with your post. However, you missed a couple of important points

• The mainline pilots negotiated scope without the input of the regional ALPA members. It wasn't ASA, Comair, or SkyWest that outsourced the flying, it was contracts negotiated and ratified by mainline. You and your MEC Reps outsourced your flying.
• We agree that Regional guys need to raise their own boat and perform their own heavy lifting to get their contracts up to par. TSA was trying to do just that when their management (same people, same building, same desks, same maintenance, etc...) just set up an alter ego seniority list for those who were willing to step around ALPA and TSA pilots. Some crossed the line.
• ALPA did the right thing in their single carrier petition, but Teamsters aligned themselves with management to fight for the alter ego replacement pilots. Teamsters was the winner.

You have to think about HOW regional pilots can improve their wages and working conditions. You can't just demand change, you have to have power to make it happen. That power comes from scope... the power to force the company to use only seniority list pilots.

GoJets was, and is, and end run around the attempts of TSA pilots to achieve recognition of their seniority, pay and working conditions.

Bla, bla, bla round and round we go. Check your facts on how and why GJ was created. Stop spinning it into your support by using words like alter ego and "crossed the line". If the evil all knowing management conspired in their offices on how to piss off pilots and magically somehow get a second sonority list for GJ so they could pay substandard wages and further cheapen their bottom line HOW THEN do GJ pilot have better pay and a better contract than TSA???? Signed by the same management. I'm sorry but all your arguments do not hold GJ is just like any other regional out there and their formation didnt' affect anybody except for the poor TSA lifers, even then it's not as if they couldn't have had the flying. Mesa airlines, Skywest, and others have their share of skeletons how come nobody is pissed at them. I certainly know MESA has further brought this industry down then any other carrier out there, why is there no out rage for pilots over there? All the hypocrisy is just too much.

And those who are non-TSA who dislike gojets I challenge you to prove to us how the formation of GJ has negatively affected you. I'm particulary curious to hear from mainline guys or the poster's above "family memebers on mainline hiring boards"........... I don't want to hear from a CRJ9 pilot who flys 22 per hour from LAX to SLC, we know where you stand.

 

[AirCobra]

AirCobra,

As another guy who drove the Garrett 331 powered sewerpipe, before the corporate gig, before the regional, before the legacy, I thought I'd agree with your post. However, you missed a couple of important points

• The mainline pilots negotiated scope without the input of the regional ALPA members. It wasn't ASA, Comair, or SkyWest that outsourced the flying, it was contracts negotiated and ratified by mainline. You and your MEC Reps outsourced your flying.
• We agree that Regional guys need to raise their own boat and perform their own heavy lifting to get their contracts up to par. TSA was trying to do just that when their management (same people, same building, same desks, same maintenance, etc...) just set up an alter ego seniority list for those who were willing to step around ALPA and TSA pilots. Some crossed the line.
• ALPA did the right thing in their single carrier petition, but Teamsters aligned themselves with management to fight for the alter ego replacement pilots. Teamsters was the winner.

You have to think about HOW regional pilots can improve their wages and working conditions. You can't just demand change, you have to have power to make it happen. That power comes from scope... the power to force the company to use only seniority list pilots.

GoJets was, and is, and end run around the attempts of TSA pilots to achieve recognition of their seniority, pay and working conditions.

Which they gained by taking flying away from mainline United, American, and American Eagle. How do you think TSA got into the position where they needed bigger RJ's in the first place? At the expense of others.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

...so who here has actually been furloughed? Who here doesnt have a job anymore? Just wondering...

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Air Cobra's history lesson was SPOT on. I too was one of those pilots who did things the hard way, instructing, SE freight, multi-freight, metros, saabs, etc. (after flying helos in the Army, which did me no good in the mid 90's).

Mainline should have never given away the scope for the regional jets and held the line. They didn't, and the RUSH to the bottom of the barrel started. Thanks to 9-11 and now the price of oil, pilots just can't run to the lowest paying jobs fast enough.

I find it disturbingly comical that these TSA pilots are bitching about the whole existance of GoJet. Rumors are flying as to what's going to happen including a comical rumor of a merger and TSA pilots keeping their seniority if it happened. No way in hell Hulas would do that if you know him and his history.

There are going to be hundreds of furloughed TSA pilots looking for a job. Want to bet where as many of them as possible apply? But those who do NOT get furloughed will not let their own furloughees jumpseat now (and if htey do that, they'll be fired). It is sickly comical and disgusting at the same time. Grow up.

There really are some ignorant idiots on this thread from TSA. It's comical how they bitch about how GJ is an alter-ego airline, as they fly Eagle-owned jets and aircraft painted with American's colors on them, and before that, flew airplanes with TWA's colors on them, even when TWA had furloughed pilots. Talk about pot calling the kettle black. Yet they don't see it that way. Haha.

All regionals are alter-ego airlines by these same assinine definitions, as proved by Air Cobra's post. GJ PROVED not only in court but with the NMB that they are NOT (unlike Freedom, which was proved to be).

Bottom line is, all regionals stole their flying from someone else. There are NO exceptions. The argument these TSA crybabies are making, quite frankly, "doesn't hold up in court", pun intended, and when the AA contract goes away, they are going to need a job. Hmmmm. Let's see how long they flip burgers at burger king as NO ONE is hiring pilots. Oh. Maybe they'll apply to Net Jets! Oh, wait. After the United lay-off announcement Net Jets got 600 United pilot resumes. Good luck competing with them. And every other pilot in the Country.

You TSA guys need to wake up, especially if you're not in the top 250 pilots. You may be on the chopping block. You're gonna dis and deny GoJet pilots? Moronic.

 

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Which they gained by taking flying away from mainline United, American, and American Eagle. How do you think TSA got into the position where they needed bigger RJ's in the first place? At the expense of others.

Yes and no. Who made the decision to allow their flying to be outsourced?

Mainline pilots negotiated their own scope.

There is difference between TSA guys performing flying that has been outsourced as a result of an agreement ratified by mainline pilots and an airline's operation using pilots to replace those taking a stand in negotiations with management. The distinction is clear.

Blah, blah, blah.... I'm particulary curious to hear from mainline guys

I fly 767's with Options Slave's buddy.