glasspilot
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FLOPS Strike ballots are being sent out !!!
- Thread starter jetwash
- Start date
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Problem here is that Flopses union leader doesent have the Balls to stand up to management..so they want to bully anyone they can and every pilot that reads a article about Flops striking is going to be threatened with being put on a scab list..Let me ask you this??? Why dont you finish the contract or take it to a strike..dont you think 3.5 years has been enough time???
993_Pilot
MIGS
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You obviously don't have any idea how the RLA works.
William Holiday
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The word is the 1108 mgmt team is well aware of Flight Options limitations and strengths. That being said, they are giving Flight Options every consideration before a declaration of WAR/STRIKE is called. After almost eight years of this, now is not the time to be quick on the trigger. My guess/hope is that this is a WIN/WIN FOR EVERYONE.
Time will tell.
8 years????? is being quick on the trigger???? If thats being quick on the trigger I would hate to see a slow draw!!!
William Holiday
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Talk to your respective Pilot Group about why it took so long, to get this far.
William Holiday
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Only if you don't include the RTA pilot effort. Remember, this drive started way back then. That's why the current 1108 mgmt team is to be thanked. They have been very persistant in their efforts, and have turned this group into "one mind" with one honest goal.
Narrow Bridge
Active member
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- 43
The industry standarf contract got NetJets real far huh.....
FROM THE UNION PRESIDENT
Dear Crewmember,
NetJets Chairman and CEO David Sokol characterized the furlough mitigation concepts proffered by NJASAP as his first experience with a labor advocate in more than 30 years who had come forward with a constructive strategy that had the potential to provide genuine relief in the midst of a very difficult situation. Unfortunately, the state of affairs that greeted Mr. Sokol when he arrived in Columbus in early August has made it exceedingly difficult to enter into negotiations intended to prevent a reduction in force.
Earlier in the week, the Executive Board received a letter from Mr. Sokol confirming receipt of our request to engage in furlough mitigation talks. The correspondence did not indicate whether the Company would participate in a renewed effort; however, they confirmed they were reviewing our material. The next day I placed a call to Labor Relations Vice President Mike Maratto requesting a meeting with Mr. Sokol; late Wednesday evening I received word from Mr. Maratto that he and Mr. Sokol would meet with us Thursday afternoon. Vice President of Financial Affairs Capt. Jeff Burrows accompanied me to that meeting. We were also joined by NetJets North America President Bill Noe.
During this consequential meeting, we learned the time frame for restructuring the Company is longer than anticipated and beyond the two-year timeline incorporated into our furlough mitigation strategy. According to the Sokol team, if NetJets was only responding to the economic downturn, then it was highly probable they would have engaged in renewed talks; however, Mr. Sokol explained throughout the past several years various pieces of the business model have become convoluted and that the extent and timeframe of the NetJets restructuring effort far exceed what was originally anticipated.Combined, these challenges have created an environment in which it would be almost impossible to conduct negotiations because there are too many unidentified variables.
Simply put, the Company agreed with the numbers we put forward; however, they indicated it is not feasible to engage in continued mitigation efforts due to other issues – many of which remain in flux. For example, fundamental changes that have and will likely continue to be made to the card programs and the formula for determining aircraft shares preclude NetJets from locking itself into an agreement with strict parameters. Sadly, years of impulsive decision making have taken their toll: The Company, the industry leader, finds itself in a position in which it must identify and firmly establish its baseline. It has become apparent although the previous management team agreed to the Joint Preventive Measures Campaign launched earlier this year, in the longer term, they have done us no favors.
I acknowledge this message is certainly not filled with welcome news; however, I believe Mr. Sokol and his team are endeavoring to make sound decisions intended to secure NetJets long-term viability. While his team’s direction may seem callous to those who have been detrimentally affected by the restructuring effort, they are working to ensure NetJets emerges stronger and viable in the long term. The Company has a great deal to fix and we can expect NetJets to be a very bottom-line-oriented operation for quite some time. That said, Mr. Sokol confirmed he has no intention of asking the pilot group for concessions and intends to honor the Collective Bargaining Agreement in its entirety.
