FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[t-bone]

That ISL language seems to hinge on who acquired who. Am I correct that Flex was acquired by DAC while Flight Options watched from the sidelines? If that's the case, which company remains after the operations are merged?

 

[slowtation capt]

TWA 2 ASA FO are you Flex's Do*cheBag DO who's been assigned the task of getting on the message boards and figuring out who is who by putting together what they say, where they heard, and then looking up trips to connect the dots and then making a list of the people from that are pro-union or talking bad about the company, or etc......

What exactly are you going to be doing with that list?

 

[Club ORD FO]

Flight Options Pilots Agreement

"[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]If Pilots of the acquired carrier are hired by the Company, the seniority lists of the respective Pilot groups shall be integrated pursuant to Teamsters Merger Policy if both groups are represented by the IBT, or if the Pilots of the acquired airline are not represented by the IBT, then pursuant to Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions.[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Where is the language preventing this, or any other aspects of agreed integration of operations, prior to a single carrier determination?
[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE]

I have not had a chance to read the whole options contract, but that first sentence is worded odd. "If pilots of the acquired carrier are hired by the company?" Technically we (flexjet) pilots were not hired by DAC, we work for Flexjet LLC. Don't know if that means much.

What a mess though. Personally I'd rather stay separate but I think a full merger in inevitable. The major question is will the combined group be union or non union. going to be a messy couple of years I think.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Can you please just go away. My hatred stems from the continuous exploitation of our professional services. I can assure you my preflights are the same irregardless of what stage of negotiations we are in. You want cooperation with carrying a little write up here or there to keep your operations flowing seamlessly. In the meantime you stuff your pockets full of cash made off the backs of us hard working pilots. Ricci is building an impressive machine to tear down netjets salaries with an unfair labor advantage. Do I want to strike, hell yes I want to strike. Its idiots like you in the ivory management towers that can prevent that. Get off your ass and send us a proposal with fair wages and a retirement package and you will hear no more from me. And no not disgruntled about not making it to the airlines. It's a bit difficult to run a business, commute, and work four on three off. Ricci will delay, tensions will build, and maybe just maybe their will be enough liquid magma coursing through all flight options pilots to send the message we have had enough. CYA

I am actually not a management pilot. I work VERY hard on the line making FJ a profitable company.

You need to be careful about your anger. You are going to go off on a FJ pilot at an FBO and end up losing your job.

KR has no need to rush through contract negotiations. The IBT sold you thus crappy contract. Why would he be in a hurry to bring you up to our wages while you still have the IBT thorn in his side.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

TWA 2 ASA FO are you Flex's Do*cheBag DO who's been assigned the task of getting on the message boards and figuring out who is who by putting together what they say, where they heard, and then looking up trips to connect the dots and then making a list of the people from that are pro-union or talking bad about the company, or etc......

What exactly are you going to be doing with that list?

I don't have the time to try to figure out who you are. I am not the DO. I am sure he has much more important things to worry about that an angry FO pilot.

I actually just am really enjoying watching you guys get spun up over something you have ZERO control over.

 

[Club ORD FO]

Has KR ever said he wold bring the options wages up to flex levels if the IBT went away? I've seen a few people say that, wondering where that assumption is coming from.

 

[slowtation capt]

Has KR ever said he wold bring the options wages up to flex levels if the IBT went away? I've seen a few people say that, wondering where that assumption is coming from.

No, all the in-house union people are saying that, trying their hardest to get votes that they don't have.

 

[The Architect]

Holdings Structures

That ISL language seems to hinge on who acquired who. Am I correct that Flex was acquired by DAC while Flight Options watched from the sidelines? If that's the case, which company remains after the operations are merged?

DAC holds Epic Aero Holdings.
Epic Aero Holdings holds OneSky Group.
One Sky Group holds Flight Options and Flexjet.

It appears One Sky survives after the integration regardless if a union does.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Has KR ever said he wold bring the options wages up to flex levels if the IBT went away? I've seen a few people say that, wondering where that assumption is coming from.

He can't. It's called union busting.

The IBT would cry foul. They want the FO pilots that they are the only avenue to achieve better pay and work rules.

The union won't even allow the FO pilots on the One Sky social media. I think it would be great to have messages like thus with names so you can't hide behind a screen name and spew untruths.

