avantair.......union? Is it time.....again?

[imacdog]

Got FUD?

 

[BSlapped]

From AINOnline

Preliminary Report: Tire suspect in Piaggio landing mishap


By Mary F. Silitch
May 01, 2007
Accidents



Piaggio Avanti, Fort Lauderdale, Fla., March 20, 2007–The Avanti, operated by fractional operator Avantair, was substantially damaged when landing at Hollywood International Airport, Fort Lauderdale, Fla. The ATP-rated first officer was flying the airplane, on approach to Runway 9R, at 120 knots.

On landing, the Avanti veered left and the first officer applied right rudder, then right brakes. The airplane veered right and the left main landing gear collapsed. The left main tire had separated, and fuel was leaking from the airplane. The tire had been deflated and there was a bald spot in the tread. The two occupants were not injured. The airplane, N128SL, is registered to Avantair of Bedford, Mass.






No mention of pilot error? Discuss....

 

[Bruno06]

Dr. Ian Malcolm (The Lost World: Jurassic Park): Oh, yeah. Oooh, ahhh, that's how it always starts. Then later there's running and screaming.

Typical management response. No valid argument, just a quote from a fantasy/fiction movie. Pitiful to make such a frivolous comment on a subject as important as this, dealing with pilot's careers and job security. Something that affects their families, their lives, their future.
You should be ashamed, sitting there behind your desk in your St Pete office. Every time you make a comment in this thread it reinforces the need for Avantair pilots to have a union. Keep it up...you're really pissing everyone off!!

 

[netjetwife]

My thanks to Fs77 for the compliment and to BSlapped for sharing news. It baffles me as to why a workforce would choose a knee-jerk reaction management style over negotiated rules both sides must follow.

Just look at B19... ...so full of FUD you want to say "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"...or post, as it is. He offers the pilots fiction and stretched to the max ridiculous suggestions. I think Avantair pilots would be far better served reading Confessions of a Union Buster by a real one who finally couldn't stomach what he was doing any longer. They would easily recognize tactics like those used by B19. Far too often the road to a written contract is littered with broken promises and injured careers.

Now some of you may think that I'm being a bit over-dramatic (B19 holds that top spot), but I suggest that there are two pilots (if not more) from Avantair that would say they feel as though they had been chewed up and spit out by management there. Actually, there are probably quite a few frac pilots that feel that way, unfortunately. It makes perfect sense that the pilotgroup would want to protect their careers; to state the obvious, aviators need the assurance of a written contract more than most workers. Without it the Avantair pilots are left to wonder who will be next. NJW

PS To Flts Ops pilots--this is the reason you banded together to stand up for your right to fair treatment. Good luck at the bargaining table.

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

lllll

Dr. Ian Malcolm (The Lost World: Jurassic Park): Oh, yeah. Oooh, ahhh, that's how it always starts. Then later there's running and screaming.

Guys, dont be fooled by this weird reference to a science fiction movie. It's a typical lawyer move- a redirect.

 

[netjetwife]

Exactly, Mr. P! After all it's hard to argue with reality...

 

[CherryBomb]

Correct me if I am wrong, but a lot of people were hired within the last year. It is my understanding that we have a one year training contract. How can so many people be quitting with this training contract in place???

 

[Noodles]

They have only held one person to that training contract. Ever. I don't know how enforceable it is, but if they come after you, offer to pay $1/month, forever. They'll be out of business long before you would have to pay it off.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Exactly, Mr. P! After all it's hard to argue with reality...

Art imitating life. I felt the quote was perfect. Dinosaurs once had a useful purpose on this earth, just like unions. THAT's reality.

 

[pilotpat]

I was going to let the Avantair guys continue their discussion on unions while just reading to be informed. Until now. It just got silly with the dino comment.

Can you tell me, B19...what useful purpose did dinosaurs once have on this earth? I'm more curious what you think dinosaurs did in their time that made them "useful". Or is that just a contrived way to attempt to bash the unions. 'Cuz its a pretty sucky one, if that's all you can come up with.

