Delta acquisition of NWA almost finalized!

[jetjockey#1]

Why don't you run that idea by all the DAL fo's that are senior to you on narrowbody equipment. Tell them that you fully expect that the new seniority list MUST have them junior to you, because you are a widebody pilot, who fly's internationally.

What? I never said that a narrow body pilot who can hold widebody and is senior to me, should be junior to me. What I said was a narrow body F/O at NWA or DAL who CAN NOT HOLD A WIDEBODY at NWA or DAL should be junior to any widebody pilot.

It may be hard for you to understand. Let me try it this way.
You should be able to hold the same equipment the day after the SLI just like you did the day before. Just because DAL has a lot more widebdoies does not mean that NWA pilots should enjoy bigger equipment on top of the much bigger raise you all got.

 

[jetjockey#1]

Your SLI version would first have to put everyone in both companies in the highest paying equipment their seniority can hold, assuming everyone above them is holding the best they can. No offense, but at 14 months I'd say you'd still be an -88 FO.

No offense taken, however, If "joe pilot" can hold a widebody at DAL, and at NWA a pilot can not hold a widebody, explain to me how you think it makes sense for this pilot who has no expectations to fly a widebody NOW, should be senior to a bunch of other pilots flying widebody, by default the NWA would get a windfall, if the day after the SLI he can hold widebody pay, and the day before he did not. If I am missing something, please let me know.

All I am advocating is the day after the SLI we all should be able to hold the same equipment and shedule just like we did the day before. Is that not fair?

And yes, I have contacted my union reps, and it makes perfect sense to them.

 

[NuGuy]

Too bad the the same arbitrators are not involved or I might by some of your logic. In fact one of the 3 involved ruled on the final arbitration of the NWA Red Book/Green book just recently, and the gist was that (framed in the context of the original Roberts award), that the pre-merger NWA group did not have a continuing right to meter awards based on equipment (Wide Body).

I find it fascinating that many here seem to put more weight on what equipment one is awarded while completely ignoring the demographics of a base/position that allows it to go so far out of normal seniority.

A better litmus test might be what seniority does it take to hold be a ATL 767 intl line holder?

I think it's great that a new hire a DAL can hold a 767 intl' out of JFK, but it's moot, and that somehow that should be protected regardless of the demographics of the pilot group and alignment of bases and aircraft (that is going to change), as if your seniority only matters if it allows for upward movement and not downward.

Thankfully there will be 3 very experienced arbitrators, and I'm confident we will get something much closer to a middle of the road solution than what was seen either at NWA with Roberts, or Nicilou(?).

I also heard that there is nothing to prevent a negotiated SLI to be agreed upon even after the ruling.

Heyas F4H,

Excellent post.

I might add that to those who hold up the Nic as some sort of goal, the two companies are in nowhere NEAR the same position that AAA/AWA were. Both airlines are viable and in the black operationally, with reasonably (for airlines) healthy balance sheets.

I could list the rather long list of items that the NWA guys gave up for the new PWA, basically in exchange for cash, but I would suspect that the arbitrators will see that the two PWAs were basically equivilent.

Nu

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

A better litmus test might be what seniority does it take to hold be a ATL 767 intl line holder?

June or so 07 newhires are intermitent lineholders on the ATL7ER. ATL767 (domestic) goes a tad senior to that... I'm a feb07 newhire and I'm almost always 5-10 away from junior lineholder (although I did hold a line in august).

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Agree. I will be a line holder after the AE. I was a line holder in March and am just a few numbers below him.

 

[Fly4hire]

Agree. I will be a line holder after the AE. I was a line holder in March and am just a few numbers below him.

Playing Devil's advocate - do you think you should have a higher seniority number than a a NWA pilot hired 7 yrs ahead of you because your seniority holds a WB and his does not? :bomb:

 

[recallsomeday]

No offense taken, however, If "joe pilot" can hold a widebody at DAL, and at NWA a pilot can not hold a widebody, explain to me how you think it makes sense for this pilot who has no expectations to fly a widebody NOW, should be senior to a bunch of other pilots flying widebody, by default the NWA would get a windfall, if the day after the SLI he can hold widebody pay, and the day before he did not. If I am missing something, please let me know.

All I am advocating is the day after the SLI we all should be able to hold the same equipment and shedule just like we did the day before. Is that not fair?

And yes, I have contacted my union reps, and it makes perfect sense to them.

I have no problem with the idea of holding the same equipment the day after SLI (No bump, no flush).

However, I find the bigger problem being who hits the street first when the s##t flows downhill.

Should a 14mo DAL widebody FO be senior to an 8 yr NWA narrowbody FO when it comes to backwards movment?

 

[FBN0223]

I have no problem with the idea of holding the same equipment the day after SLI (No bump, no flush).

However, I find the bigger problem being who hits the street first when the s##t flows downhill.

Should a 14mo DAL widebody FO be senior to an 8 yr NWA narrowbody FO when it comes to backwards movment?

No, a 7 year 11 month Delta FO should not be be senior to an 8 year NWA FO either.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

JPWA gives you longevity back for years on the street. We will see how this plays out.
I think that the boys at the bottom of DAL's list will get what they deserve, as will everyone else.
It will be fair to the unions or the arbitrators. What I think does not matter since it cannot change the outcome.
FWIW. I am a line holder after 18 months on at least one or two aircraft in ATL and NYC, and Lax. I have not looked at CVG and SLC.

What you are getting at is DOH and I will not go down that road. I firmly believe that what DALPA proposed is the most fair and equitable solution to this marriage.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

My BS flag rose up the pole when fins said there would be new-hires flying the 88 as Captain....wishful thinking, but it will go junior...but not to newbies....