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I own a NetJets share. I have a card with another frax (not FLOPs). I have it because I am happy with the service and safety and the terms are more in my favor for what I need than a Marquis card. Theoretically, if my card pilots went on strike, do some of you say that my NJ pilots should research me to see if I own another card (which happens to be in a corporate name other than my NJ share) or share, to determine if I am struck work? You guys are stretching this waaaaaaaaaaaay too far. For example, if FLOPS is struck and pays for the flight it is struck work. If I use more than I supplier for services (which we do in many areas) it is not struck work.
Fly safe. And pay attention to your families and hobbies so you have some other life than beat this struck work issue to death.
Look, I don't condone SCAB work. I am very much in favor of 1108 getting a fair contract. I just ask you (the "general" you) to keep one thing in mind when terms like "struck work" and "SCAB" are thrown around with charter pilots in mind. You (1108) will not be able to get Captain John Smith from ABC Charter his job back when your contract is resloved.
Be careful Turbo....you are contradicting yourself a little.
I agree with NJAowner.....if it is a different provider it is NOT struck work. If a guy is paid to fly a FLOPS tailnumber, then that is absolutely struck work.
Good luck to all involved. I am taking NJAowners advice and heading out to do the hobby (golf, that is)
Cheers!
Ed is you you former management now line pilot that lived in CLE and now lives in Montana. Go ahead deny it but I know the truth. Also go ahead and deny that you are receiving check airman pay even though you aren't a check airman. Life is good when you are one of Bob's chosen ones isn't it? Nice pay for being one of Bob's boys. Just keep pushing Ed and I will continue to air your dirty laundry. If you are soooo concerned about the financial health of the company Ed why don't you give back the check airman override. I'm sure they could put that money to use somehow since they are too strapped to pay anyone other than you well. I know in your miond you earn that money because you are "special" Ed.
Show me where.
It sounds like he was either (a) smart enough to negotiate a higher level of compensation or (b) knew the right people and exploited his advantage.
I wouldn't consider this "dirty laundry." This is something people should try to emulate rather than denounce. You are fighting for better pay? Well, "Ed" has managed to pull it off and now you're mad at him. Go figure.
Sorry, I misread NJA owners post that you highlighted....you were consistant. My apologies.
I still think you may want to reconsider your stance on management using charter companies during a strike. Think about it.....it will cost them probably twice as much to charter the trips. They will run out of money A LOT quicker, and this will further strengthen your negotiating posture.
I don't think that any pilot running Charter for FLOPS during a strike should be considered a SCAB unless they get hired by FLOPS and fly FLOPS aircraft.
1. I accept your apology.
2. As for the economics of changing the traditional stance of the way that unions deal with management, I’ll leave that up to the union leadership.
3. I will henceforth not use the word SCAB in the context that someone is knowingly or unknowingly flying struck work. I’ll let the union decide the definition of scab. However, I will not change my personal definition of struck work.
Thank you and everyone else for the civility that still comes through, even in a heated discussion.
Once again, my opinions are my own.
First of all: ED? Who?
Second, I don't think any "junior executives" fly on company airplanes for family vacations. Just how do you define a junior executive anyway?
Finally, I'm still puzzled about this "Ed" thing and that I have some pay to give back.
Senior leadership may be self serving, but it's their company. Their personal investment. I seriously doubt they would abuse it to the point of breaking - or even abuse it at all. What would you do in their position?
It sounds like he was either (a) smart enough to negotiate a higher level of compensation or (b) knew the right people and exploited his advantage.
I wouldn't consider this "dirty laundry." This is something people should try to emulate rather than denounce. You are fighting for better pay? Well, "Ed" has managed to pull it off and now you're mad at him. Go figure.
FLOPS most likely will try to charter out some of their trips. They will have to supplement their management pilots and in-house scabs somehow. Therefore, charter pilots, and the company they work for, will have some soul searching to do.
The most obvious situation would be a charter pilot looks at his trip sheet and sees that FLOPS is the customer. FLOPS is on strike. If he does the trip, he is flying struck work and is a SCAB.
Turbo. I support what FLOPS pilots are trying to accomplish and I wish them nothing but the best. However, your thoughts on scabs are completely off into the la-la-land.
Are you suggesting that charter pilots now have a responsibility to investegate their trip sheet to determine whether they're flying any FLOPS clients? How do you propose they do this? Search online? Make phone calls? Ask pax directly? And if they do discover that they're doing a FLOPS trip, what should be done about it? Tell the pax to get off? Call the office and say they can't accept the trip because of FLOPS deal? How do you think that'll go over? Remember that trips are assigned by the company and not chosen by the crew.
Furthermore, if a charter pilot does go to the bat for you and do refuse such trips, as you demand, he/she most likely will get fired for it. Remember that most of these charter pilots are non-union and therefore are not protected. Will you and your union then come to his/her aid, provide benefits, and help out with job placement and such? When FLOPS pilots do get a better contract, will those charter pilots who stuck their necks out for you get a piece of the pie? No? Why not? Because they're not one of you? Yet you're demanding that they go into the battle on your behalf at significant risk to themselves? What gives?
As mentioned before, a scab in this case is someone who takes a job at FLOPS and flys FLOPS airplanes while there's a strike at FLOPS. Charter pilots are employed by their respective companies and flys its own airplanes. They're NOT taking any jobs away from any FLOPS pilot and are NOT scabs. Neither are any mechanic, linemen, FBO customer service rep, caterer, ATC controller, kid with a lemonade stand, and his/her dog who interacts or does business with FLOPS.
Okay...but the Korean kids are still scabs, right?
Down with Nike...?
If the struck company is arranging the flight, because their own plane is grounded by a strike, then that is in my opinion struck work.