 

[fischman]

I was going to let the Avantair guys continue their discussion on unions while just reading to be informed. Until now. It just got silly with the dino comment.

Can you tell me, B19...what useful purpose did dinosaurs once have on this earth? I'm more curious what you think dinosaurs did in their time that made them "useful". Or is that just a contrived way to attempt to bash the unions. 'Cuz its a pretty sucky one, if that's all you can come up with.

They made oil.

It is still useful.

Like unions.

And unlike B19.

 

[pilotpat]

LOL fischman...I was waiting for that response. But this knucklehead was eluding to them serving a purpose while on Earth saying they once served a purpose.

And yes...they serve quite a good purpose now!

 

[fischman]

LOL fischman...I was waiting for that response. But this knucklehead was eluding to them serving a purpose while on Earth saying they once served a purpose.

And yes...they serve quite a good purpose now!

I hear ya.

 

[netjetwife]

B19 would have the Avantair pilots think that a union isn't needed but their own experiences lately say otherwise. You should always be suspicious of one who tries to deny reality--they have a hidden agenda.

NJ pilots can attest to the fact that their union is alive and very necessary. The number of calls received by Stewards and the work done by the Union Training Committee are strong evidence of that real-life situation.

Naturally, B19 would rather discuss movies and dinosaurs... instead of actual examples of how a strong union can have a very positive impact on a pilot's career. Had that landing happened to a NJA crew, they, the union, and the company would all be involved in a methodical review of the situation. Rules would be followed and the union would be making sure that the pilots were treated fairly. I think B19 needs to have it spelled out for him.... In reality a union is all about...

Representation
Equality among pilots
A set of rules for both sides
Legal help as required
Income spelled out in advance
The chance to negotiate
Your much needed contract

 

[B19 Flyer]

I think B19 needs to have it spelled out for him.... In reality a union is all about...

Representation
Equality among pilots
A set of rules for both sides
Legal help as required
Income spelled out in advance
The chance to negotiate
Your much needed contract

I spell differently than you do:

Remember
Eastern
Air
Lines
In
The
Year 1991

 

[netjetwife]

More chaff. We are discussing frac pilots and 1108. It is only fair to judge each group by its own track record.

 

[pilotpat]

You may as well blame the mechanics and rampers B19. The pilots voted to sympathy strike with them because Lorenzo wanted to cut their (mech's and rampers) pay. HE was the one who dismantled the airline. HE was the one who screwed the airline and all its employees. Place blame where it should be and come up with something in this century or even this decade if you wanna debate.

 

[B19 Flyer]

More chaff. We are discussing frac pilots and 1108. It is only fair to judge each group by its own track record.

You are right. I left out that it was the Teamsters that represented both Eastern Air Lines AND Pan Am.

Sorry..

 

[B19 Flyer]

You may as well blame the mechanics and rampers B19. The pilots voted to sympathy strike with them because Lorenzo wanted to cut their (mech's and rampers) pay. HE was the one who dismantled the airline. HE was the one who screwed the airline and all its employees. Place blame where it should be and come up with something in this century or even this decade if you wanna debate.

Your total 2000 hours tells me that you weren't even alive when Lorenzo busted the union at Continental and saved how many jobs for Continental, Frontier and People's Express employees after consolidation? I was alive, and I know the downside. Two layoffs were enough for me to seek employment at a non-union carrier to secure my future against those that didn't care about anything but themselves.

 

[pilotpat]

Oh...now its Pan Am... Are you talking about the same Pan Am that terrorists loved so much? Blew up a couple planes and then the family members of Flight 103 decided to sue the company for $300 million? Is that the Pan Am you're talking about?? But I guess the Union was to blame for that one.

By the way...read the "+" at the end of the f'ng number. I'm a lot older than you might think, sir. And that's a mighty big chip on your shoulder if you're judging people by the number of flight hours they have. Tells me a lot about your character. That'd be akin to me saying you're not much of a pilot as my profile shows 2 jet types and you have none. It means nothing.