To say the very least, I found Mr. Sokol’s honesty a refreshing change. Most other companies would have attempted to take advantage of our efforts, using our furlough mitigation concepts as a backdoor to secure concessions. While NJASAP is positioned to protect itself from such nefarious practices, NetJets, under Mr. Sokol’s leadership, appears to be acting ethically.
Although I was heartened by his candor, he left little room for doubt that a pilot furlough is imminent. Telling our junior crewmembers, the men and women I have been elected to serve, that they are likely to be affected by a reduction in force is a responsibility carried out with profound regret; however, I am compelled to ensure each NJASAP member is aware of and can prepare for the realities of our situation.
As airplanes are sold or placed in permanent disposal status, that reality becomes even starker. Based on information received via official information request, the Company is only contractually required to maintain a minimum staffing level of five pilots per aircraft, bringing the maximum number of pilots they could furlough to 560. This number is based on the number of aircraft currently in the fleet; however, the Encore, having been placed in disposal status late last week, and the BBJ scheduled for the same fate early next year, mean additional pilots could be affected. At that point, furloughing to minimum staffing levels is not feasible as it would be difficult to adequately cover flight operations. Whether it becomes necessary to furlough a second round of pilots in late 2010 will depend on flight demand and the success of NetJets’ reinvigorated marketing campaign. The second round, if required, is expected to affect fewer pilots than the first.
In light of these developments, NJASAP will now divide its attention between continued efforts to decrease the number of furloughed pilots and an initiative to ensure our junior crewmembers have access to the resources necessary to navigate this very difficult time. The Furlough Working Group (FWG) is currently finalizing the first phase of its efforts, which will be discussed, in detail, during the first of four teleconferences scheduled for each Wednesday in November; each teleconference will begin at 8 p.m. (ET) and pilot spouses are encouraged to participate. More information about the teleconference series is provided below.
One component of the FWG’s efforts is likely to be a voluntary campaign whereby active line pilots may contribute to a fund, via payroll deduction, that would be distributed to furloughed crewmembers. The group is currently reviewing various distribution schemas that will outline when and how these financial resources are disbursed. The Company, on Thursday, agreed to allow the deduction provided it complies with all applicable laws and regulations; additional information about the FWG’s work can be found below.
Other FWG initiatives include:
1) seven-month dues refund for active NJASAP members,
2) a FWG Information & Resource Booklet,
3) a NetJets Family Foundation letter and application,
4) aviation job service subscription information,
5) posting business aviation employment opportunities obtained
through NBAA in the Pilot Employment Forum of the NJASAP Message Boards on a regular basis, and
6) instructions for submitting pilot resumes to FWG members who
will upload them to a secure database that will be made available to contract and corporate operators.
While we will continue to explore every available option to keep our pilots working, the membership, as a whole, will play a critical role in the weeks and months ahead by maintaining the level of solidarity that has served us so well. Similar to the shared sense of responsibility that drove the Joint Preventive Measures Campaign’s success, supporting our furloughed pilots and hastening their return to the line will require we remain true to the pilots taking care of pilots philosophy. In addition to staying in contact with those colleagues affected by the likely reduction in force and offering whatever financial assistance you have the wherewithal to provide, NJASAP will seek to educate the pilot group about the best and most conscientious strategies we can practice relative to scheduling and extended day considerations. With our collective interests in mind, Union leaders will ensure the membership understands how their choices affect a furlough.
I want to emphasize NJASAP will not forget about its crewmembers affected by the likely reduction in force. So long as even one pilot is furloughed, we will continue to seek your return to active flying status. It is true that we will need to overcome a number of challenges; however, we have the fortitude and resources to stay the course no matter how long it takes.
When NetJets will choose to serve the furlough notice is unknown. We are scheduled to meet with Company executives on Thursday, Nov. 5, to discuss their staffing evaluation and fleet planning strategy. We should, at the meeting’s conclusion, have hard data that will allow us to more accurately plan for events going forward. In the meantime, please continue to contact the Executive Board with your questions and concerns.
