Delta acquisition of NWA almost finalized!

[ACL65PILOT]

My understanding is that, that memo was for the JPWA and associated notes and discussions, not pre merger PWA's and pay rates.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Sigh, I thought you had wised up. Here is the language again, I will boldface the relevant part that you guys try and ignore:

23 June 2008

This will confirm our agreement regarding the use of certain discussions, proposals and/or agreements occurring during negotiations for a joint collective bargaining agreement between Delta Air Lines and ALPA covering the combined Delta and Northwest pilot groups and preparation for such negotiations.
The Delta and Northwest MECs and their respective representatives agree that any discussions, written or oral proposals or agreements, or other communications of any kind (including any documents, exhibits and data) between or among Delta, ALPA, the Delta MEC and the NWA MEC and their representatives, employees or counsel regarding pay rates on any aircraft type shall not be used nor in any way referred to either directly or indirectly in any seniority list integration negotiation, mediation or arbitration proceeding between the pilot groups for the purpose of attempting to demonstrate that one or more aircraft type(s) should be considered or not considered the substantial equivalent of any other aircraft type(s).
Please indicate your concurrence by signing below.
Sincerely,
____________________ ___________________
Captain Donald L. Moak Captain Dave Stevens
Chairman, Delta MEC Chairman, Northwest MEC


So you see, this protects the Delta pilots, who tried to find a far equitable solution to the list waaayyyy back when, from being harmed for starting with the middle position. Pay rates ARE fair game and WILL be used along with many other guns we have. I expect both sides to fight hard and dirty for their respective pilots. Hopefully we will then leave it all on the field.

In the meantime, don't be afraid to ask questions when some of the new language confuses you because you are so dense.

Short Attention Span: Yer doin' it right.

Today the proposals will be presented. They will most certainly reflect items or concepts developed during negotiations, but they won't include, as the agreement indicates, arguments that reference anything discussed previously.

I'm dying to hear your explanation of what the passage I've highlighted in blue means.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

What did I forget?

The part where you said you'd see us all again after the Thanksgiving holidays, apparently.

 

[Occam's Razor]

My understanding is that, that memo was for the JPWA and associated notes and discussions, not pre merger PWA's and pay rates.

Perfect! The pay rates are based on a formula (lift, speed, range). The formula in the "old Delta" PWA is good enough!

 

[PuffDriver]

Short Attention Span: Yer doin' it right.

Today the proposals will be presented. They will most certainly reflect items or concepts developed during negotiations, but they won't include, as the agreement indicates, arguments that reference anything discussed previously.

I'm dying to hear your explanation of what the passage I've highlighted in blue means.

Ok, ok, you're off the hook with apologies. DTW on the other hand.

(You threw me with the "new daddy" thing--I'm not up on my ghetto)

 

[FDJ2]

Hey Puff,

You need to keep reading the rest of the statement. I highlighted the important part for you.

Puff is correct.


"This will confirm our agreement regarding the use of certain discussions, proposals and/or agreements occurring during negotiations for a joint collective bargaining agreement between Delta Air Lines and ALPA covering the combined Delta and Northwest pilot groups and preparation for such negotiations."

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

With phat bases like ATL, JFK, and soon to be DTW you should have your ghetto down dawg

Ok, ok, you're off the hook with apologies. DTW on the other hand.

(You threw me with the "new daddy" thing--I'm not up on my ghetto)

 

[FDJ2]

I'm dying to hear your explanation of what the passage I've highlighted in blue means.

It refers to negotiations in which both DALPA and NALPA were engaged. Anything outside of the JCBA negotiations, can be admitted.

".....between or among Delta, ALPA, the Delta MEC and the NWA MEC......"


One simple question, what's being confirmed?

"This will confirm our agreement regarding the use of certain discussions, proposals and/or agreements occurring during negotiations for a joint collective bargaining agreement between Delta Air Lines and ALPA covering the combined Delta and Northwest pilot groups and preparation for such negotiations."

 

[Noserider76]

Good thread to vent for us line pogues but it's out of our hands. Question is, how are both sides going to handle it when it doesn't go the way you thought it should? Like adults or do we throw ourselves on the floor and have a tantrum?

Do we treat it like it's the most important thing in the world or just part of our jobs over which we have no control? I still remember flying with a Western Capt, who in the minds of most got a pretty sweet deal, tell me how the merger caused his divorce, ruined his relationship with his kids, and gave him VD, and completely ruined his life. His neck veins would pop out when it was brought up and I thought he was having a stroke. No matter how it turns out, I don't want to be that guy.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I
One simple question, what's being confirmed?

Certain items outside those JCBA and SLI negotiations that have already taken place. Their inclusion is covered under Paragraph 5 of the Process LOA, and will be mostly, "How we got here." data derived from the existing pre-merger contracts, and the evolution of our distinct demographics (eg: previous mergers, early retirements, etc)...and not proposals passed across the table from February 'til now.

Academic at this point. What is proposed by both sides will be analyzed by competent, experienced arbitrators.

They'll rule.

We'll live with it.

Less-likely, but preferable, would be a negotiated list. I'm not getting indications either side is entirely comfortable rolling the dice with the panel. I'm also sensing very few of the individuals involved want to put their signature on a deal that doesn't reflect "equal blood"*.

Tight spot.

One thing I know all of us can agree upon: Binding means binding.



* A subjective term!

 

[NuGuy]

One thing I know all of us can agree upon: Binding means binding.

I think I saw that once on an episode of "Cat House"

Nu

 

[FDJ2]

Academic at this point. What is proposed by both sides will be analyzed by competent, experienced arbitrators.

They'll rule.

We'll live with it.

Less-likely, but preferable, would be a negotiated list. I'm not getting indications either side is entirely comfortable rolling the dice with the panel. I'm also sensing very few of the individuals involved want to put their signature on a deal that doesn't reflect "equal blood"*.

Tight spot.

One thing I know all of us can agree upon: Binding means binding.

Academic at this point is right.

I also agree that a less likely but preferable outcome is a negotiated result. The fact that it is mutually agreed upon would suggest mutually palatable. I'm not sure if we'll get there, but it would be nice.

Absent that, three experienced arbitrators will listen to the arguments, look at the facts, render a decision and we'll move on.

They'll be some unhappy campers I'm sure, but we're all big boys and girls and we'll be playing in the same sand box from here on out. We can cling to our anger, or learn to play nice and make this a great place to be.

 

[licorice]

[ pay rates on any aircraft type shall not be used.... . ..for the purpose of attempting to demonstrate that one or more aircraft type(s) should be considered or not considered the substantial equivalent of any other aircraft type(s).
____________________ ___________________
Captain Donald L. Moak Captain Dave Stevens
Chairman, Delta MEC Chairman, Northwest MEC

..payrates will not be used to compare one aircraft to another (different) aircraft...but payrates in general can be used ie. nwa 757 pays $144/hr, dal 757 pays $160/hr nwa 330=$162/hr dal 76-400 pays $172/hr----NOT saying those two aircraft are substantially equivalent just stating their payrates.. these are pre-merger payrates..