AirTran MEC at SWAPA

[The Prussian]

That would be fine by me. I will have no problem accepting the final result. Not so sure about some of the angrier ladies on this board, though.

Your statement right there says a lot about your viewpoint, as well as the viewpoint of most of the AAI pilots. It's easy to accept an arbitrator's decision upfront, when you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. Thanks for at least admitting that much.

 

[Ty Webb]

Your statement right there says a lot about your viewpoint, as well as the viewpoint of most of the AAI pilots. It's easy to accept an arbitrator's decision upfront, when you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. Thanks for at least admitting that much.

Oh, so I don't have anything to lose, is that what you're saying? Yeah, that's right. I've only invested ten years and have gotten to the 30th percentile. I'm only holding the schedules I want, holidays off and a short, on-line commute to ATL.

I have nothing to lose by this merger. Yeah, that extra $50K that I don't really need will make everything OK.

I kept my first wife, bought my house at the right time, and my toys are paid for. Trading away my QoL for more money doesn't interest me. YMMV,

 

[S3sundowner]

So Ty, you'll have no problem accepting a permanent fence at your pay rates? Cool.

 

[vixin]

Oh, so I don't have anything to lose, is that what you're saying? Yeah, that's right. I've only invested ten years and have gotten to the 30th percentile. I'm only holding the schedules I want, holidays off and a short, on-line commute to ATL.

I have nothing to lose by this merger. Yeah, that extra $50K that I don't really need will make everything OK.

KMAYSMF

Like I said keep all that and be an FO. Money isnt important. Who cares about a seat unless you are in need of an ego boost. All the other benefits have been hashed already. Or do you need a refresher of those for the 100th time.

But whats in it for ME? Hypocrite! I know I am an idiot. Big words from such a wordly individual.

 

[MILPILOT17]

Ty, Don't forget that in the real world you guys would have been shown the street after someone escorted you to your desk to retrieve your personal items. The same would have applied to the SWA pilots if a company had come in and purchased SWA. You had a choice and you chose to stay at AT. Be thankful you're not being shown the street!

 

[waveflyer]

Your QOL is going to change Ty- no matter where you end up on the list- the pairings will be very different- we like them a lot here- but the whole operation out of ATL will be different- and your little fiefdom isn't paramount -

Let me introduce a line you will hear all the time at WN-
"it's all about you, isn't it?"
"he's terrible, it's all about him in his world"

You can hold onto your selfishness- but it's about the one thing most southwest employees don't tolerate in their team.

You ought to get on board- bc this ships departing- and it would be a shame if you pissed yourself off, or even pissed this job away- bc you were afraid of changes around the corner. You might just like your new life and company Ty- but all I do know- is that your old life will be different in the not so distant future-

 

[Ty Webb]

WF-

I will do just fine as part of SWA. My point is that there is more to this than pay. Longevity has more value than pay.

Some of your co-workers seem to feel that we should just take the money and shut up about seniority. That isn't the way it works. Pay is transient, seniority is not. If pay rates change downward, are you going to give me my seniority back? I don't think so.

 

[Ty Webb]

Like I said keep all that and be an FO. Money isnt important. Who cares about a seat unless you are in need of an ego boost. All the other benefits have been hashed already. Or do you need a refresher of those for the 100th time.

But whats in it for ME? Hypocrite! I know I am an idiot. Big words from such a wordly individual.

Sorry, pal. If it comes down to money versus seniority, seniority rules. And that is what I have expressed to our MC. I suggest your express your views to your MC.

 

[Kharma Police]

Your QOL is going to change Ty- no matter where you end up on the list- the pairings will be very different- we like them a lot here- but the whole operation out of ATL will be different- and your little fiefdom isn't paramount -

Let me introduce a line you will hear all the time at WN-
"it's all about you, isn't it?"
"he's terrible, it's all about him in his world"

You can hold onto your selfishness- but it's about the one thing most southwest employees don't tolerate in their team.

You ought to get on board- bc this ships departing- and it would be a shame if you pissed yourself off, or even pissed this job away- bc you were afraid of changes around the corner. You might just like your new life and company Ty- but all I do know- is that your old life will be different in the not so distant future-

The subtly of your post is very telling. I have a feeling, Ty and my AirTran people will always be my family and you guys will just be my co-workers.

 

[S3sundowner]

Well that's decided then. I guess you'll get to keep your seniority!

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty, Don't forget that in the real world you guys would have been shown the street after someone escorted you to your desk to retrieve your personal items.

In the "real world" (and I am a business owner, btw) we aren't tied to seniority, and when you change jobs it is almost always a step up . . .not down. That is why McCaskill/Bond and Allegheny/Mohawk exist.

 

[Cometman]

Sorry, pal. If it comes down to money versus seniority, seniority rules. And that is what I have expressed to our MC. I suggest your express your views to your MC.