Fraternally,
Capt. Mark Luthi
[email protected]
FROM THE UNION PRESIDENT
Dear Crewmember,
NetJets Chairman and CEO David Sokol characterized the furlough mitigation concepts proffered by NJASAP as his first experience with a labor advocate in more than 30 years who had come forward with a constructive strategy that had the potential to provide genuine relief in the midst of a very difficult situation. Unfortunately, the state of affairs that greeted Mr. Sokol when he arrived in Columbus in early August has made it exceedingly difficult to enter into negotiations intended to prevent a reduction in force.
Earlier in the week, the Executive Board received a letter from Mr. Sokol confirming receipt of our request to engage in furlough mitigation talks. The correspondence did not indicate whether the Company would participate in a renewed effort; however, they confirmed they were reviewing our material. The next day I placed a call to Labor Relations Vice President Mike Maratto requesting a meeting with Mr. Sokol; late Wednesday evening I received word from Mr. Maratto that he and Mr. Sokol would meet with us Thursday afternoon. Vice President of Financial Affairs Capt. Jeff Burrows accompanied me to that meeting. We were also joined by NetJets North America President Bill Noe.
During this consequential meeting, we learned the time frame for restructuring the Company is longer than anticipated and beyond the two-year timeline incorporated into our furlough mitigation strategy. According to the Sokol team, if NetJets was only responding to the economic downturn, then it was highly probable they would have engaged in renewed talks; however, Mr. Sokol explained throughout the past several years various pieces of the business model have become convoluted and that the extent and timeframe of the NetJets restructuring effort far exceed what was originally anticipated.Combined, these challenges have created an environment in which it would be almost impossible to conduct negotiations because there are too many unidentified variables.
Simply put, the Company agreed with the numbers we put forward; however, they indicated it is not feasible to engage in continued mitigation efforts due to other issues – many of which remain in flux. For example, fundamental changes that have and will likely continue to be made to the card programs and the formula for determining aircraft shares preclude NetJets from locking itself into an agreement with strict parameters. Sadly, years of impulsive decision making have taken their toll: The Company, the industry leader, finds itself in a position in which it must identify and firmly establish its baseline. It has become apparent although the previous management team agreed to the Joint Preventive Measures Campaign launched earlier this year, in the longer term, they have done us no favors.
I acknowledge this message is certainly not filled with welcome news; however, I believe Mr. Sokol and his team are endeavoring to make sound decisions intended to secure NetJets long-term viability. While his team’s direction may seem callous to those who have been detrimentally affected by the restructuring effort, they are working to ensure NetJets emerges stronger and viable in the long term. The Company has a great deal to fix and we can expect NetJets to be a very bottom-line-oriented operation for quite some time. That said, Mr. Sokol confirmed he has no intention of asking the pilot group for concessions and intends to honor the Collective Bargaining Agreement in its entirety.
To say the very least, I found Mr. Sokol’s honesty a refreshing change. Most other companies would have attempted to take advantage of our efforts, using our furlough mitigation concepts as a backdoor to secure concessions. While NJASAP is positioned to protect itself from such nefarious practices, NetJets, under Mr. Sokol’s leadership, appears to be acting ethically.
Although I was heartened by his candor, he left little room for doubt that a pilot furlough is imminent. Telling our junior crewmembers, the men and women I have been elected to serve, that they are likely to be affected by a reduction in force is a responsibility carried out with profound regret; however, I am compelled to ensure each NJASAP member is aware of and can prepare for the realities of our situation.
As airplanes are sold or placed in permanent disposal status, that reality becomes even starker. Based on information received via official information request, the Company is only contractually required to maintain a minimum staffing level of five pilots per aircraft, bringing the maximum number of pilots they could furlough to 560. This number is based on the number of aircraft currently in the fleet; however, the Encore, having been placed in disposal status late last week, and the BBJ scheduled for the same fate early next year, mean additional pilots could be affected. At that point, furloughing to minimum staffing levels is not feasible as it would be difficult to adequately cover flight operations. Whether it becomes necessary to furlough a second round of pilots in late 2010 will depend on flight demand and the success of NetJets’ reinvigorated marketing campaign. The second round, if required, is expected to affect fewer pilots than the first.
