Flexjet, pilots...

[The Architect]

Over your Head

Wow, so I can be fired or disciplined for listening to what other people have to say? I am sure any lawyer would have a field day with that case.

First, you can get fired or disciplined for anything they so choose. Hell, the don't even have to tell you why. You're an "at will" employee.

On the other point...never mind. You didn't get it and I don't feel like explaining.

In time, you'll figure it out.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

First, you can get fired or disciplined for anything they so choose. Hell, the don't even have to tell you why. You're an "at will" employee.

On the other point...never mind. You didn't get it and I don't feel like explaining.

In time, you'll figure it out.

You are right, you can be fired for anything.

You don't have to have a CBA to sue for wrongful termination.

So, tell me how many pilots at FO gave been fired since you came under the protection of the IBT. I bet the answer isn't zero.

 

[The Architect]

The Difference

You are right, you can be fired for anything.

You don't have to have a CBA to sue for wrongful termination.

So, tell me how many pilots at FO gave been fired since you came under the protection of the IBT. I bet the answer isn't zero.

The statement on being "fired for anything" is misleading. An "at will" employee can be "fired for anything" unless it is discriminatory, i.e. the Civil Rights Act of 1964. An employee that is protected by a CBA cannot be "fired for anything." And if an employee protected by a CBA is fired without "just cause," there is recourse for that persons return and to be "made whole." That protection does not exist for "at will" employees.

As to how many pilots have been fired at the Flight Options group? Well, NONE, unless there was "just cause," not including those on appeal. And don't think that those terminated for "just cause" were just for "getting in trouble." The inability to pass a aircraft check or in an "at fault" accident can get you terminated with "just cause." Another thing is that union representative have negotiated resignations with some benefits rather than termination. That makes a big difference when applying for another job.

Understand this - In the nearly five years that Flight Options pilots have had a CBA, far less disciplinary actions and terminations have occurred than if those pilots did not have a CBA. "Just cause" is the measure. And without it, management can do what they want "at will." Dispute as many other pros and cons of representation that you want...but, you will not, and cannot provide negative consequences of having a "just cause" provision. Of course, unless you are in management.

And back off with the "you" thing... It's useless.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Architect; don't forget about the days when the rules changed as you went along. Follow the SOP's and one day you find out they were changed but the revision didn't even get sent out yet.

 

[EngineThunder]

Just curious, what was the fallout for starting an engine with the engine cover still on? There was cover up too right?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

It was an engine plug, but no matter. Certain pilots get held to a different standard than others. I wonder why?

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

It was an engine plug, but no matter. Certain pilots get held to a different standard than others. I wonder why?

So are you saying he should have been disciplined or even terminated for this event?

 

[slowtation capt]

So are you saying he should have been disciplined or even terminated for this event?

Ok, here is the deal since TWA is trying to bait people down a road a little bit at a time, so he can then say something about the IBT, about the contract, about this or that, which is going to be something negative, and then he can try and say "see, I told you"

Yes by all accounts he should have been disciplined or fired for the actions that occurred and that were taken by him after what was initially a mistake.

Can the IBT or any Union force the company to bring some discipline or actually fire them for something that the company sweep under the rug, NO!
If the company is unwilling to act because for all we know this special guy had a picture of some higher company individual engage in certain Montana broke back mountain sheep activities or whatever it was they had done together, because he certainly has something.
He doesn't get terminated for something of that nature, yet someone else who has a few pictures on Facebook that are meaningless does get fired.
It's amazing how they choose to use their vague "Social Media" policy against a Union supporter/member/committee position holder, but do nothing for their special broke back Montana mountain boy.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

So are you saying he should have been disciplined or even terminated for this event?

TWA/Captain Queeg- the problem wasn't about sucking in the engine plug. The crew flew revenue legs prior to having the engine inspected. Everyone makes mistakes but when the cover-up failed to recognized the risk to passengers? LABEL me part of the cover-up.

