Age limit will increase to 67 by years end.

[Abernathy]

No one has mentioned that 2007 to 2012 were safest 5 years in airline history. Keeping experience in the cockpit has to be part of this.

I find that hard to believe with the number of deadly and catastrophic accidents in those 5 years.

Where'd you get that statistic?

Based on your logic, I can also argue that any particular safe year prior to age 65 legislation was due in part to the number of pilots who left at 60.

 

[Flybywire44]

On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 10:59 AM, USAPA Government Affairs Committee ‪<[email protected]>‬ wrote:


Government Affairs Committee

July 3, 2013

Age 67 Retirement Hoax
By now you have probably heard a rumor and seen an authentic looking email about the mandatory retirement age going to 67. There is NO verifiable evidence that any change to the Age 65 rule is being considered by any Congressional Committee or Governmental Agency at this time. Web boards have reported differently, but we can find no evidence from any credible source that this is true. CAPA met with Administrator Michael Huerta in DC two weeks ago, and the last question of our 45-minute meeting, which included Larry Rooney; Mark Niles; Maryann Demarco; and Pete Machtel, was a question from Pete regarding extending the mandatory retirement age. Mr. Huerta stated that there has been NO discussion on the issue. Shown below is the original announcement from 2007 dealing with the change from 60 to 65, as well as*****a portion of the HOAX email from 2012.
Government Affairs Committee
------------------------------------------
*****
REAL ANNOUNCEMENT from 2007:
*****
Release No. AOC 03-07
January 30, 2007
Contact: Alison Duquette*****
Phone:*****(202) 267-3883

WASHINGTON, D.C. ? Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Administrator Marion C. Blakey today announced that the FAA will propose to raise the mandatory retirement age for U.S. commercial pilots from 60 to 65. Speaking before pilots and aviation experts at the National Press Club, Blakey said that the agency plans to propose adopting the new International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) standard that allows one pilot to be up to age 65 provided the other pilot is under age 60.
The FAA plans to issue a formal Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) later this year and will publish a final rule after careful consideration of all public comments, as required by law.
?A pilot?s experience counts ? it?s an added margin of safety,? said Blakey. ?Foreign airlines have demonstrated that experienced pilots in good health can fly beyond age 60 without compromising safety.?
On September 27, 2006, Administrator Blakey established a group of airline, labor and medical experts to recommend whether the United States should adopt the new ICAO standard and determine what actions would be necessary if the FAA were to change its rule. The Age 60 Aviation Rulemaking Committee (ARC) did not reach a consensus recommendation but did provide detailed insight and analysis that will be helpful as the FAA develops a rule.
Since 1959, the FAA has required that all U.S. pilots stop flying commercial airplanes at age 60. In November 2006, ICAO, the United Nations? aviation organization, increased the upper age limit for pilots to age 65, provided that the other pilot is under age 60.
The November 29, 2006 Age 60 ARC report, appendices, and public comments are available online at*****www.regulations.gov, docket number 26139.
*****
HOAX EMAIL from 2012:
Subject: FAA propose to raise mandatory age to 67
WASHINGTON, D.C. " Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Administrator Michael Huerta today announced that the FAA will propose to raise the mandatory retirement age for U.S. commercial pilots from 65 to 67. Speaking before pilots and aviation experts at the National Press Club, Huerta said that the agency plans to propose adopting the new International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) standard that allows one pilot to be up to age 67 provided the other pilot is under age 60. "

Boom.... Roasted. :smash:

 

[waveflyer]

No one has mentioned that 2007 to 2012 were safest 5 years in airline history. Keeping experience in the cockpit has to be part of this.

I'd also like to know what data you use to make such a statement?

Please, cite your sources.

(But know, I've already begun my research- and when you consider global statistics - {you know, we HAD to change age upward bc everyone else was doing it...} you aren't going to like what you find.

In addition- safety data can't be relegated to major accidents only.

I was on FI when this rule change was being debated and occurred. Ever see me write about it? I hated the cold turkey implementation, but I agreed that 60 was young. Now I don't believe anyone ought to captain an airliner after age 60- and that comes from my direct experience - the majority are safe 1 out of 3, 1 out of 5- I have to watch- in essence, I'm the defacto captain without the legal authority, position, or paycheck.

I have serious issues with that.

Most 60+ pilots are at majors flying with very experienced FOs who have been captains for a long time before.
Do not discount what our group is saying and punish us for keeping the aircraft safe-

Keep the experience in the flight deck yip- just keep it in the right seat where captains actually get paid to watch and assess them.

 

[texman]

Pilotyip,

Their is a difference between experience, and to have the mental capacity or memory to apply that experience.

 

[pilotyip]

To the best of my memory there was one 121 fatal accident. Colgan 3407. Please correct me if I am wrong Again all of this is pure get out if my seat the same as 6 years ago

 

[waveflyer]

Is safety just about deadly accidents, yip?

Sounds like management...

 

[SIG600]

To the best of my memory there was one 121 fatal accident. Colgan 3407. Please correct me if I am wrong Again all of this is pure get out if my seat the same as 6 years ago

You do realize that those "safest 5 years" you tout, had the same pilots in the years prior?