In light of these developments, NJASAP will now divide its attention between continued efforts to decrease the number of furloughed pilots and an initiative to ensure our junior crewmembers have access to the resources necessary to navigate this very difficult time. The Furlough Working Group (FWG) is currently finalizing the first phase of its efforts, which will be discussed, in detail, during the first of four teleconferences scheduled for each Wednesday in November; each teleconference will begin at 8 p.m. (ET) and pilot spouses are encouraged to participate. More information about the teleconference series is provided below.
One component of the FWG’s efforts is likely to be a voluntary campaign whereby active line pilots may contribute to a fund, via payroll deduction, that would be distributed to furloughed crewmembers. The group is currently reviewing various distribution schemas that will outline when and how these financial resources are disbursed. The Company, on Thursday, agreed to allow the deduction provided it complies with all applicable laws and regulations; additional information about the FWG’s work can be found below.
Other FWG initiatives include:
1) seven-month dues refund for active NJASAP members,
While we will continue to explore every available option to keep our pilots working, the membership, as a whole, will play a critical role in the weeks and months ahead by maintaining the level of solidarity that has served us so well. Similar to the shared sense of responsibility that drove the Joint Preventive Measures Campaign’s success, supporting our furloughed pilots and hastening their return to the line will require we remain true to the pilots taking care of pilots philosophy. In addition to staying in contact with those colleagues affected by the likely reduction in force and offering whatever financial assistance you have the wherewithal to provide, NJASAP will seek to educate the pilot group about the best and most conscientious strategies we can practice relative to scheduling and extended day considerations. With our collective interests in mind, Union leaders will ensure the membership understands how their choices affect a furlough.
I want to emphasize NJASAP will not forget about its crewmembers affected by the likely reduction in force. So long as even one pilot is furloughed, we will continue to seek your return to active flying status. It is true that we will need to overcome a number of challenges; however, we have the fortitude and resources to stay the course no matter how long it takes.
When NetJets will choose to serve the furlough notice is unknown. We are scheduled to meet with Company executives on Thursday, Nov. 5, to discuss their staffing evaluation and fleet planning strategy. We should, at the meeting’s conclusion, have hard data that will allow us to more accurately plan for events going forward. In the meantime, please continue to contact the Executive Board with your questions and concerns.
Fraternally,
Capt. Mark Luthi
[email protected]
Narrow Bridge
Active member
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- Jul 12, 2008
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- 43
wow what a tool.
If NJ pilots were to give up their salaries for 4 years, NJ would still have lost a boat load of cash. Look as the VPs pay and bennies as well. Sounds like in your world nobody will be paid!
Would you be happy if we at FLOPS paid for our own hotels and give the company 500.00 a month to work there. Would that work?
gunfyter
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For your information...
You are FOS.
If NJ made current FLOPS pay ... the P&L statement would have been substantially the same. The current situation has nothing to do with the CBA. It has everything to do with the falling value of airplanes.
Concessions? They may ask. But demand? I have a two letter answer to that question.
Contract? I know what my pay will be all the way to at least May 2013. Do you know what yours will be?
I can't foresee any conditions where concessions would make any sense.
You are FOS.
If NJ made current FLOPS pay ... the P&L statement would have been substantially the same. The current situation has nothing to do with the CBA. It has everything to do with the falling value of airplanes.
Concessions? They may ask. But demand? I have a two letter answer to that question.
Contract? I know what my pay will be all the way to at least May 2013. Do you know what yours will be?
I can't foresee any conditions where concessions would make any sense.
Narrow Bridge
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gunfyter
Well-known member
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So what?
Changes to the CBA require a vote. I vote NO.
I can think of a few concessions I would like my mortgage company to make to me
. Maybe I will demand some.
Last edited:
Narrow is either fishing for responses or near the bottom of NJA's list and wants to tear it down with him/her. How else could he/she access that union letter? It's not something one would hand out to outsiders.
Maybe our folks can determine the name behind the IP and deal with this appropriately. Posting union/company confidential info is grounds for termination. Let someone without an axe to grind move up a number.
Maybe our folks can determine the name behind the IP and deal with this appropriately. Posting union/company confidential info is grounds for termination. Let someone without an axe to grind move up a number.
gunfyter
Well-known member
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Not really hijacked. Bridge is trying to belittle the value of having a contract.