If you are a 9 yr Captain with AAI then you will be slightly lower with SWA. That means after the fence you will be a FO. Still a good deal.

 

[Ty Webb]

If you are a 9 yr Captain with AAI then you will be slightly lower with SWA. That means after the fence you will be a FO. Still a good deal.

This is my tenth year. I have passed my 9th anniversary. Tenth-year pay. You do understand the way longevity works, right?

Thanks for your concern about my seat and pay, but I think you might be more than just a little surprised in the end. You have yourself a good one, y'hear?

 

[ivauir]

I have a feeling, Ty and my AirTran people will always be my family and you guys will just be my co-workers.

If it goes that way it will be because you choose that path. There are plenty of people ready to welcome you here.

But cordiality is a two way street. There continue to be a perfect and unfortunate non examples in AAI posters.

I can only hope that they are in the minority and that we can fashion a even stronger company going forward.

 

[PapaWoody]

WF-

I will do just fine as part of SWA. My point is that there is more to this than pay. Longevity has more value than pay. ** original text highlighted **

Some of your co-workers seem to feel that we should just take the money and shut up about seniority. That isn't the way it works. Pay is transient, seniority is not. If pay rates change downward, are you going to give me my seniority back? I don't think so.

Ty,

Not to jump on the dog-pile, but I think it's very telling your usage of the word "longevity". Seniority and longevity are two different things, but since we work in a profession where seniority is based upon longevity, why do you think it is okay to disregard our longevity (which relative seniority would do) and gain seniority in this combined company out of sync with your longevity? You work for a smaller, newer company that has lower qualifications to get hired by...of course your longevity will translate into better seniority there. But to expect to transfer that seniority to our company laterally, while reaping all the improvements of our superior contract and work rules...well, you can see why Southwest guys would be a little taken aback by your position. You say you want to be treated fair, and you don't want to "lose" anything, but unfortunately, for you to gain what you stand to gain without acknowledging the differences in longevity based seniority at this company and transfer your seniority straight across would be unfair to every SWA girl/guy on our list.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

 

[Ty Webb]

PW,
This is getting redundant.

Contracts change, seniority doesn't. You seem to think we should give up relative seniority for pay.

If things in the industry or at a combined SW change for the worse, will SWAPA "refund" the relative seniority I gave up because your pay rates were superior? Of course not.

 

[PapaWoody]

PW,
This is getting redundant.

Contracts change, seniority doesn't. You seem to think we should give up relative seniority for pay.

If things in the industry or at a combined SW change for the worse, will SWAPA "refund" the relative seniority I gave up because your pay rates were superior? Of course not.

Ty,

I posed a valid question - why should your longevity at AAI translate into relative seniority at Southwest, considering you were hired at a smaller, newer company with lower qualifications and were able to achieve seniority faster because of that fact? Still waiting for an answer.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

 

[roughneck]

You seem to think we should give up relative seniority for pay.

I don't want to come off as a jerk but you WILL give up relative seniority for our contract and the previledge of working at SWA if they ever combine the two carriers. It won't matter if it goes to arbitration, your relative seniority at AT doesn't equal relative seniority at SWA. Southwest and Airtran are not equals and you are being purchased. This isn't a merger or equals as you seem to believe.

 

[vixin]

PW,
This is getting redundant.

Contracts change, seniority doesn't. You seem to think we should give up relative seniority for pay.

If things in the industry or at a combined SW change for the worse, will SWAPA "refund" the relative seniority I gave up because your pay rates were superior? Of course not.

Talk about redundant. You sir are an IDIOT! I will lower myself to your childish level. Maybe you can now comprehend.

He cant answer questions with his blind eye.

 

[PapaWoody]

Still waiting....**cricket**, **cricket**

 

[GuppyWN]

Ty can't answer your question Papa. To do so would show the weakness in his argument.

Gup

 

[waveflyer]

WF-

I will do just fine as part of SWA. My point is that there is more to this than pay. Longevity has more value than pay.

Some of your co-workers seem to feel that we should just take the money and shut up about seniority. That isn't the way it works. Pay is transient, seniority is not. If pay rates change downward, are you going to give me my seniority back? I don't think so.

You should advocate your position as passionately as possible-
What you and all my Wn brothers should not be doing is spoiling the well, by spooling yourself up debating the details on an anonymous forum.

I've seen expectations ruin a persons attitude for years- bottom line it's my belief that all of our careers just got a LOT better no matter how seniority shakes out. There will be unfairness. That will piss some people off- but success at wn is highly dependent on culture- i honestly dont think it works w/o it- So anybody getting spooled up over this is adding more to the insecurity of this deal than any outcome of the SLI.

I have my opinions- you have yours- none of my opinions will ever make me angry. Can you say the same?

"No one's ever dedicated to something they have complete confidence in. No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow...."

