Attention Tsa Jumpseat Under Attack

[relief tube]

how bad is it when a management group that is second only to Mesa's JO in terms of being reviled, has to give a hojets scab pilot group a get-a-jumpseat free card.

sad we live in a world where an alter ego can staff a willing pilot group.

 

[smokey999]

Because of the NMB ruling in Dec, even if ALPA is voted in at GJ there would still be two pilot groups and CBAs. ALPA national told the TSA pilots this in a letter just prior to voting down the LOA back in Spet. I can get you a copy of this letter if you do not believe me.

So the only way that the two groups could merge at this point is if both sides and the company agreed to it.

These are just the facts. It is not as easy as you make it sound.

I did not see the letter. Could you please post it for me? Thanks

 

[Thebadcat1313]

how bad is it when a management group that is second only to Mesa's JO in terms of being reviled, has to give a hojets scab pilot group a get-a-jumpseat free card.

sad we live in a world where an alter ego can staff a willing pilot group.

I think you're giving TSA management a lot of credit here. They are way worse scum than JO (not defending JO, mind you). The Mesa folks I meet seem generally quite a bit happier than those at TSA. TSA is the most micro-managed regional out there. I don't think there is any other management that despises their employees (especially pilots) as much as they do. The stories of the abuse even in the pre-union days are horrendous. We all need to support the TSA pilots. They are a good bunch of folks who are caught up in a really bad situation. And their MEC extended their contract without the vote or knowledge of the pilot group, allowing management to form ************************* unchallenged. He needs to be recalled.

 

[h25b]

I think you're giving TSA management a lot of credit here. They are way worse scum than JO (not defending JO, mind you). The Mesa folks I meet seem generally quite a bit happier than those at TSA. TSA is the most micro-managed regional out there. I don't think there is any other management that despises their employees (especially pilots) as much as they do. The stories of the abuse even in the pre-union days are horrendous.

And this didn't stop any of them from deciding to go to work there. So this makes me wonder why no one gives the TSA pilots a hard time about being "bottom feeders." I could really care less but it just points out how hypocritical this forum is. So what we have here are a group of people who decided to go to work for the Dr. Evil of the regional airline community and they actually have the guts to ridicule pilots at any other airline.

In one corner we have the pot, and in the other corner we have the kettle. It's quite a shouting match.

 

[johndt]

I don't think there is any other management that despises their employees (especially pilots) as much as they do. The stories of the abuse even in the pre-union days are horrendous. We all need to support the TSA pilots.

TSA management has gotten worse and worse. If you're thinking about a regional to join, look elsewhere. Don't let the contract fool you. The contract isn't bad. In fact, we're above industry standard at a lot of seniority levels as far as pay goes, and our work rules aren't bad either, but TSA won't follow them. You get a lot of, "We don't care. We know it breaks your contract. Grieve it. Do it or you'll be fired."

Thanks for the support.

 

[Motive Flow]

TSA pilots are not usually ridiculed as "bottom feeders" (to our face, at least) probably because we generally have a pretty cool pilot group.

We're not strutting around thinking we have a great contract. We're not under the delusion that we work for a "real airline" (whatever that is).

Remember, when Management wanted us to fly 70 seat A/C for substandard rates, we said "no, thank you."
If we were "bottom feeder pilots" we would be flying those 70 seaters today.

Just my humble opinion. I could be wrong.

 

[smokey999]

As a whole I don't think the TSA pilots "ridicule" other airlines. We've got enough issues in our own back yard, we don't need to go bashing some other pilot groups' decisions. "Mesa bashing"....won't see it here, they did what they had to do to defend themselves from an "Evil" management scheme.

 

[ren]

FYI-
A small group of pilots referred to as the “boys club” is threatening a recall of the MEC Chairman. The motivation for this is speculative, however, this “boys club“, a small group of pilots who live and golf together, believes the MEC Chairman stands between the TSA pilot group and the Go Jet flying. The “boys club” has initiated their efforts on behalf of management for some future promise of individual gain in exchange for the Go Jet flying. A deal with the devil at the expense of the TSA pilot group. The “boys club” involved in organizing this coup includes a flight manager and several check airmen one of which is a MEC representative. You may ask, what motivates management to try to get a deal? Go Jet is not doing well, it is in jeopardy. Except for a small percentage of the pilot group who are truly lost, the TSA pilots stands strong with the MEC Chairman.

 

[panamclipper]

Well - What do you expect when u aggravate the VP of OPS (MW) by calling the FAA instead of handling it in-house.

I don't think this deserves a sticky thread and is a not really a national issue when there are so many other important issues out there.

Good luck-cya

 

[QUAG]

Well - What do you expect when u aggravate the VP of OPS (MW) by calling the FAA instead of handling it in-house.

What a naive statement, you must be management. Let's all remember in the future not to involve the FAA when we think there is a problem, management is there for us and we should just handle it "in-house".

I also agree this thread should not be stickied, but it's obvious someone at flighitnfo has some connection with G0JETS, hence the censoring. I think this thread was stickied to bring attention to the TSA pilot for supposedly "screwing it up" for everyone else. However, I am now glad it's stickied because I believe more people are starting to realize what the TSA pilots are really up against. Stay strong TSA brothers.

