Delta acquisition of NWA almost finalized!

[NuGuy]

I like numbers, where did you get yours?

I'm guessing you must be young to be projecting 30 years out.

The average Delta hire in 2007 was 37 (almost 38), so I know that they are not looking 30 years ahead.

If you have some sort of program you and paste the list into, I can PM you the seniority list to check the accuracy of your number generator.

Heyas Fins,

He got his data from an EXCELLENT website that is run by one of our pilots. This information is auto-generated by using the most recent, date equivalent seniority lists. His data has been verified to be accurate.

My personal numbers, show a similar trend. Even with a DOH merger, I get a SLIGHT kicker the first year, but then I lose ground every year after that, peaking around 15 years out when I'm 22 percent down from my "expectation".

His assumptions, for the purposes of calculation, are that everyone goes to 65, with no early outs or medical retirements. The actual trends at NWA are significantly different, with at least %50 of those eligible choosing to retire, but in most months, it is considerably higher, on the order of %65-70.

The real issue is the "bubble" that pops days before DCC. The post DCC NWA list is going to be considerably different.

Nu

 

[FDJ2]

..... NI !

CE

Brave Sir Robin ran away.
Bravely ran away, away!
When danger reared its ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.
Bravely taking to his feet
He beat a very brave retreat,
Bravest of the brave, Sir Robin!

He is packing it in and packing it up
And sneaking away and buggering up
And chickening out and pissing off home,
Yes, bravely he is throwing in the sponge... ​

:beer:​

 

[NuGuy]

America West was thought to have the better contract pre-merger and that would benefit the US Air guys. The US Air pilots had better retirement succession due to their age. These factors appear to have been balanced and cancelled (as I expect they will be with the DAL/NWA SLI).

Heyas Fins,

That's assuming that you are only looking at W-2. Taken as a whole, with the QoL, protections and other factors, the two PWAs are/were roughly comparable.

I don't think that will be as much of a kicker as you expect.

Nu

 

[~~~^~~~]

I was just paraphrasing from Nicoleau, his opinion, not mine.

Got a link to the website?

 

[jetjockey#1]

Jetjockey,
How many years will it be before you see 600 retirements from the original DAL list? It will be a long time! At NWA, we'll lose well over 2000 before you see 600.

So far in 14 months, my number has decreased about 200 numbers. I am not sure if retirements, or else. Quick question for you.

Can you guarantee that your senior guys will retire at 60? No you can not, because the fact of the matter is; why would you want to retire with an equity payout hanging over your head, $28,000-$50,000 depending on the price of the stock, a 30% hourly pay raise over 4 years, much better work rules, and your pension is secured, I am sorry what am I missing?

As far as the SLI, I am a junior line holder in a widebody. I should be senior to any F/O at NWA who can not hold a line on a widebody, period. That is the only way we will not be affected. You should be able to hold the same equipment, and schedule the day after the list integration just like you did the day before the integration. I know that sucks for all those F/Os from the 90s that never had a chance to fly, not S/O, but to actually fly a widebody all over the world. But, the day after the integration, they should not be able to bid ahead of any widebody lineholder at DAL regardless of our DOH.

Just be thankful, we are not raising holly hell requesting pay parity as far as a pension is concerned. I know, I know, you gave up the money and work rules to keep your pension, and we did the opposite. But now, you get our money and keep your pension, and still you guys sound like you are being raped. I guess the 82% pass rate on the contract speaks for itself.

Just accept the fact that NWA is getting a much much better deal than DAL pilots so far.......... Maybe that will change in about a month.

 

[Noserider76]

As far as the SLI, I am a junior line holder in a widebody. I should be senior to any F/O at NWA who can not hold a line on a widebody, period. That is the only way we will not be affected. You should be able to hold the same equipment, and schedule the day after the list integration just like you did the day before the integration. I know that sucks for all those F/Os from the 90s that never had a chance to fly, not S/O, but to actually fly a widebody all over the world. But, the day after the integration, they should not be able to bid ahead of any widebody lineholder at DAL regardless of our DOH.

Your SLI version would first have to put everyone in both companies in the highest paying equipment their seniority can hold, assuming everyone above them is holding the best they can. No offense, but at 14 months I'd say you'd still be an -88 FO.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Heyas Fins,

I don't think that will be as much of a kicker as you expect.

Nu

I wrote that it would be balanced and the effect canceled out. You read that as a "kicker?" I think the arbitrators will jump on the excuse balance and cancel these factors to simplify the result. JMHO

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Quite true. with 700 or so new hires the last two years, maybe just maybe the first few classes would be in a right seat of a 73N with a bid most senior position stance.
Fin you have time, run the numbers of 88 FO's system wide. It has to be less than 630 or so.

 

[NuGuy]

Your SLI version would first have to put everyone in both companies in the highest paying equipment their seniority can hold, assuming everyone above them is holding the best they can. No offense, but at 14 months I'd say you'd still be an -88 FO.

Heyas Nose,

I don't agree with you much, but this is on the mark.

In this particular case, the whole list would be re-figured to what you COULD hold, versus what you are holding, irrespective on how "crappy" or "good" the position is, which leads to the artificially junior positions (we have them too...DC-9 Captain reserve).

No bump no flush would let you keep your position, but there'd be a steady stream of people coming in on top.

Nu

 

[NuGuy]

I wrote that it would be balanced and the effect canceled out. You read that as a "kicker?" I think the arbitrators will jump on the excuse balance and cancel these factors to simplify the result. JMHO

Fins,

The two PWAs were essentially equal. Your's had W2 and ours had QoL and protections. There's nothing to balance.

Nu