I think its pretty clear having a CBA has nothing to do with whether a company can furlough. And if you want to look at the furlough protections NJ has in its contract ... you'll see how important it is to get a CBA for FLOPS pilots.
I think its pretty clear having a CBA has nothing to do with whether a company can furlough. And if you want to look at the furlough protections NJ has in its contract ... you'll see how important it is to get a CBA for FLOPS pilots.
Narrow Bridge
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gunfyter
Well-known member
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How much can they afford?
If we made ZERO ... they still would have lost 100's of millions.
This has nothing to do with pilot salaries.
William Holiday
Well-known member
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- Oct 5, 2005
- Posts
- 146
If thats the case, why are FO pilots paid the least of any of the jet frac's
with the most laid off at the present.
BTW....Ford just posted a billion dollar profit. You should have bought their stock a 1.00 dollar. You could post for the truth, rather than being a cheap off the rack tool.
gunfyter
Well-known member
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Thats true. FLOPS should be rolling in profits by now...! Or is he saying FLOPS is paid too much already too?
And they should be hiring all the furloughed pilots from other fracs too...!
Last edited:
993_Pilot
MIGS
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- Jul 12, 2008
- Posts
- 569
We all know that NB, Skanza and B19 have an agenda. . . they are all obviously anti-union mouthpieces for Flops Mgt. The realistic among us know that the owner contracts are priced to afford the salaries that NJ pays, and that Flops should be paying. The only reason for the layoffs is the reduction in the flying due to the economy, regardless of which company. Sorry to all of the NJ guys and gals that will soon find themselves out of work, the pilots and Flops understand all too well and wish you the best of luck.
realityman
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EXACTLY!!!!
If we all flew for FREE for this past year, NJA still would've lost mega-bucks.
So then, what's a reasonable salary, NB?
As usual, folks like NB can live smack dab through the worst recession (depression?) since the 1920's, watch almost EVERY company lose money, sales, and shed jobs, see NJA's owners selling back shares at unprecedented rates, and conclude that it's the UNION'S fault and the CBA that NJA is losing money.
Lord help us, it's B19 all over again.
realityman
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- 782
Oh, sorry about going off-topic.
To all you FLOPS guys, yeah, we're furloughing. But thanks to a good CONTRACT, those being furloughed will receive pay for two months afterwards and medical benefits thru April. It isn't much, but it's something. Not to mention recall rights (which we HOPE will happen sometime) and no furloughing out of seniority. Not to mention, the company CAN'T arbitrarily cut our compensation and benefits.
Keep on fighting!! It's worth it!!
Good luck!
To all you FLOPS guys, yeah, we're furloughing. But thanks to a good CONTRACT, those being furloughed will receive pay for two months afterwards and medical benefits thru April. It isn't much, but it's something. Not to mention recall rights (which we HOPE will happen sometime) and no furloughing out of seniority. Not to mention, the company CAN'T arbitrarily cut our compensation and benefits.
Keep on fighting!! It's worth it!!
Good luck!
realityman
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I can think of a few concessions I would like my mortgage company to make to me
Way funny!!:laugh: Think I'm gonna try that too! You may be on to something there Gun.
Hung Start
Just the cleanup guy
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- Sep 12, 2004
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From a management standpoint, having a contract with labor can/should be a plus.
Much like the labor force has an idea what there salaries will be for the next 3 years, management also knows what their costs will be.
How many variables in business can you know for certain when you do your projections?
Prudent and wise management would look at this as smart business.
Hung
Much like the labor force has an idea what there salaries will be for the next 3 years, management also knows what their costs will be.
How many variables in business can you know for certain when you do your projections?
Prudent and wise management would look at this as smart business.
Hung
I'm sure Flex, CS, Avantair, and XO management know to the penny what salaries for the next 3 years will be. What they don't know are revenues.
ProFracPilot
What's it doing now?
- Joined
- May 1, 2003
- Posts
- 701
You are absolutely correct. Management at these companies do know exactly what the salaries will be. Unfortunately, the pilots do not.
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