FLOPS Strike ballots are being sent out !!!

[o2bflyn]

I truly do feel for the Options pilots in this situation, but it's asking a bit much for others to risk their jobs to help yours, with no reward.

I agree with that 110%

 

[ArtVandalay]

Maybe this is what Options wants. A strike will happen and then they can sell the business and all of you will be screwed. Don't put it past them. I'd vote yes in a heartbeat though, good luck.

 

[glasspilot]

If there were a strike the guys on the picket line should be HAPPY to see a charter come in and fly the trips. It's bleeding the coffers of FLOPS management and that's what you would want...the company to bleed and realize it's far cheaper to get a CBA with the current pilots...who are just across the street...with big signs to help identify them....in uniform....walking in circles....shouting....


why is this hard?

 

[o2bflyn]

If there were a strike the guys on the picket line should be HAPPY to see a charter come in and fly the trips. It's bleeding the coffers of FLOPS management and that's what you would want...the company to bleed and realize it's far cheaper to get a CBA with the current pilots...who are just across the street...with big signs to help identify them....in uniform....walking in circles....shouting....


why is this hard?

EXACTLY!!! Glad someone else finally gets this point....

 

[jetwash]

If there were a strike the guys on the picket line should be HAPPY to see a charter come in and fly the trips. It's bleeding the coffers of FLOPS management and that's what you would want...the company to bleed and realize it's far cheaper to get a CBA with the current pilots...who are just across the street...with big signs to help identify them....in uniform....walking in circles....shouting....


why is this hard?

I agree as well. We all know how much FLOPS likes to put their customer on charter aircraft. Plus if the owners wanted to fly on charter aircraft they would not have bought shares or cards with FLOPS.

 

[skanza]

If there were a strike the guys on the picket line should be HAPPY to see a charter come in and fly the trips. It's bleeding the coffers of FLOPS management and that's what you would want...the company to bleed and realize it's far cheaper to get a CBA with the current pilots...who are just across the street...with big signs to help identify them....in uniform....walking in circles....shouting....


why is this hard?

It's hard because it doesn't make sense. Let's see: Cause the company to bleed dry because of your silly stike action. Yes, the very company -or source- that you want your increased salary to come from. So then after the bleeding, there's nothing. No increase, not even your former "low" salary.
Yeah, that makes fu(kin' sense....

 

[T-1GUY]

The red-eyed A$$hole just spoke... Anyone got some toilet paper???

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

It's hard because it doesn't make sense. Let's see: Cause the company to bleed dry because of your silly stike action. Yes, the very company -or source- that you want your increased salary to come from. So then after the bleeding, there's nothing. No increase, not even your former "low" salary.
Yeah, that makes fu(kin' sense....

"If we don't fix things around here we (Flight Options) will get the union we deserve." You know who that quote is from Ed? It was your sponser Bob Tyler in a meeting shortly before the union vote. Here is the thing Ed, management created and hasn't fixed the problems at Flight Options. They could have done it before the union vote or afterwards via a contract. They haven't. So far instead they have chosen to engage in a pissing contest with the employees. They are now facing their last opportunity to do the right thing by working with the pilots to start to fix the company. If not, guess what, you are right there may be no company left. In that case management, the pilots, the other employees, and even people on "special deals" like you will lose. This has turned into a very dangerous game of chicken which may yield no winners. Fix the problems or close the doors so quality employers like Netjets can expand.

 

[jonjuan]

Fix the problems or close the doors so quality employers like Netjets can expand.

does quality include losing $350 million in 6 months? Don't think they are exactly expanding-they are continuing to shrink under the new hatchet-man, sokol.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

does quality include losing $350 million in 6 months? Don't think they are exactly expanding-they are continuing to shrink under the new hatchet-man, sokol.

NetJets loses are based on the fact that they have excess capacity. If Options management chooses to continue on the present self destructive course Flight Options owners will be looking for lift at the competition which should solve Netjets capacity issues.

 

[o2bflyn]

It's hard because it doesn't make sense. Let's see: Cause the company to bleed dry because of your silly stike action. Yes, the very company -or source- that you want your increased salary to come from. So then after the bleeding, there's nothing. No increase, not even your former "low" salary.
Yeah, that makes fu(kin' sense....

Are you sure you know anything about business?

If the company is intelligent enough, they wont bleed dry from chartering out. They will realize the best course of action is to come to an agreement with the union BEFORE the cash runs out.

In my personal opinion, that is why NJA farmed out so much charter in 2004. They wanted to dwindle their cash reserve to improve their negotiating stance, but they also wanted to see what their capacity would be if/when the pilots went on strike. They knew how long they could last....then they decided to come to an agreement that kept them from having to go bankrupt because of a strike. It was good business and it worked out pretty well for both parties.

