avantair.......union? Is it time.....again?

[P180puke]

So, the word is the crew that had the gear fail on them in FLL was asked to resign or be fired. Maybe their fault, maybe not. Maybe it's justified, maybe not. Given this a/c's history and the crew's insistence of a normal landing (backed by CVR?), I'd guess not. I understand pressure to "admit" error was applied as well, to no avail.

Yea, I know, I don't like unions either. But with proper representation, mngmt can't easily make you the scapegoat as they did in this case, it appears. The ink wasn't even dry before we started hearing all the silly rules, etc.

Firing the monkeys always looks better to the shareholders.

We boys and girls may need this: http://org.teamster.org/faqs.htm

 

[Seat 0A]

Yea, I know, I don't like unions either.

Ya know, I am always puzzled by this comment. Why EXACTLY do you not like unions? Have you had a bad union experience?

How many folks out there would enter into say, a $500,000 building project without a contract? I would say that person would be acting recklessly. The job that will feed your family and put a roof over your head should be no different. Sh*t happens, especially in this field, and the repercussions can often be far worse than someone working on an assembly line that puts a part in upside down.

I have over 20 years experience in union shops. A couple of those were in manufacturing. In that setting I will say that a union sometimes only protected those who did not want to work. The "slackers". In aviation that is not the case, we all work hard. For the most part in aviation the union representation actually provides for SAFER work rules than can be expected by the regs. It also provides some form of representation when an "oh sh*t" happens. It is so easy for an at-will employer to let a pilot take the rap for an incident and protect the company certificate. They also benefit when they lose a pilot making $150k/yr and replace him with one for $20K. Win-win for the company.

You "don't like" unions. Hopefully you like getting bent over and taking the management shaft. Even those who "think" they have the world by the balls at certain merit based companies will be the sacrificial lamb when the time comes. Ask the guys who have been passed over during a selective recall from furlough/layoff at a company without a CBA how they feel. Ask the ones who get to "bend" the prospective rest requirement (one call during rest is ok, etc). Total BS and no way out of it.

Now why would a person have to resign in the landing gear case? Would he not be worthy of retraining? Maybe a great pilot that had a bad day. Perhaps if he was an A-teamer but still a piss-poor pilot he would get a second chance. Ya see, there is no standard because there is no CONTRACT. NO STANDARDS for the employee and the company to be held to.

Most refuse to accept this until it affects THEM or someone close to them. That day is approaching at some unknown rate.

 

[NJA bound]

Yea, I know, I don't like unions either.

What the fk don't you like about union representation?

Do you like working for peanuts???? With no work rules??

Do you even understand what a labor union is?

It's workers uniting as ONE and standing up to management and fighting for what is right!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[P180puke]

Thanks guys. EXACTLY the response I was expecting to support the post.

Before you get your nuts too wadded up, realize I'm on your side.

I don't like insurance either, but I have it and need it.

 

[myrealnameis]

I had not heard the verdict related to the 2 crewmembers, this is shocking and disappointing to say the least. Now I am begining to see that we indeed are on our own. Sad.

 

[brewerdog]

gee, nja b , how do you really feel???

 

[fischman]

So, the word is the crew that had the gear fail on them in FLL was asked to resign or be fired. Maybe their fault, maybe not. Maybe it's justified, maybe not. Given this a/c's history and the crew's insistence of a normal landing (backed by CVR?), I'd guess not. I understand pressure to "admit" error was applied as well, to no avail.

Yea, I know, I don't like unions either. But with proper representation, mngmt can't easily make you the scapegoat as they did in this case, it appears. The ink wasn't even dry before we started hearing all the silly rules, etc.

Firing the monkeys always looks better to the shareholders.

We boys and girls may need this: http://org.teamster.org/faqs.htm

I am biased, but I think it is time P180puke. I was raised very anti-union, my parents and grandparents were all management. Having said that, I will NEVER work at a place that does not have a union.

 

[av8orboy]

You guys should worry about this first before you worry about a union.​

 

[gunfyter]

You guys should worry about this first before you worry about a union.​

Why worry about that? There are other people whose job it is to worry about that.

The best thing a pilot can do ... is do his own job as professionally as possible. Thats what managements hire us to do. Let the accountants and MBAs worry about business.

 

[av8orboy]

Why worry about that? There are other people whose job it is to worry about that.

The best thing a pilot can do ... is do his own job as professionally as possible. Thats what managements hire us to do. Let the accountants and MBAs worry about business.

It's hard to pay your pilots more money when your company took a 36% hit in 1Q. I think they should go with the union. That will guarantee that I will make some more money shorting AACQ.