AirTran MEC at SWAPA

[GuppyWN]

Ty can't answer your question Papa. To do so would show the weakness in his argument.

Gup

 

[waveflyer]

WF-

I will do just fine as part of SWA. My point is that there is more to this than pay. Longevity has more value than pay.

Some of your co-workers seem to feel that we should just take the money and shut up about seniority. That isn't the way it works. Pay is transient, seniority is not. If pay rates change downward, are you going to give me my seniority back? I don't think so.

You should advocate your position as passionately as possible-
What you and all my Wn brothers should not be doing is spoiling the well, by spooling yourself up debating the details on an anonymous forum.

I've seen expectations ruin a persons attitude for years- bottom line it's my belief that all of our careers just got a LOT better no matter how seniority shakes out. There will be unfairness. That will piss some people off- but success at wn is highly dependent on culture- i honestly dont think it works w/o it- So anybody getting spooled up over this is adding more to the insecurity of this deal than any outcome of the SLI.

I have my opinions- you have yours- none of my opinions will ever make me angry. Can you say the same?

"No one's ever dedicated to something they have complete confidence in. No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow...."

You seem awfully dedicated to responding to about every post, by every idiot with an opinion- you and the PWs on my side need to let the process go

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

I posed a valid question - why should your longevity at AAI translate into relative seniority at Southwest, considering you were hired at a smaller, newer company with lower qualifications and were able to achieve seniority faster because of that fact? Still waiting for an answer.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

What's the big mystery? What do you think I am going to say? I've already said it here about three dozen times, and what has it solved? Nothing, of course.

Let the MC's debate this issue. They'll explain their conclusions. Or the Arbitratrators will. Whatever.

You SWA guys have been pounding on the table for the last 6 weeks telling us we should accept this and that. I'm just countering some of your crap. The issue was dead until a few new guys show up and fanned the flames again.

 

[FL717]

Hey all: Just a quick update to my earlier post from yesterday. As you know I got my 3rd D.U.I recently (as do most Airtran Pilots)... and I am awaiting my court case. Because it is my 3rd time, IF convicted.... I will be going upstate to prison for a minimum of 1 year. My attorney advises me that we are going to use the "Touch my junk" defense. While being frisked by the State Police Officer... I believe he spent WAY too much time groping my fuzzies. Probably not much chance that I will get out of this... but I may get some extra $$$ out of the deal to get me by when I get out of prison.

My plan is this (tell me if this sounds reasonable): I will begin college classes while in prison, and will try to get as much done as I can in a year. Is college hard?? I assume there will be lots of books to read, and some studying and tests... right?? (This whole education thing is very scary and new to me. I was VERY lucky that Airtran hired me because without them... I would have been screwed in finding a Pilot job).

Anywho.... iF they run Airtran and Southwest as separate companies (and I am SURE they will) then by the time I get out of the joint, possibly the Airtran Pilots will be in the process of being re-interviewed and most likely let go. HERE IS MY SHANK IN THE BACK: I WILL HAVE 1 WHOLE YEAR OF COLLEGE!! Do any of you Southwest guys think that will INCREASE my chances of getting hired at Southwest over the rest of the Airtran Pilots who have ZERO college??? I will have 1 WHOLE YEAR of college under my belt (or prison jumpsuit if you will...).

Let me know.... I am really excited about this plan... and can't wait to get to prison to get the plan started...

 

[FL717]

Did I mention: 1 WHOLE YEAR OF COLLEGE!!! I will be like a Harvard Professor compared to the rest of the Airtran Pilot group...

This is gonna be great...

 

[vixin]

FL717 you funny. I like your sense of humor.

 

[PapaWoody]

What's the big mystery? What do you think I am going to say? I've already said it here about three dozen times, and what has it solved? Nothing, of course.

Let the MC's debate this issue. They'll explain their conclusions. Or the Arbitratrators will. Whatever.

You SWA guys have been pounding on the table for the last 6 weeks telling us we should accept this and that. I'm just countering some of your crap. The issue was dead until a few new guys show up and fanned the flames again.

