Delta acquisition of NWA almost finalized!

[General Lee]

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but just want to point out that I believe that the SLI agreement process does not allow pa

And I am not trying to fight with you. I am saying something has to be looked at because that problem with the fences and non displacements will fall on the rest of us. Suddenly there will be a large push towards upward movement on widebodies you guys never had, and the rest of us will only see movement to smaller planes for a long time. We know that the 742s may be going away, and we don't know when those 787s will ever get here. The only new planes coming that we know about are 777s and some 737s, and that is it. But, I have heard some new things about the MD90s. Supposedly we are still looking at them, and they would be based in MSP, because they would be able to hit both coasts from there, whereas the current ones based in SLC can only hit PIT and YYZ at most. So, they would move some MD90s to MSP, and move some A320s or A319s to SLC for more East Coast destinations. There you have it, some possible plans for us.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[123]

And I am not trying to fight with you.

I didn't know that we were fighting, I thought we were just having a discussion.

The only new planes coming that we know about are 777s and some 737s, and that is it.

I guess that I missed the announcement which cancelled the 787 orders.

 

[727RedTails]

General Lee,

All the DC9 Captains can hold the 330 fo and most the 744. They choose the DC9 for the same reason the MD80 fo's choose that over the 763.

 

[NuGuy]

General Lee,

All the DC9 Captains can hold the 330 fo and most the 744. They choose the DC9 for the same reason the MD80 fo's choose that over the 763.

Heyas 727,

Don't forget the reserve/block bidding skews the data even more.

Lot's of people won't bid a R position, even if they can hold it. There is an absolute mountain of people who can hold WB positions, but don't because they don't want to sit reserve.

Heck, I can hold a 330 spot if I want reserve.

When someone at DAL says they can hold a particular position, they lump both categories together.

Nu

 

[FDJ2]

Lot's of people won't bid a R position, even if they can hold it. There is an absolute mountain of people who can hold WB positions, but don't because they don't want to sit reserve.

The same can be said at most airlines with wide bodied fleets. Ultimately, what matters is how many jobs are brought to the merger and what the value of those jobs are.

 

[licorice]

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but just want to point out that I believe that the SLI agreement process does not allow pay rates to be used in comparing anything.

That's true, but it is only payrates from the new JPWA that can't be used. The pre-merger payrates are fair game to be used by negotiators to compare what "equities" each party brings to the table.

 

[123]

The pre-merger payrates are fair game to be used by negotiators to compare what "equities" each party brings to the table.

Where do you get this idea? I think you need to re-read the SLI no prejudice agreement.

 

[PuffDriver]

Where do you get this idea? I think you need to re-read the SLI no prejudice agreement.

I think you need to reread it, or ask Occam, Nu, DTW--they don't seem to know anything either.

 

[~~~^~~~]

What I've learned from this thread:
(1) DC9's last forever, never go away, and regardless of the price of fuel are a strategic advantage against airlines that chose to replace these airplanes decades ago. The cost of operation means nothing and they will replace RJ's, MD88's and 757's on most routes.
(2) No one at NWA has to bid the DC9. Flying this airplane out of the frozen north for 5 legs a day is something pilots aspire to fly just for the quality of life.
(3) Half of NWA's seniority list will retire next month and the other half is going out by Christmas. Only those who post on Flight Info are staying and none of them would be more than 20 numbers from the top if it wasn't for Delta.
(4) NWA is bailing Delta out
(5) Delta is growing purely by spending NWA's money
(6) Despite 47 airplanes are getting parked while 72 large RJ's show up to replace them, Delta has weak scope.
(7) Despite any and all evidence to the contrary, NWA pilots' contract paid the same as Delta's.
(8) Delta's uniforms are bad
(9) Delta's hats are worse
(10) We will witness a US Air type disaster
(11) The Delta MEC is responsible for everything
(12) Logic means nothing
(13) Precedent means nothing
(14) Status Quo is some silly talk that also, means nothing
(15) All Delta seats are belong to us
(16) Delta pilots are afraid of DC9's and can't fly them

What did I forget?

