Breaking Colgan Alpa News

[p3pilot71]

Hey 70SS, Just wait until these these nerds show up for there "dream job" interview and they ask why they voted down ALPA when they worked at Colgan... I'm sure a current ALPA carrier would really want someone onboard that votes against the union that they are represented by!!!!

Not everyone voted against the union. To say that every Colgan pilot's "dream job" interview is screwed because of this failed vote is a$inine.

 

[Captain X]

Farking apathetic bastards in this industry...

Well ya' see, my plan is that I'm gonna fly for a turboprop carrier for 6 months, maybe a year. Then I'll have enough time to get picked up by a carrier that has RJs, maybe even some of the shiny 70 and 90 seat ones. I'll probably have to be a first officer there for a year or two but then I should be plenty qualified to go on to a major airline like FedEx, United, or whoever I choose.

So since I won't be at this turboprop gig too long I really don't think it's my place to vote on this issue.

 

[70-SS]

Well ya' see, my plan is that I'm gonna fly for a turboprop carrier for 6 months, maybe a year. Then I'll have enough time to get picked up by a carrier that has RJs, maybe even some of the shiny 70 and 90 seat ones. I'll probably have to be a first officer there for a year or two but then I should be plenty qualified to go on to a major airline like FedEx, United, or whoever I choose.

So since I won't be at this turboprop gig too long I really don't think it's my place to vote on this issue.

Oh that sounds just like most of the colgan 155!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kaman]

We should all get stickers that have a BIG 155 and a red circle with a line through it made up...Great idea for Xmas! Still waiting for the other shoe to drop from the PCL MEC. But, whatever happens we lost our chance to even litigate their decision(s). Best of luck to the PCL guys getting what they deserve. A fair and just contract from the bottom dwelling PCL managment.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[Grey Ghost]

The point is that you would not only be helping yourself but future colgan pilots down the road! Have fun getting stapled to the bottom!!!!

 

[dingo222]

Oh that sounds just like most of the colgan 155!!!!!!!!!

instead of bashing the 155, maybe we should figure out why they didn't vote so that this doesn't happen next year. Read the NMB rules on an election. TO vote no, a person should not vote at all OR vote for no representation.

I think the apathetic people were the people who thought this would be a sure thing for alpa. THe others voted by not voting at all. It's time to find a way to change this by next year. THe OC gave it a great run and came really close. But, just like any election if you lose by a close margin you need to get out there and find out why and change those voters minds now. Scare tactics, stickers, and the like will likely harden the resolve of those against representation. Maybe pcl mgmt will give everyone a reason to vote by next year. Hopefully not, but by the resolve of the OC instead. MY .02

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

I didnt vote at all because I didn't like the chinese food at LGA. Anyway so long Colgan suckas I just got hired by Netjets.

 

[vectorvictor]

I didnt vote at all because I didn't like the chinese food at LGA. Anyway so long Colgan suckas I just got hired by Netjets.

I think I speak for us collectively when I say, "Don't let the air stair door hit you in the ***."

Just kidding. Congrats if you are serious for once. NJ is a good company.

 

[70-SS]

instead of bashing the 155, maybe we should figure out why they didn't vote so that this doesn't happen next year. Read the NMB rules on an election. TO vote no, a person should not vote at all OR vote for no representation.

I think the apathetic people were the people who thought this would be a sure thing for alpa. THe others voted by not voting at all. It's time to find a way to change this by next year. THe OC gave it a great run and came really close. But, just like any election if you lose by a close margin you need to get out there and find out why and change those voters minds now. Scare tactics, stickers, and the like will likely harden the resolve of those against representation. Maybe pcl mgmt will give everyone a reason to vote by next year. Hopefully not, but by the resolve of the OC instead. MY .02

look we all know the voting rules.


The people who decided not to vote knew what they were doing.

 

[70-SS]

I didnt vote at all because I didn't like the chinese food at LGA. Anyway so long Colgan suckas I just got hired by Netjets.

dude. If you did't vote because of the food. Sh!t you had two food options up there.

Well good. Go to a company that has work rules and a Union.

You must be too good for colgan.

 

[PCL_128]

Sh!t you had two food options up there.

Four options, actually. Yeah, I spent way too much time in that food court.

 

[Thurman Merman]

I'm not knocking the guys who gave their time answering questions in LGA, but you didn't have key people up there showing support. Key, meaning senoir Captains who have been here a while. The Captains that are respected at Colgan from top to bottom, the kind of guys people listen to when they talk. These guys are the ones respected inside the cockpit and out.

Now I know this is going to be taken the wrong way, but pilots have huge and ego's and it is hard to accept people junoir to them telling them what they need. Especially here at Colgan, where some Captain's are lifers, by choice. Believe it or not guys choose family over that big paycheck to work three days a week, weekends off, home every night, be able to coach little league, and show up to the school plays. Some of these guys are not hurting for money, which helps immensley.

My point is, these guys were not up there, not a lot of Captains in top 50 senoirity were there. That is the key demographic you needed. These are the guys that would have swung the FO vote. Some people are happy here, contrary to popular beleif they are treated well. The key is Colgan is now corporate. Those Captains who were happy but want protection from a change were not there, mostly it was guys who were not happy to begin with.

