FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[Club ORD FO]

Is it true that there are a bunch of pilots at Options who are not in "good standing" with the union?? What would be the reason for that, not paying dues? What would be the issue that group of pilots have?

 

[BE40Driver]

There is maybe 20 something that are not MIGS, but ALL are paying dues!

 

[dime line]

Is it true that there are a bunch of pilots at Options who are not in "good standing" with the union?? What would be the reason for that, not paying dues? What would be the issue that group of pilots have?

excuses

 

[slowtation capt]

Is it true that there are a bunch of pilots at Options who are not in "good standing" with the union?? What would be the reason for that, not paying dues? What would be the issue that group of pilots have?

Because no matter what, there are allways people that are against unions, and will refuse to be a member in good standing
One even said for months before the union was voted in that he would never work for a union shop, he would leave this place and find another job.
Well he is still here, he is not a member in good standing.
Those not in good standing still have to pay dues everymonth, some choose to have their's contributed to a charity.

Make no mistake about it though, member in good standing or not, our union has defended both fully when they have needed it.
Never once has the union said sorry, you are not in good standing we will not support you.

 

[Club ORD FO]

I guess I'm curious about what would put somebody on the not in good standing list. If they are still paying dues, then what is it? Also, I've been told that you have to pay dues even when you are on furlough. Any truth to that?

 

[slowtation capt]

I guess I'm curious about what would put somebody on the not in good standing list. If they are still paying dues, then what is it? Also, I've been told that you have to pay dues even when you are on furlough. Any truth to that?

When we voted in the Union, a proposed Bylaws change was presented.
This bylaw change proposed was to start the collection of dues at that time.
Initially the union stated that no dues would be required until we got a CBA.
I personally voted yes for the proposed change in bylaws, as I felt it was only right for us to pay our way and not have NetJets supporting our efforts to gain our first CBA.
Ours did not pay attention to this, and say that they were lied too, etc......
These people decided not to pay dues at that time.
If they did not pay those dues = not in good standing.
If you paid dues from time of bylaw change = good standing
CBA inception = Everyone has to pay dues or fee
Union even gave a chance to everyone not in good standing.
Sign up for a back payment plan of $X amount every month until fully paid, and we will make you a member in good standing today.

Not sure about furlough's, but my guess is no.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

I guess I'm curious about what would put somebody on the not in good standing list. If they are still paying dues, then what is it? Also, I've been told that you have to pay dues even when you are on furlough. Any truth to that?

Since dues are usually a percent of your salary and furloughed pilots are nit collecting a salary from FO, then no.

 

[dime line]

I guess I'm curious about what would put somebody on the not in good standing list. If they are still paying dues, then what is it? Also, I've been told that you have to pay dues even when you are on furlough. Any truth to that?

You do NOT pay dues while on furlough

 

[dime line]

Since dues are usually a percent of your salary and furloughed pilots are nit collecting a salary from FO, then no.

I think dues are 1.56%

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

vulnerable

El raton - Do you really believe KR is stupid enough it treat his non-union side as badly as you suggest he will? Really? Especially since he want the union gone. If anything it's more likely the flex side will be treated well in an effort to influence the fo side when we finally do vote.

We will say goodbye to the IBT together...

V1 Rotate - Is it because I'm part of some of the highest paid Lear pilots on Earth?

You've been so busy fighting the dragon, have you every considered what your world would be like without it? What are your plans if the IBT is voted out? Sure, right now you're needed. You're the luxury label, the belle of the ball. But consider this OneSky scenario: Uncle has won - with your assistance - and the dragon has been slain. The fence agreements vanish. The CBA & LOA's are shredded. The union is dissolved. FlexJet pilots have their work agreement, maybe FO pilots are presented with one, their seniority numbers held as ransom in order to gain a signature. (Management by trust, huh?) Two groups of pilots, remaining or returning to "at will" status.

Uncle is not stupid. He has been a shrewd businessman and now basks in the glory of achieving a goal few execs are able to accomplish: He's beaten the union - kicked them out. Now it's time for you to get back to work, right? Except what's Uncle's motivation to keep your current pay scale or to even keep you working? Sure, seniority integration will occur, but who's gonna enforce it?

At this exact moment, your value & your importance plummets. In fact, not only are you no longer "the favored son", you're a liability. Every day that passes, every flight you make, you're costing Uncle more - more in pay & more in 401(k). See, he's got this group of pilots already flying some of Flex's types, working for 20 to 30% less. You're obsolete. You're too expensive. That feeling of vulnerability and uncertainty you have now? It ain't nothin' compared to what it will be.

Again: Uncle is not stupid. He's been a shrewd businessman, purchasing 49% of Flex, growing DAC, and getting rid of the union - all at the same time. This is a long term project, looking years in advance, taking hundreds of man-hours to execute.