 

[Fly4hire]

Ultimately, what matters is how many jobs are brought to the merger and what the value of those jobs are.

Ultimately the ONLY thing that matters is how the arbitrators rule, and it's not based necessarily on what the SME's at either MEC think.

I think we (as in both sides) are very ill advised to be talking with such finality about this precedent or that and setting expectations based on previous cases. There has never been a merger of this size where the 2 parties are so similar.

I do feel confident that with a panel of 3 arbitrators a fair and equitable decision can be reached - this was one of the better things the 2 MEC's came up with.

We are still free to negotiate the SLI on our own if neither side don't like the results and both still want to sit down at the table.

(Looking foward to reading the arbitration hearing transcripts)

 

[~~~^~~~]

We are still free to negotiate the SLI on our own if neither side don't like the results and both still want to sit down at the table.

Oprah will have my baby, Obama will endorse McCain and the Wall Street derivatives brokers will start a self funded pool to pay back the taxpayers before that happens.

 

[NuGuy]

What I've learned from this thread:
(1) DC9's last forever, never go away, and regardless of the price of fuel are a strategic advantage against airlines that chose to replace these airplanes decades ago. The cost of operation means nothing and they will replace RJ's, MD88's and 757's on most routes.
(2) No one at NWA has to bid the DC9. Flying this airplane out of the frozen north for 5 legs a day is something pilots aspire to fly just for the quality of life.
(3) Half of NWA's seniority list will retire next month and the other half is going out by Christmas. Only those who post on Flight Info are staying and none of them would be more than 20 numbers from the top if it wasn't for Delta.
(4) NWA is bailing Delta out
(5) Delta is growing purely by spending NWA's money
(6) Despite 47 airplanes are getting parked while 72 large RJ's show up to replace them, Delta has weak scope.
(7) Despite any and all evidence to the contrary, NWA pilots' contract paid the same as Delta's.
(8) Delta's uniforms are bad
(9) Delta's hats are worse
(10) We will witness a US Air type disaster
(11) The Delta MEC is responsible for everything
(12) Logic means nothing
(13) Precedent means nothing
(14) Status Quo is some silly talk that also, means nothing
(15) All Delta seats are belong to us
(16) Delta pilots are afraid of DC9's and can't fly them

What did I forget?

Nope, I think you pretty much got it all.

I'm glad you made your peace with it. Takes a big man to admit it. Kudos...recognition: it is the first step to admitting you have a problem.

Nu

 

[~~~^~~~]

Cheers... I can be trained ... I think I'm figuring out how to pass my DC9 checkride... and I'd better add Superpilot's :beer: to the post. Now if I can figure out how to perform a walk around in the ice and avoid falling on my butt on the frozen lav juice.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Oprah will have my baby....

AHHHH SKEET SKEET SKEET YEEEAAAH I'M RICH!!!

 

[DTW320]

I think you need to reread it, or ask Occam, Nu, DTW--they don't seem to know anything either.

You mean THIS no prejudice SLI agreement?:

23 June 2008

This will confirm our agreement regarding the use of certain discussions, proposals and/or agreements occurring during negotiations for a joint collective bargaining agreement between Delta Air Lines and ALPA covering the combined Delta and Northwest pilot groups and preparation for such negotiations.
The Delta and Northwest MECs and their respective representatives agree that any discussions, written or oral proposals or agreements, or other communications of any kind (including any documents, exhibits and data) between or among Delta, ALPA, the Delta MEC and the NWA MEC and their representatives, employees or counsel regarding pay rates on any aircraft type shall not be used nor in any way referred to either directly or indirectly in any seniority list integration negotiation, mediation or arbitration proceeding between the pilot groups for the purpose of attempting to demonstrate that one or more aircraft type(s) should be considered or not considered the substantial equivalent of any other aircraft type(s).
Please indicate your concurrence by signing below.
Sincerely,
____________________ ___________________
Captain Donald L. Moak Captain Dave Stevens
Chairman, Delta MEC Chairman, Northwest MEC