No, Ty, I would never expect you to change your opinions in the face of valid and cogent arguments; or even acknowledge the validity of said arguments. If you did, we might wonder what happened to you and who was posting in your place.

For the record, I have yet to tell you what you should or shouldn't accept, or even offered any solutions to the upcoming SLI (at the request of our BOD). My efforts have been aimed at shooting holes into your theory that somehow you deserve relative seniority out of this process. To do so, I have offered valid and logical arguments that have, for the most part, been met by invalid assumptions and arguments in your case (e.g. the law requires relative seniority).

Contrary to some of your accusations, I have never disparaged AAI pilots or represented SWA pilots as better pilots or people. I realize the benefits that this acquisition brings to the future of Southwest Airlines, and the synergies that will follow when it is all said and done. And I look forward to welcoming former Air Tran pilots into the Southwest family. However, I will stick to my guns and argue that my longevity at Southwest Airlines should and will mean more than your seniority at Air Tran.

In the end, it will be what is negotiated/arbitrated; but until then, I will be here to counter your assertions as to your inalienable rights to seniority at our company.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

 

[dicko]

I don't want to come off as a jerk but you WILL give up relative seniority for our contract and the previledge of working at SWA if they ever combine the two carriers.

Proving once again that ..... "You can't always get what you want"

Sorry man. It's way too late for that. Keep at it though; "it's just a shot away".

 

[SWA/FO]

STAPLE TY to the bottom.

 

[MCDU]

I thought the awa/ usair was a mess. Wow. This is before the list is even put together. It is why doh matters. There is a reason why the majority of labor groups embrace this universal integration method. It keeps all this who is better then who out of the equation. Pilots are a bunch of morons with no concept of unionism. SWA was a stepping stone to the majors back in the 90's. A PFT outfit. SWA is no better then Airtran. Airtran was on the same path as SWA 10 hrs ago.

M
Unc

 

[roughneck]

STAPLE TY to the bottom.

I was thinking preferential interview for Dicko.

 

[SWA/FO]

Pilots are a bunch of morons with no concept of unionism. SWA was a stepping stone to the majors back in the 90's. A PFT outfit. SWA is no better then Airtran. Airtran was on the same path as SWA 10 hrs ago.

From a dispatcher? Are you kidding me. Dispatchers are want-to-be Pilots that didn't make the cut, anywhere.

 

[GuppyWN]

If we go DOH I've got dibs on 1992.

Gup

 

[texman]

Heck if that is the case, I will go for 1971.

 

[rajflyboy]

Not to worry. The AT LEC cannot "screw" this up. It will be strictly decided by the arbitrator. Seniority will definately be an issue. I would'nt worry about the benefits, they will fall into place naturally enough. It's in no one's interest to have differing pay scales or benefit packages. Especially SW management.

Pipe Dreams

 

[Lear70]

Pipe Dreams

Which part?

1. It's going to arbitration (more than likely).
2. Seniority will likely be one of the few remaining items to decide, most of the other items will likely be agreed upon before they let an arbitrator have it.
3. There won't be separate ops or a B-scale once the SLI is decided, the companies will more than likely be combined and operated as one within a year or so.

Sounds reasonable enough, what part of that is a pipe dream?

 

[waveflyer]

It should not be a foregone conclusion that arbitration will happen- that's why rationality and a release of any expectations should be paramount

 

[Ty Webb]

It should not be a foregone conclusion that arbitration will happen- that's why rationality and a release of any expectations should be paramount

That would be preferable, but any proposed ISL will have to pass a vote of both Pilot groups . . . . .that seems like quite a hurdle.

 

[SWA/FO]

That would be preferable, but any proposed ISL will have to pass a vote of both Pilot groups . . . . .that seems like quite a hurdle.

Thats just great, but what about the SLI?

 

[jonjuan]

Heck if that is the case, I will go for 1971.

Your funeral then was last week.