 

[Ben Dover FLOPS]

It's hard because it doesn't make sense. Let's see: Cause the company to bleed dry because of your silly stike action. Yes, the very company -or source- that you want your increased salary to come from. So then after the bleeding, there's nothing. No increase, not even your former "low" salary.
Yeah, that makes fu(kin' sense....

You fool! Nobody WANTS to strike! At some points it is absolutely necessary and the only way to achieve fair working conditions for good people. If we are forced to strike, we will. and it will be with the full force of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, not to mention other labor groups.

The alternative is to lie down and take it from the company, just as you do, Scumza, every day. I wonder: do you ever get used to that kind of treatment? What do your wife and kids think of you?

 

[skanza]

You fool! Nobody WANTS to strike! At some points it is absolutely necessary and the only way to achieve fair working conditions for good people. If we are forced to strike, we will. and it will be with the full force of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, not to mention other labor groups.

The alternative is to lie down and take it from the company, just as you do, Scumza, every day. I wonder: do you ever get used to that kind of treatment? What do your wife and kids think of you?

At what point is it absolutely necessary? Sure the 401k thing sucks, there's supposedly a %40 deficiency in pay. But what about the offers presented? The pay increase across the board, the flexible schedules, the 7X7 duty time, the job security? What about the improved meal and lodging changes that have taken place? Do these all mean nothing? Are you that greedy? You know the 401k applies to all employees, not just us. You act as if we're targeted with it. Plus, has anybody taken a pay cut? Don't tell me things like the 401k thing and lack of a raise recently equal that. I'm asking if anyone is being paid a lower salary than they agreed to when hired. This is the way you're treating the whole situation.

Oh, and the wife and kids thing, waaaayyy off. As if you know me anyway.

 

[dime line]

At what point is it absolutely necessary? Sure the 401k thing sucks, there's supposedly What hole are you in a %40 deficiency in pay. But what about the offers presented? The pay increase across the board, the flexible schedules, the 7X7 duty time, the job security? What about the improved meal and lodging changes Oh ok you mean the improved lodging that we use to have that have taken place? Do these all mean nothing? Are you that greedy? Yes You know the 401k applies to all employees, not just us. Agreed You act as if we're targeted with it. Plus, has anybody taken a pay cut? . Ummm Yes Don't tell me things like the 401k thing and lack of a raise recently equal that. How do they not ahole I'm asking if anyone is being paid a lower salary than they agreed to when hired. This is the way you're treating the whole situation.

Oh, and the wife and kids thing, waaaayyy off. As if you know me anyway.

Your such a moron,

 

[William Holiday]

Hey Skanza did you apply at F$H, or some other like minded firm, or you working contract for whoever. Your the only consistant poster of your ilk left.

 

[1folinepilot]

At what point is it absolutely necessary? Sure the 401k thing sucks, there's supposedly a %40 deficiency in pay. But what about the offers presented? The pay increase across the board, the flexible schedules, the 7X7 duty time, the job security? What about the improved meal and lodging changes that have taken place? Do these all mean nothing? Are you that greedy? You know the 401k applies to all employees, not just us. You act as if we're targeted with it. Plus, has anybody taken a pay cut? Don't tell me things like the 401k thing and lack of a raise recently equal that. I'm asking if anyone is being paid a lower salary than they agreed to when hired. This is the way you're treating the whole situation.

Oh, and the wife and kids thing, waaaayyy off. As if you know me anyway.

YES!!!! A vast majority of the pilots that came over from Travel Air had their salary "Adjusted for theoretical aircraft deliveries and upgrade dates" thus loosing thousands of dollars of wages as management pushed back upgrade and aniversary dates on positions that were rightfully earned and flown. All the pilots had to endure the "slide to parity" or go back to year one for upgrades. THIS WAS A DIRECT CUT IN SALARY!!!!!

To continue with the cut list, All non-SFO employees had their pay cut below "industry standard per Kenn Ricci" to fund the SFO program at no cost to the company, All have had their benifit costs drastically increased and level of coverage decreased, All have lost their 401K match, a large group of the pilots have been capped and denied vacation thus loosing earned vacation hours, quality of crew food has decreased to the point of being inedible, the pilots have lost paid parking at their home domicile, CLE pilots lost their CLE domicile pay, Shall I continue with the list?

Post the company's offer for us to review Skanza as their glee about raises and schedules are meaningless without solid SCOPE protection.

 

[fracjack]

YES!!!! A vast majority of the pilots that came over from Travel Air had their salary "Adjusted for theoretical aircraft deliveries and upgrade dates" thus loosing thousands of dollars of wages as management pushed back upgrade and aniversary dates on positions that were rightfully earned and flown. All the pilots had to endure the "slide to parity" or go back to year one for upgrades. THIS WAS A DIRECT CUT IN SALARY!!!!!