Also, the if your not voting for ALPA you're stupid campaign did not win a lot of votes. This was not a tactic in LGA, but on the internet it was very prevalent. Instead of alienating the pilot group who made a choice and sounding like sore losers, understand what happened and rework the problem. I am not talking about everybody but it seems like the same few people on here are not winning a lot of votes. You are dealing with grown @ss men(for the most part) and women, even on the internet, if you are trying to win votes show some class.

I know keeping people informed is key, but to lambast people with too much can be a negative. People did not enjoy getting mail everyday, or a phone call everyday(in some cases on cell phones). The problem being, if people feel like they are being told what to do they revert to there inner child and rebel. The fire hose worth of information had the opposite effect of keeping "you" informed.

Lastly, Anyone who has ever been on a debate team knows to understand the issue from both sides and be able to argue it equally(without bias) will allot you the victory. I got the feeling from some people that they could not understand why people would not want ALPA and it was the only way. You need to know your opposition, you need to understand his thought process, then you need to find a way to give him the satisfaction he arrived at a decision on his own accord.

All of this is a personal observation but food for thought in the next campaign. Now fire away with the angry responses...

 

[PCL_128]

I'm not knocking the guys who gave their time answering questions in LGA, but you didn't have key people up there showing support. Key, meaning senoir Captains who have been here a while.

Thurman, the problem with that is that most of the senior Captains that you refer to are in the company's good graces. They receive favors whenever they want them, and they never have to worry about anything. They know that their buddies in management will always take care of them. They don't care that the other 90% of the pilot group doesn't receive the same blessed status that they do. Dean from the Colgan Pilot Group is an excellent example of this. Here is a senior guy that was extremely well-respected by the pilot group before this campaign. Miraculously, after creating the CPG after the union drive started, he was recently promoted to a management position. He's one of the "good old boys." Trying to get guys like that to support the union cause is impossible. They're too far entrenched in the company machine. Believe me, I tried on many occasions to call him and talk with him when I was acting as the representative to Colgan from the PCL MEC. I left messages offering to buy him lunch and talk about ALPA and his CPG. He never returned a phone call.

Lastly, Anyone who has ever been on a debate team knows to understand the issue from both sides and be able to argue it equally(without bias) will allot you the victory. I got the feeling from some people that they could not understand why people would not want ALPA and it was the only way. You need to know your opposition, you need to understand his thought process, then you need to find a way to give him the satisfaction he arrived at a decision on his own accord.

I'll admit to you, I really don't understand why people would choose no protection and no representation. It's a foreign concept to me. That being said, I asked the few pilots that had the balls to admit being against the drive, and the only answers they could provide me about why they were opposed were the following:

1. "I'm not giving away 2% of my money to some union"

2. "Unions are communist. I'm a Republican."

3. "Duane made too much money."

4. "I just don't like union."

Are these well-thought out reasonings? Sorry, but you can't debate with someone or understand their position when they're just making statements like "unions are communist." In all the time I spent in working on the Colgan drive, I never once had a pilot approach me with a well-thought out reason why representation was a bad (or even questionable) idea. If the intelligent pilots with a different viewpoint were out there, then they too big of cowards to come up to the food court and talk face to face about it.

Personally, I disagree with your assessment of why the drive failed. The guys that are angry about mailing and phone calls would vote "no" anyway, simply because they have a predisposition to hating unions. In my opinion, this drive failed for two reasons: pilot apathy, and too many newhire pilots that don't understand (and didn't take the time to learn) what unions are and why they're important. Because of this, I'm not even sure that the drive next year will have any more luck. There will be even more newhire pilots and many of the OC members will have already moved on to major carriers. I still hold out hope, however, and I'm sure that ALPA will once again put everything they can into the next drive.

 

[JoeMerchant]

PCL 128,

The biggest problem we face at the regional level is the whipsaw between companies in this fee for departure competition. ALPA National and the mainline MECs have done nothing to stop this, and in fact have done things that make it worse. Many regional pilots have observed this and they are not impressed with ALPA.

If ALPA steps up to the plate and shows some leadership in this area, ALPA may start to win some of these votes. Until then expect more of the same.

 

[BoilerUP]

What would you suggest to combat that problem, Joe?

 

[PCL_128]

What would you suggest to combat that problem, Joe?

Boiler, Joe never offers any solutions. He just whines about ALPA and sends more money to his greedy RJDC attorney.

 

[70-SS]

Boiler, Joe never offers any solutions. He just whines about ALPA .

Guys. The colgan 155 didn't have solutions either.

 

[TNHillbilly]

I know that ALPA has more resources, but is it really the best option for a small regional carrier? quote]



What about that small canadian carrier. They have metro's and 99's. They are ALPA. Help me out with the name.

Bearcat. Bearclaw. Bearprint. Bear something.

 

[PCL_128]

Bearcat. Bearclaw. Bearprint. Bear something.

Bearskin

 

[TNHillbilly]

Yes...