You seem awfully dedicated to responding to about every post, by every idiot with an opinion- you and the PWs on my side need to let the process go

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

I posed a valid question - why should your longevity at AAI translate into relative seniority at Southwest, considering you were hired at a smaller, newer company with lower qualifications and were able to achieve seniority faster because of that fact? Still waiting for an answer.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

What's the big mystery? What do you think I am going to say? I've already said it here about three dozen times, and what has it solved? Nothing, of course.

Let the MC's debate this issue. They'll explain their conclusions. Or the Arbitratrators will. Whatever.

You SWA guys have been pounding on the table for the last 6 weeks telling us we should accept this and that. I'm just countering some of your crap. The issue was dead until a few new guys show up and fanned the flames again.

 

[FL717]

Hey all: Just a quick update to my earlier post from yesterday. As you know I got my 3rd D.U.I recently (as do most Airtran Pilots)... and I am awaiting my court case. Because it is my 3rd time, IF convicted.... I will be going upstate to prison for a minimum of 1 year. My attorney advises me that we are going to use the "Touch my junk" defense. While being frisked by the State Police Officer... I believe he spent WAY too much time groping my fuzzies. Probably not much chance that I will get out of this... but I may get some extra $$$ out of the deal to get me by when I get out of prison.

My plan is this (tell me if this sounds reasonable): I will begin college classes while in prison, and will try to get as much done as I can in a year. Is college hard?? I assume there will be lots of books to read, and some studying and tests... right?? (This whole education thing is very scary and new to me. I was VERY lucky that Airtran hired me because without them... I would have been screwed in finding a Pilot job).

Anywho.... iF they run Airtran and Southwest as separate companies (and I am SURE they will) then by the time I get out of the joint, possibly the Airtran Pilots will be in the process of being re-interviewed and most likely let go. HERE IS MY SHANK IN THE BACK: I WILL HAVE 1 WHOLE YEAR OF COLLEGE!! Do any of you Southwest guys think that will INCREASE my chances of getting hired at Southwest over the rest of the Airtran Pilots who have ZERO college??? I will have 1 WHOLE YEAR of college under my belt (or prison jumpsuit if you will...).

Let me know.... I am really excited about this plan... and can't wait to get to prison to get the plan started...

 

[FL717]

Did I mention: 1 WHOLE YEAR OF COLLEGE!!! I will be like a Harvard Professor compared to the rest of the Airtran Pilot group...

This is gonna be great...

 

[vixin]

FL717 you funny. I like your sense of humor.

 

[PapaWoody]

What's the big mystery? What do you think I am going to say? I've already said it here about three dozen times, and what has it solved? Nothing, of course.

Let the MC's debate this issue. They'll explain their conclusions. Or the Arbitratrators will. Whatever.

You SWA guys have been pounding on the table for the last 6 weeks telling us we should accept this and that. I'm just countering some of your crap. The issue was dead until a few new guys show up and fanned the flames again.

No, Ty, I would never expect you to change your opinions in the face of valid and cogent arguments; or even acknowledge the validity of said arguments. If you did, we might wonder what happened to you and who was posting in your place.

For the record, I have yet to tell you what you should or shouldn't accept, or even offered any solutions to the upcoming SLI (at the request of our BOD). My efforts have been aimed at shooting holes into your theory that somehow you deserve relative seniority out of this process. To do so, I have offered valid and logical arguments that have, for the most part, been met by invalid assumptions and arguments in your case (e.g. the law requires relative seniority).

Contrary to some of your accusations, I have never disparaged AAI pilots or represented SWA pilots as better pilots or people. I realize the benefits that this acquisition brings to the future of Southwest Airlines, and the synergies that will follow when it is all said and done. And I look forward to welcoming former Air Tran pilots into the Southwest family. However, I will stick to my guns and argue that my longevity at Southwest Airlines should and will mean more than your seniority at Air Tran.

In the end, it will be what is negotiated/arbitrated; but until then, I will be here to counter your assertions as to your inalienable rights to seniority at our company.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

 

[dicko]

I don't want to come off as a jerk but you WILL give up relative seniority for our contract and the previledge of working at SWA if they ever combine the two carriers.

Proving once again that ..... "You can't always get what you want"

Sorry man. It's way too late for that. Keep at it though; "it's just a shot away".

 

[SWA/FO]

STAPLE TY to the bottom.

 

[MCDU]

I thought the awa/ usair was a mess. Wow. This is before the list is even put together. It is why doh matters. There is a reason why the majority of labor groups embrace this universal integration method. It keeps all this who is better then who out of the equation. Pilots are a bunch of morons with no concept of unionism. SWA was a stepping stone to the majors back in the 90's. A PFT outfit. SWA is no better then Airtran. Airtran was on the same path as SWA 10 hrs ago.

M
Unc