avantair.......union? Is it time.....again?

[oneeye_169]

it is definitley time for a union. i have constantly been filling out forms in order to protect the company, signing policies that end saying, "all subject to change and employee can be dismissed without reason." i don't want a union for more money. i want a union for job protection. the disciplinary board isn't even set up fair. the decider vote is hr. they tend to protect the company at all cost. not to mention the pilots on the board don't seem to be on the pilot's side. we need the ability to be able to go to a neutral arbitrator. these guys should not lose their jobs. they shouldn't even have been disciplined within a two week period for that type of incident. if they said it was a normal landing, then there is no way to prove that it wasn't. i keep hearing people mention the cvr. that wouldn't do much. unless the pilots were heard saying that it was a hard landing or that they messed up. even then, they can't use the tape against them. i think p180puke, might be thinking of the FDR, which the plane doesn't have. they couldn't use that against them either. so hanging these guys out to dry is complet BS. i've also flown with a couple of FO's who say they are worried about speaking up to certain captainsin fear that it would affect their upgrade. meaning, managemnt would contact those captains for opinions on various FO's, and the captain would not give them a good recommendation. the FO's should be able to speak up in the cockpit without worry. we have alot of experienced FO's. they need to start using a true seniority list and stop hanging upgrades over FO's heads. it would make for a safer cockpit.

Also, i counted eight pilots who i have talked with the past two weeks who are having some form of trouble in dealing with Pservices. a union could help with this as well.

anyway, i'm really annoyed. i like this company, i like the people in the training dept, i yhink avantair has a good future. however, as we start to grow and get more pilots, the closeness of a small company is going to go away. With that, the pilots need protection. something real. not a board setup to appear to be legit. this is the wrong industry to be terminated from or even a forced resignation. i hope p180puke actually filled out the organizing form and didn't just post the link.

i am sure alot of people here will fill out those union interest cards. and i think this time the pilots won't be bought off temporarily by promise.

i also hope pilots at avantair will stop worrying about disciplinary action if they post on a blog site. if management's biggest worry is what pilots are posting, instead of running a successful business, then the company is doomed anyway.

+job protection
+better work rules

lets do it.

 

[mooney flier]

Can anyone actually verify that these pilots were terminated?

 

[angryoneincher]

i also hope pilots at avantair will stop worrying about disciplinary action if they post on a blog site. if management's biggest worry is what pilots are posting, instead of running a successful business, then the company is doomed anyway.

+job protection
+better work rules

lets do it.

I know for a fact that at one point Santos contacted whoever's charge of flightinfo.com and tried to bribe them into revealing identities. They told him to f off, and that unless law enforcement made them do that for criminal reasons of some sort, that if would never happen. LOL. What a weenie.

 

[CherryBomb]

I know for a fact that at one point Santos contacted whoever's charge of flightinfo.com and tried to bribe them into revealing identities. They told him to f off, and that unless law enforcement made them do that for criminal reasons of some sort, that if would never happen. LOL. What a weenie.

You have got to be kidding me?!?!?!?
Way to go FI guys!!

 

[NJAPLT]

I know for a fact that at one point Santos contacted whoever's charge of flightinfo.com and tried to bribe them into revealing identities. They told him to f off, and that unless law enforcement made them do that for criminal reasons of some sort, that if would never happen. LOL. What a weenie.

Yikes, goes to show you that the companies and their union busting laywers know about this site, and report everything they read. Be careful, sounds like they are trying to identify the employees with prounion thoughs to fire them.

Hopefully people haven already contacted an organization like the Teamsters 1108 on the process get unionized. I would think that they would have good advice how to avoid getting identified by the company while conducting the initial steps to organize (or at least guage the interest in organizing within the pilot group.)

Good luck.

 

[oneeye_169]

if FI gave up the names of the people on this sight, they would probably be subject to a bunch of legal problems from the identified. hence, the reason why you can't post names. and if they are pilots, why would they want to F*ck over other pilots in favor of mgmt.

 

[gunfyter]

The way the company can force FI to reveal the names is file a frivilous lawsuit.

The names must be revealed. Article in WIRED magazine explained the whole process years ago and this has been done. After the names revealed employees were fired and lawsuit dropped.

 

[oneeye_169]

you still have to have a reason for the frivilous lawsuit. i would like to read that article. Not to mention, if they are fired for union recruiting or organizing, then there are laws that protect from that as well. don't forget this is a publicly traded company now. its not as easy as it once was to hide shady business practices...if that is what people think is happening. i'm not aware of any. besides, if the company thinks they are doing a good job in managing the pilots then they have nothing to worry about.
like i said. growing company, with more pilots to come. job protection (which means long term financial stabilty for you and your family) should be priority. the union would help provide that, along with other benefits. right now there are no guarantees. its all at the companies discretion. the pilots should get a legitimate say. and i don't mean the worthless PA board.

 

[fs77]

New slogan for avantair: "IT'S TIME"

Well, I've been with a union with a prior employer. All I have to say is it was a very good thing to have. Like someone said, it's not about the money, ok, sometimes it is, but job security. These two guys got hosed big time. Unbiased system board? Yeah, ok, sure.
They were told resign or be fired "after all facts were considered"?? The NTSB report isn't out. So, it seems to me all the facts were NOT considered!

IT'S TIME! Vote YES!

 

[johnsonrod]

Either improve life by bringing on union representation (and not be subjected to arbitrary management whims) or vote with your feet - Netjets has a union and it is hiring... Choice is yours.

 

[hyper]

Actually, as quiet as that plane is; you'd hear something obvious on the CVR to indicate a landing hard enough to collapse the gear......

"I hear the train a comin´
it´s rolling round the bend....."

 

[gunfyter]

you still have to have a reason for the frivilous lawsuit. i would like to read that article. .

Knock yourself out:

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2000/05/36338

"A lot of companies are monitoring these message boards all the time. When they see something they don't like, they instantly file a lawsuit," said Rob Lytle, a trade-secret attorney for Howrey Simon Arnold & White in Houston.
"There are dozens and dozens of these cases," agreed Chris Hansen, an attorney with the ACLU.
Problem is, say critics, many of the cases are bogus -- the suing company is filing the case solely to unmask its online enemies.
To do that, it issues subpoenas to the online company that hosts the message board or chat room, asking for the identity of the alleged defamers. Many Net companies, including the biggest message board hosters like Yahoo, will ultimately hand over a user's name in response to subpoena. "Once the company knows who you are, they can fire you if you're an employee, or they can intimidate you with their big corporate lawyers," said Megan Gray, an attorney for Baker & Hostetler in Los Angeles.
​

 

[oneeye_169]

that article is seven years old.

 

[Noodles]

I think you'll find, like the last two times that a union drive was started, that there are too many people apathetic. Some have just had too much kool-aid, and will never be convinced otherwise.

Watch out, though. During the last union drive, two out of the three that were behind it got fired.

 

[oneeye_169]

www.eff.org/privacy/anonymity/blog-anonymously.php

look at blog without getting fired, number 2

people should be able to post on here without worry. noone is giving away vital company information. i don't want the company to go away, i want them to be successful. i just think the pilots need a way to protect themselves from mgmt or future mgmt that may make harsh decisions based off emotions or worried reactions. losing a job isn't easy, and it shouldn't be taken lightly. i feel horrible for those guys who had to go up for Disciplinary action. i hope no one else has to go down that road. i also think if the company tried to get user id's in order to fire people, it would probably end up hurting their cause.

For all curious pilots...avantair is not a bad place to work. i just think given some recent events and the fact that we will begin to have a larger group of pilots....a union could help in protecting our interests.