With no Union to argue Scope and Pay, what incentive does Uncle have to keep one group's pay higher than the other? Would his labor cost decrease if those value pilots at Options were flying those luxury Challengers - both new & previously enjoyed? Are you kidding? Without a union, he can save 20 to 30% in labor costs alone! Are any other CEO's whipsawing employee groups for lower labor costs? Gee!

I hate to break it to you, but your only hope of remaining the "highest paid Lear pilots on Earth?" is with the Union.

I'll pass on the silly answers here, like, "Well, we'll just handle that when the time comes" or "We'll strike!" No. No stupid answers or illegal job actions - and it would be an illegal job action, cuz remember, there ain't no union!

And you can forget DW riding in on a white steed like Joan of Arc to save you. It's Uncle's plan and it's Uncle's name at the top of DAC's letterhead. I mean, c'mon, every manager and VP is maneuvering and positioning themselves for the new OneSky op - all perfectly ordinary whenever a new boss steps in.

With Bombardier, you kept your head down, kept your mouth shut and things worked out, right? Well, you ain't with Bombardier any more - that ship has sailed. "Wakeup to the new OneSky" - Hah! Isn't that what TWA said? I wanna know - what are your plans?

 

[slowtation capt]

Those 300s operated in the FO storefront will be flown by FJ pilots.

On your website is says those flights wil be operated by JSLLC. Last time I checked none of your pilots have gone through training to fly 300s on that certificate.

The Jet Solutions certificate was purchased by One Sky.
You guys will transition to the new certificate and that solves this problem.

When we transition to the new certificate, that would require training, correct?
Then we will all be trained under "One Sky" certificate
Then we can all fly whatever airplane is under the "one sky"

Apparently you solved the problem for everyone.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

I guess the cat is out of the bag now. How many other FJ trips are being flown by FO pilots? I've done at least 2 already that I know of.

 

[jetwash]

With no Union to argue Scope and Pay, what incentive does Uncle have to keep one group's pay higher than the other? Would his labor cost decrease if those value pilots at Options were flying those luxury Challengers - both new & previously enjoyed? Are you kidding? Without a union, he can save 20 to 30% in labor costs alone! Are any other CEO's whipsawing employee groups for lower labor costs? Gee!

I hate to break it to you, but your only hope of remaining the "highest paid Lear pilots on Earth?" is with the Union.

Exactly,

Do the Flex pilots really believe that the day the union is voted out and the lists are merged that Kenn will give the FO pilots a 30% raise?

Maybe we will all be bidding for the CL350 like at an auction.

I will fly it for 150K.... I will fly it for 140K... I will fly it for 130K.... I will fly it for 120K... I will fly it for 110K... I will fly it for 100K............ going once... going twice .... going three times..... the Flight Options pilot will get to fly it for his current pay rate....Next up is the CL300....

Once we are all on one list with no union or fences that's when he will start driving down the wages for ALL OF US. Lets hope it does not get to that point.

 

[ThePilotsFriend]

To all that are concerned,

Let me just start by saying that I have known Ken Ricci personally for 18 years. I know him not only thru business but also friendship. I recently had a flight with him and a lengthy conversation about the situation at hand. I expressed to him my feelings about how the Flight Options pilots not being treated fairly in all that is going on. Without saying to much, let me say this. If your a flight options pilot just set back and be patient because this is going to be a good thing for you when it's all finished. Ken has a proven strategy that will secure the end of the union. This is going to take time, it's not going to happen overnight. It's important to know that the time it will take is necessary for the plan to work. Once the union is successfully voted out the flex jet contracts and flying will be shifted over to you the Flight Options pilots. Once 60% of the Flex clients have been shifted over to Flight Options Ken will start the recall process of the furloughed pilots, once again building the pilot force. The business strategy behind this is the lower cost of labor on the Flight Options side. I also talked to him about the low pay at Options and he assured me that he is going to give a fair pay increase that both improves the lifestyle of the Flight Options pilot and makes for a sustainable business model. Ken expressed that the current pay at Flexjet is not sustainable and was one of the main reasons he was able to acquire the company. Ken believes that once 60% of the Flex flying is being conducted on the Flight Options side, the Flexjet crews can be reduced, he did not explain how this would be carried out. Ken seemed to think that this would be a three year business model but at the end of that time 93% of all the flying would be accomplished with Flight Options pilots. I think it's fair to get a pay raise that will support healthy business survivability at the same time bringing new aircraft to the Flight Options pilots. Ken seems to think that the new business model can be sustained with about 675 total pilots. If you take all of the current Options pilots and bring back all the ones on furlough you will still have room to keep 150 or so Flex pilots which is good news.

 

[Club ORD FO]

You call keeping 150 of the 350 flex pilots "good news"?