100 percent true statement and a huge increase in retraining costs

 

[Myster79]

Guys ignore Skanza, he is a nobody. Why let a a scumbag scab anger you? They lost the fight, they had the chance to make it right and they decided against the right action. There would be no strike vote if the company would have done the right thing over 3 years ago. Hell, there would be no union. They chose this road and now they will have to live with the consequences. Skanza and his lackey's don't deserve a response from us.

 

[LarryinTN]

The charter pilot in question would not be working for FLOPS rather he/she would be working for his/her charter company.

The theory is pretty simple. Follow the money.

If the work is being done for the struck company then it's struck work. i.e. if the customer is paying the struck company then the struck company is hiring an outside contractor to preform the work then it's struck work.

If the customer is taking money that he otherwise would have paid to the struck company and paying it to another company for the same service then it is not struck work.

Look at the recent Amerijet strike. Many non-Amerijet pilots refused charters for Amerijet because they would have been struck work. Cargo crews were checking their cargo for signs that Amerijet cargo had been loaded on their airplanes and, if found, having it removed.

 

[SilverSurfer]

What Planet Do You Live On

At what point is it absolutely necessary? Sure the 401k thing sucks, there's supposedly a %40 deficiency in pay. But what about the offers presented? The pay increase across the board, the flexible schedules, the 7X7 duty time, the job security? What about the improved meal and lodging changes that have taken place? Do these all mean nothing? Are you that greedy? You know the 401k applies to all employees, not just us. You act as if we're targeted with it. Plus, has anybody taken a pay cut? Don't tell me things like the 401k thing and lack of a raise recently equal that. I'm asking if anyone is being paid a lower salary than they agreed to when hired. This is the way you're treating the whole situation.

Oh, and the wife and kids thing, waaaayyy off. As if you know me anyway.

At what point is it “a strike" absolutely necessary? It becomes necessary to strike when all other means of negotiations have been exhausted. It becomes necessary to strike when management makes it clear that they need help understanding the level of our resolve. It becomes necessary to strike when management needs to understand that the cost of obstinate procrastination is more expensive and damaging to the company then reaching a fair agreement.

Sure the 401k thing sucks, there's supposedly a %40 deficiency in pay. Yes it does suck, big time. It sucks to the tee of about $6500 a year. Any moron can go to any of the sites that list the pay for the different fractionals to determine how little we are paid relative to the others. If we are talking about N.J. its more then 40% and the company has been enjoying this highly reduced pay for years.

But what about the offers presented? The pay increase across the board, the flexible schedules, the 7X7 duty time, the job security? Oh you mean the BS 10% across the board increase that management proposed, its an insult to all of the pilots that have been dedicated to the success of this company for years. The proposal that we go back to year one reset for pay on an aircraft up grade rather than pay by date of hire, what a joke and pay by weight, another joke. Oh yes, you mean the 7&7 that you take a huge pay cut for, another joke. There can be no job security without a ironclad Scope section of the contract. Management has been much less than forthcoming with specific information requested by our lawyers relative to the Scope section. So there is/was no job security…!!!!

What about the improved meal and lodging changes that have taken place? You mean the meal and lodging standards that were pushed into the dirt by Sh!tfinger & company being restored to where they should be. What about them?????

Do these all mean nothing? They obviously mean nothing to you.

Are you that greedy? It is not greed by any stretch of the imagination, its expecting industry standard. We are not a mom & pop operation. We are supposed to be a industry leader, at least that’s what we advertise to our customers, that’s what management keeps telling us. As an industry leader we should expect industry leading pay not what is really below mom & pop pay. Management can’t have it both ways.

You know the 401k applies to all employees, not just us. All this means is that the rest of the company, other then management, has been made to suffer just so management could make their bargaining hand at the table a little better.

You act as if we're targeted with it. The pilots were not specifically targeted, negotiations were the target.

Plus, has anybody taken a pay cut? Well let see, I already mentioned the $6000+ that I have lost with the 401K, then there has been the 1.5% loss I have taken every year because our pay increases do not even keep pace with CPI and COL. So yes I have take a cut in pay. Then there has been the ridiculous increases in the health benefits and reduction in services along with it. So yes we have taken very real pay cuts.

Don't tell me things like the 401k thing and lack of a raise recently equal that. Covered above.

I'm asking if anyone is being paid a lower salary than they agreed to when hired. I’m sorry but this is just a stupid question. Most of us have been here for many years and most all of us, at least those of us that understand what is being fought for at the negotiations table, would not still be here if we were paid less then when we started. Dare I ask if you would still be here if you were paid less then when you were hired?

This is the way you're treating the whole situation. You are treating the situation as if management can do no wrong, as if you would be happy to work for peanuts just to be here, as if the rest of the fractional industry is wrong and you and management are right, as if the rest of us should not appreciate ourselves as the professionals we are and also be happy with the same peanuts you are willing to accept. I think not!!!!!

Oh, and the wife and kids thing, waaaayyy off. As if you know me anyway. I don’t know you but considering the ideas you seem to champion on this board you have very little concern for their future and well being.