 

[panamclipper]

What a naive statement, you must be management.

1) Not a naive statement and I am not management-not even close. Don't even work for them. Just happened to work for (MW) 8 years ago and know how he operates. I like they way when someone says something opposite, or different, or questioning the motives; they get accused of being management.


Let's all remember in the future not to involve the FAA when we think there is a problem, management is there for us and we should just handle it "in-house".

2) Seemed like a really dumb idea to me to call the FAA in regards to a political/company/internal strife issue. Once they get involved who knows what can happen. Never said management was "there" for any pilot, just thought it couldn't come to any meaningful end by bringing the government into the issue.


I also agree this thread should not be stickied, but it's obvious someone at flighitnfo has some connection with G0JETS, hence the censoring. I think this thread was stickied to bring attention to the TSA pilot for supposedly "screwing it up" for everyone else. However, I am now glad it's stickied because I believe more people are starting to realize what the TSA pilots are really up against. Stay strong TSA brothers.

3) Don't see how Flightinfo has some connection with GJTS when they let this thread be stickied, so it eternally can be seen as the #1 issue at the the top of the thread lists. From the looks of it they have a connection with TSA. Anybody can write anything they want about the issue even if they know nothing about it. They don't stop that. As far as censoring it is probably because someone is breaking the message board rules. You can email the moderators and ask them.

4) As far as what the TSA pilots are up against - I am not even going to answer because I don't know the details and I won't speculate. Just thought it was dumb to get the FAA involved that is all.

 

[Reebo]

The whole "jumpseat" issue will be a non issue very soon!

 

[MINIME]

quote=panamclipper]

4) As far as what the TSA pilots are up against - I am not even going to answer because I don't know the details and I won't speculate. Just thought it was dumb to get the FAA involved that is all.

My understanding is that the glorious management at TSAH does not give a ratt's arse if the message was sent from the lord himself. They will do whatever they feel they need to do to put down the opposition. They appear to fire anyone with as much as a hint of bettering the pilots' lives. I think they have gone through the whole list of Union officials already. They've fired just about all of them at one point or another. Now, you tell me, what would you do if you were faced with a situation as such? Go to the CP so he can fire you on the spot? No, because at my company I can actually go and talk to my CP about any problem I may be having. He actually tries to work with you and at the very least acts as if he was on your side. That is not the case a TSAH.

The whole FAA thing is indeed last resort as they normally seem to find a way to fault pilots as a whole (my opinion). But given the situation, the FEDs are heaven compared to TSAH management. If put in a similar situation where my rights as a PIC were being denied, I'd go to the governing authority of the whole thing, end of story. Solve it once and for all and depending on the outcome, either stop my whinning or my company stops the abuses.

I still believe that this fight needs to be fought smarter. It's time to come up with solutions between ALL pilots and a little less of the war tactics.

 

[MINIME]

quote=panamclipper]

ooopps!! double post, damn I need to take this drinking thing easy

 

[ren]

I also agree this thread should not be stickied, but it's obvious someone at flighitnfo has some connection with G0JETS, hence the censoring. I think this thread was stickied to bring attention to the TSA pilot for supposedly "screwing it up" for everyone else. However, I am now glad it's stickied because I believe more people are starting to realize what the TSA pilots are really up against. Stay strong TSA brothers.

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[kjokmo]

And HoJets scum, just to be clear, you aren't welcome on my airplane either. Go take a hike.

Why do pilots always think its their airplane?

 

[johndt]

Why do pilots always think its their airplane?

Probably b/c they sign for it and are responsible for it's safe usage.

Kinda like if you're at a pool hall and even though you don't 'own' the pool cue you're using, if someone says, "hey, is that your stick?" You don't have to go into a long explanation about how it isn't really 'your' stick b/c you didn't purchase it. It's the pool hall's stick, and at the end of the night you'll return it, but you're using it right now.

See how much space that takes up?

 

[kjokmo]

I understand your analogy but just don't agree. I've signed for many aircraft in my career and always considered it to belong to the company.

I got a a feeling it's an ego thing coming from the younger generation pilot flying Barbie Jets around.

Good day to ya.:beer:

 

[Motive Flow]

I don't think it's an ego thing. There are plenty of old-school mainline pilots with the same attitude.

Any 'skiers remember some Frank D. stories? Like when he kicked a Fed off his airplane at Ozark? (I think it was Ozark)

 

[mnalpha]

Oh yea,
Don’t even start to get a warm feeling of respect for that craphole you work at. It has no history (any good) or tradition/respect in this industry. So don’t get your panties in a wad defending it. Its a garbage can filled with garbage and you are a big-mac wrapper. You are the AIDS monkey...

1st off...TSA PILOTS and "Blackbox" are the only people that seem to care about this....Most all the posts here are by TSA Pilots



So you are saying that reguardless of the facts .... My opinion is the only right opinion?





GJ, TSA and TSA Holdings are no different that AE, AA and AMR, or DAL, ComAIR and DAL Holdings.