Almost to a man (or woman) on here, there are increasing instances of older captains losing their grip on command. Buddy of mine said his 64 year old captain slept two hours one leg last week.

 

[Flopgut]

Again all of this is pure get out if my seat the same as 6 years ago

Except that the age change crowd got the exact retirement age increase they were asking for 5.5 years ago! Just about the biggest windfall any small group of a larger group of professionals has ever been handed in this Country. A Country who's birthday happens to be today. How about instead of carrying on with your ageism crap, you sit down and read the Declaration of Independence today. Then ask yourself if, in view of what has been done in the last 6 years for old pilots, does this Country owe them any more?

 

[kwick]

Except that the age change crowd got the exact retirement age increase they were asking for 5.5 years ago! Just about the biggest windfall any small group of a larger group of professionals has ever been handed in this Country. A Country who's birthday happens to be today. How about instead of carrying on with your ageism crap, you sit down and read the Declaration of Independence today. Then ask yourself if, in view of what has been done in the last 6 years for old pilots, does this Country owe them any more?

Okay, you want to discriminate against Blacks, Jews, Females, what else?

We get it, you're a redneck Nazi, that wants to benefit by discriminating
against others. Just go away!

Earn it on your own, and not at someone else's expense!

 

[Flopgut]

Okay, you want to discriminate against Blacks, Jews, Females, what else?

We get it, you're a redneck Nazi, that wants to benefit by discriminating
against others. Just go away!

Earn it on your own, and not at someone else's expense!

I am a redneck, but that's all you got right.

 

[Flopgut]

Be interesting to know what the founding fathers would think about there being an amendment to the Constitution they wrote called "Fair treatment for experienced pilots". Written by a bunch of pilots who can only rationalize their craven, greedy effort by telling the rest of us "Life isn't fair"...

 

[Abernathy]

To the best of my memory there was one 121 fatal accident. Colgan 3407. Please correct me if I am wrong Again all of this is pure get out if my seat the same as 6 years ago

Remember AF447?

Here's another big one from 2010 that is largely unknown outside of Asia and Europe.

AirBlue Flight 202 (Google it), an Airbus A321, was captained by a 62 year old, 35 year veteran 747 Captain who had retired from the national airline and wanted to keep flying, and joined a new Airbus operator. Long story short, while trying to fly a circle to land approach (at the completion of a flight that he ironically spent berating and humiliating his Air Force Graduate young FO, testing him on knowledge and bragging about his flying superiority), he ignored 21 EGPWS alerts and was described in the official report as "uneasy and confused" ..and crashed into the side of a hill, killing 150 or so passengers and crew.

The report also commented that it was apparent that the younger, sharper FO was fully aware of what was going on, but due to cultural sensitivities and the fact that the Captain just spent the last couple hours trying to humiliate him, he wasn't able to get through to the captain. Nor was ATC.

Quote from the article on wikipedia, which contains quotes from the investigation: In particular, the report noted that the captain ignored or did not properly respond to a multitude of Air Traffic Control directives and automated cabin warning systems. The report also claimed that the first officer passively accepted the captain's actions, after the captain on multiple occasions took a "harsh, snobbish and contrary" tone with the first officer and "berated" him.

Yip, you can fight for your generation all you want. But older and more experienced as a combination doesn't always equal safer. Remember that old saying: you can't teach an old dog new tricks? What happens when 61 year old 737 CA tries to upgrade to a 787 or A330? Maybe nothing. But in reality, at what age would those skills be more easily learned and practiced? What about a 70 year old 777 Captain after flying a 14 hour segment trying to deal with an emergency during an approach into some mountainous region?

The reason that accident is so relevant isn't because it happened to a crew with a captain who just "happend" to be over 60. There is a solid possibility that this crash occurred because this captain was past his expiration date as a professional aviator.

 

[Bringupthebird]

On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 10:59 AM, USAPA Government Affairs Committee ‪<[email protected]>‬ wrote:



Boom.... Roasted. :smash:

But that's coming from a hoax union, so...

Yet one more thing that USAPA (who demands the highest dues of any pilot union) is irrelevant about.

 

[Mamma]

Okay, you want to discriminate against Blacks, Jews, Females, what else?

We get it, you're a redneck Nazi, that wants to benefit by discriminating
against others. Just go away!

Earn it on your own, and not at someone else's expense!

What's wrong with discriminating based on cause? I don't have pedophiles over to babysit my children. I discriminate against them. I don't invite my recovering alcoholic friends over to keggers. I discriminate against them. I don't want 80 year old firemen or police officers. I discriminate against them. I don't want women in the infantry. Once again, I discriminate. But, the point is all my reasons have cause. People discriminate every day as to who they hang out with, who they date, where they shop and so on. So, get over your Nazi names and hyperbole. Pilots should not command aircraft over the age of 65. They really should not be doing it past the age of 62. If you are a captain, you have no clue what you are talking about. If you are an FO that has to fly with these guys and you have a hint of observation skills, you would probably discriminate too.

 

[pilotyip]

Remember AF447?

AirBlue Flight 202 (Google it), an Airbus A321,

I said part 121, to the best of knowledge, neither of these were 121. But this is also Cherry Picking. We sight could many more accidents that happened with pilots under age 60. All pure get out of my seat.