BTW, you VP of the union (not sure he correct title) just accosted one if our 300 FOs. Told him the list was done and it is DOH. All the junior FJ folks are getting furloughed so the FO pilots can take their jobs.

You wonder why the IBT isn't getting a warm reception from FJ. I think he should get his name and send it to HR. Like you said, if we will eventually be flying together, what kind of crew is he going to promote.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

No, all the in-house union people are saying that, trying their hardest to get votes that they don't have.

Sounds exactly like what you are doing for the IBT.

 

[The Architect]

Flexjet pilots not Hired?

I have not had a chance to read the whole options contract, but that first sentence is worded odd. "If pilots of the acquired carrier are hired by the company?" Technically we (flexjet) pilots were not hired by DAC, we work for Flexjet LLC. Don't know if that means much.

What a mess though. Personally I'd rather stay separate but I think a full merger in inevitable. The major question is will the combined group be union or non union. going to be a messy couple of years I think.

Perhaps a good point. Flexjet pilots may be employed by Flexjet LLC at this time. However, Flexjet LLC may be considered "the acquired carrier" for the provision referenced.

Of course, if this applies, perhaps you need not be hired. Flight Options has plenty of furloughed pilots protected by an agreement that can fill the shoes of Flexjet pilots. It seems that was the avenue explored by the "holdings companies" when attempting to acquire Citation Air.

Remember...

Umbrella...Holdings...Acquired Carrier...

 

[shanes123]

Wow crazy!!!!!

 

[gret]

Today's AIN Alerts

Flight Options, Flexjet Owner Aims for Single Operation
After filing a grievance, Flight Options pilot union leaders met late last week with representatives of the fractional providers? parent company, Directional Aviation Capital (DAC), and Flexjet, which DAC purchased late last year. DAC plans eventually to consolidate Flight Options and Flexjet into a single Part 91K fractional and Part 135 charter operation, according to DAC principal Kenn Ricci. However, Flight Options? pilots, who are represented by IBT Local 1108, would have to ask the National Mediation Board for one-system declaration. Doing so would also trigger a vote for the union to cover all of the combined companies? pilots, a thorny issue since the Flexjet pilots are non-union and earn between 16 and 24 percent more than their Flight Options peers. Therefore, Ricci doesn?t think the union will ask the NMB for one-system declaration until it believes it has enough votes between the two groups to retain the union. ?Pilots are key to our success,? Ricci told AIN. ?We?re not asking for pay cuts, and we?ve tried to preserve salaries. Normally, we?d try to delay a single operating system, but we want [it], the sooner the better. But it could be bad for the union, since they might not have enough votes.?

 

[FR8DOG777]

I am actually not a management pilot. I work VERY hard on the line making FJ a profitable company.

You need to be careful about your anger. You are going to go off on a FJ pilot at an FBO and end up losing your job.

KR has no need to rush through contract negotiations. The IBT sold you thus crappy contract. Why would he be in a hurry to bring you up to our wages while you still have the IBT thorn in his side.

Gawd, if only you would have told me that b4 I got into a fist fight at the fbo with that flex pilot maybe I would still have my job. Your a clueless idiot asa. My battle is against management not the other pilot group. Get that through your thick skull!

 

[doh]

I have to call you out. That is an absolutely stupid statement. Mr Ricci has said he wants and intends to combine the pilot groups. The lists will be merged. To state otherwise is stupid.

I understand what KR has said. Until single carrier status is determined by the NMB the list cannot be merged. Based on 1108s stance on that, I don't see that happening for a long time.

When or if the list is merged there will be new fences that will protect each pilot group through McKaskill-Bond. I am sure we will protect the rights of our first officers to upgrade to Captain before any FO pilots are allowed to bid to the FJ side.

It truly saddens me that the junior pilot at FO has 13+ years seniority! but we are not going to allow that fact to hurt our pilots career expectations. And yes, that is part of McKaskill-Bond.

You say that I should want a union if I am a management pilot. I can see how it makes their job easier in some ways. But the last thing I ever want for us at FJ us a union, especially the IBT. They seem to have done so many great things for you.

I did not put any words in your mouth. I said Mr Ricci wants the lists merged. Therefore your comment about applying for a job is stupid. And I'm a Flexjet FO who would love to see us stay separate, but I'm not holding my breath. Mr Ricci will get one list if he really wants one.