AE has put AA pilots on the street. ComAir grew at the expense of the DAL Pilots. With our logic no AA or DAL pilot should let a regional pilot in their jumpseat. Professionalism is the difference here.

 

[ricfa78]

[It's interesting that neither one of you can point out where I'm factually incorrect. Like I said before, go ahead and give the FAA a call asking them to back you up on your little jumpseat war. Be sure to let me me what they tell you. My guess would be something along the lines of, "if you're really get that uncomfortable so easily you are way too immature to command a jet aircraft carrying 50 paying passengers...."[/quote]h25b

It's not that our pilots are immature. They are the ones getting fired or suspended by TSA management because they say anything negative to the hojets crews. Actually, the tsa guy's don't even have to say anything negative to you directly, just in your presence. If you don't like what you hear, you run and cry to your "separate" management and try to get the offending party fired. If you weren't such whiney little b!tches maybe this whole jumpseat fiasco would have never started. Now you are in the back with me, and if I notice your ID, I'm letting the CA know and then they can decide whether or not you can stay. Just because you don't say hello to the crew when you walk on (like most decent nonrevs do) doesn't mean the FA in the back is going to let you slide when there is so much going on right now.

 

[f/o(forever)]

can't post

 

[f/o(forever)]

h25b

your turn is coming tool!!

 

[millhouse21]

Actually, the bad things don't even have to be said in the presence of the ************************* puke. All it takes is a report that you referred to one of them in a derogatory way ("I think there might be a ************************* asshole on this plane is an example") and you are history. These are definitely separate companys.

 

[Economy101]

FYI-
A small group of pilots referred to as the “boys club” is threatening a recall of the MEC Chairman. The motivation for this is speculative, however, this “boys club“, a small group of pilots who live and golf together, believes the MEC Chairman stands between the TSA pilot group and the GJ flying. The “boys club” has initiated their efforts on behalf of management for some future promise of individual gain in exchange for the GJ flying. A deal with the devil at the expense of the TSA pilot group. The “boys club” involved in organizing this coup includes a flight manager and several check airmen one of which is a MEC representative. You may ask, what motivates management to try to get a deal? GJ is not doing well, it is in jeopardy. Except for a small percentage of the pilot group who are truly lost, the TSA pilots stands strong with the MEC Chairman.

Ren,
I don't know who the sam hell you think you are....but you don't have the slightest clue as to what you're talking about. I know all of those guys personally and they are all stand up guys. I know TSA MEC Chairman personally and he is a stand up guy. All that happened was two guys talked to our MEC Chair and said you did a great job in the past, we just think labor relations might be too strained for DM to be effective. They then asked if he would consider resigning. That's it! Don't get on this board or any board and try to slander and piss all over guys that have worked their azzes off to get where they are today. I ought to come over and slap the ever loving schit out of you for even posting that. As a dues paying member of ALPA, I have a right to ask my MEC Chair any question, anytime. They are not planning a coup as you'd like to think. They expressed their opinions, some agree and some don't. DM took the question like a man and everybody is moving on. If you actually think they have something planned to rundown this MEC and think they would be ignorant enough to even believe that managment would offer anything for the resignation of DM, I need a hit of what you've been smoking. The "boys club" are my boys! DM is my "boy!" PISS OFF!!!

 

[Frank Bama]

My hat's off to the Trans States MEC and everything that they have done for us. Without 'um we're in a bigger world of $hit than we are now.

Whenever I see a Gayjet pilot I have to wonder, I didn't know spineless people could walk upright.

 

[ATTCS]

This is a post I put on another board. And the response from someone apparently with *************************. It took a few days for me to quit laughing. Can they comprehend any language? It doesn't seem to me they understand English...

It was the ARTCC that called me. I had never said anything about it to anyone...except when they called me.



Old Goat wrote:
So here we can say our heartfelt opinions of *************************. Now that is kinda nice. But not what we will hear about them.

Incidently, ************************* pilots, ORD ARTCC knows who was blocking my transmissions to them a few weeks ago. I was the only Waterski pilot on frequency then. And there was only one *************************...

Also, I was called at my home by a center controller I knew years ago about this. It does seem the call sign 'Gateway' is not too popular among the controller force either.


I suggest that you get off your high horse. A controllers job is to give directions so that the plane can land safely at its destination. They could care less if it is a American 767 or a Go-Jets plane. They controll the airspace you guys fly the plane. What are you 13 or something, Get over it!

 

[Blucher]

Placement?

Can anyone tell me why this thread is on top of all the others? I thought they were lined up based on latest post. What gives?

-Blucher

 

[Tarzan]

It's called a sticky. Admin gives the designation and it remains up top. Probably go away in a short while once the new revision to the GOM comes out.

 

[flyer172r]

I understand your analogy but just don't agree. I've signed for many aircraft in my career and always considered it to belong to the company.

I got a a feeling it's an ego thing coming from the younger generation pilot flying Barbie Jets around.

Good day to ya.:beer:

Well if you want to argue semantics then technically it's not the company's airplane either. In many (most?) cases the airplane belongs to some bank and is leased back to the company. It's just quicker to say "my airplane" than say "the airplane I'm currently responsible for."