 

[EngineThunder]

TWA/Captain Queeg- the problem wasn't about sucking in the engine plug. The crew flew revenue legs prior to having the engine inspected. Everyone makes mistakes but when the cover-up failed to recognized the risk to passengers? LABEL me part of the cover-up.

And the FO was okay with this? Yikes! Full story must be interesting.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

I hear ya Engine! The culture of intimidation was pretty tough in the day-even for someone that was anti-union prior to the Sheringa days. If that FO didn't toe the line, he got "special" treatment from the dispatchers.

 

[dime line]

TWA/Captain Queeg- the problem wasn't about sucking in the engine plug. The crew flew revenue legs prior to having the engine inspected. Everyone makes mistakes but when the cover-up failed to recognized the risk to passengers? LABEL me part of the cover-up.

And the Capt got promoted to Ground instructor

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Ok, here is the deal since TWA is trying to bait people down a road a little bit at a time, so he can then say something about the IBT, about the contract, about this or that, which is going to be something negative, and then he can try and say "see, I told you"

Yes by all accounts he should have been disciplined or fired for the actions that occurred and that were taken by him after what was initially a mistake.

Can the IBT or any Union force the company to bring some discipline or actually fire them for something that the company sweep under the rug, NO!
If the company is unwilling to act because for all we know this special guy had a picture of some higher company individual engage in certain Montana broke back mountain sheep activities or whatever it was they had done together, because he certainly has something.
He doesn't get terminated for something of that nature, yet someone else who has a few pictures on Facebook that are meaningless does get fired.
It's amazing how they choose to use their vague "Social Media" policy against a Union supporter/member/committee position holder, but do nothing for their special broke back Montana mountain boy.

Yes, the union can force the company to discipline or fire somebody. If someone fails to pay their dues, then the union will do those exact things, right?

In case you forgot, here is that section:
11.1(d) If, upon the expiration of the 15 day period, the pilot still remains delinquent, the Union shall certify in writing to the Vice President of Flight Operations with a copy to the pilot that the pilot has failed to remit payment within the grace period allowed and is therefore to be discharged. The Vice President of Flight Operations shall notify the pilot by certified mail, return receipt requested, that he is to be discharged.

So, from what you are saying it would be ok for the company to not discipline a proud Union supporrter, but not someone you don't like, hence the gay terms.

So much for together we stand.

 

[The Architect]

Reaching

Yes, the union can force the company to discipline or fire somebody. If someone fails to pay their dues, then the union will do those exact things, right?

In case you forgot, here is that section:
11.1(d) If, upon the expiration of the 15 day period, the pilot still remains delinquent, the Union shall certify in writing to the Vice President of Flight Operations with a copy to the pilot that the pilot has failed to remit payment within the grace period allowed and is therefore to be discharged. The Vice President of Flight Operations shall notify the pilot by certified mail, return receipt requested, that he is to be discharged.

Now even you know better than that. That is in no way related to provisions associated with "just cause." Reaching deep now, aren't we?

It must be getting harder and harder for you to find cons. Especially when you look back at the posts and see that you have failed to challenge the facts I provided that clarify your inaccuracies.

Must be running out of material over there...

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Now even you know better than that. That is in no way related to provisions associated with "just cause." Reaching deep now, aren't we?

It must be getting harder and harder for you to find cons. Especially when you look back at the posts and see that you have failed to challenge the facts I provided that clarify your inaccuracies.

Must be running out of material over there...

Not really reaching. He said the union could not force the company fire someone, I was showing him where he was wrong.

I am not the one who needs material, it is your side.

You are the ones that need to convince the FJ pilots, not me.

I am just on here to oppose your obvious lies and fear grenades.

Oh yeah, don't forget to add 4 more names to your scab-like list as of today. A really large class starts in December so please leave more slots open.

BTW, the first 4 guys think it is hilarious that you call them scabs. They have started calling themselves scab 1,2,3,4, knowing how rediculous it is.