Age limit will increase to 67 by years end.

[cactusboy53]

The top ten reasons you know you are flying with a captain that is over 60 (65)....

1. He / she asks you if you have the communal Preparation H tube "over there"..
2. The flight attendant delivers the new trash bag and a bib...
3. You ask the Captain if he/she would like to go out for dinner after you check into the hotel. The Captain responds..."Depends" (the response wasn't non-committal, he/she was simply deciding whether or not to wear a pair of "Depends").
4. When going over the next IFR approach, the Captain sports a new pair of "Quad-focals", and is impressed that he/she can now easily read the "fine print".
5. While deplaning, a spare walker was left behind next to the gate checked baggage. The Captain grabs it and yells "Dibs!".
6. In between flights, you and the Captain go to Starbucks for a pick-me-up. The Captain orders a "Prune Latte".
7. The Captain's bag of snacks seems to have an inordinate number of treasures with "extra fiber".
8. Although it's pretty warm out, the Captain breaks out a sweater to "break the chill".
9. Whilst taxiing VERY SLOW, you think to yourself that the Captain is demonstrating leadership by example - solidarity for a better contract. Then the Captain exclaims....."Whew! We we're going too FAST!!".
10. During the trip you and the Captain share family backgrounds. The Captain breaks out pictures of GREAT GRAND CHILDREN!!

 

[pilotyip]

The top ten reasons you know you are flying with a captain that is over 60 (65)....

1. He / she asks you if you have the communal Preparation H tube "over there"..
2. The flight attendant delivers the new trash bag and a bib...
3. You ask the Captain if he/she would like to go out for dinner after you check into the hotel. The Captain responds..."Depends" (the response wasn't non-committal, he/she was simply deciding whether or not to wear a pair of "Depends").
4. When going over the next IFR approach, the Captain sports a new pair of "Quad-focals", and is impressed that he/she can now easily read the "fine print".
5. While deplaning, a spare walker was left behind next to the gate checked baggage. The Captain grabs it and yells "Dibs!".
6. In between flights, you and the Captain go to Starbucks for a pick-me-up. The Captain orders a "Prune Latte".
7. The Captain's bag of snacks seems to have an inordinate number of treasures with "extra fiber".
8. Although it's pretty warm out, the Captain breaks out a sweater to "break the chill".
9. Whilst taxiing VERY SLOW, you think to yourself that the Captain is demonstrating leadership by example - solidarity for a better contract. Then the Captain exclaims....."Whew! We we're going too FAST!!".
10. During the trip you and the Captain share family backgrounds. The Captain breaks out pictures of GREAT GRAND CHILDREN!!

And if things work out for you, you too may be old some day. For many of pilot friends they never got to be old. And you will be thankful that you can still eat the high fiber snacks, as opposed to facing Colan Cancer. And if you are not using Prep H, then you don't have enough hours in the sit yet. BTW I think the age should raised to 75, then I would have chance to get one of those great CRJ jobs.

 

[cactusboy53]

And if things work out for you, you too may be old some day. For many of pilot friends they never got to be old. And you will be thankful that you can still eat the high fiber snacks, as opposed to facing Colan Cancer. And if you are not using Prep H, then you don't have enough hours in the sit yet. BTW I think the age should raised to 75, then I would have chance to get one of those great CRJ jobs.

Relax Francis, I already am "old". I've been getting mailings from AARP for years. Waking up and making noises that my dad used to make. Enjoying a nice bowl of figs (I actually do like them). If I knew I was going to live this long, I would have treated my body a lot better!

 

[flyboyike]

Mocking, vilifying and denigrating your fellow pilots solely because you are upset at a federal government rule that is delaying your ability to upgrade.

It didn't just delay upgrades, it ruined careers and families. How many more must be ruined for the sake of a few more Corvettes? How much is ever enough?

 

[Sacha]

Ruined careers and families? Really?

Drama Queen to say the least......

If moving the Retirement Age from 60 to 65 ruined your career or family, I would venture to say they were already a mess.

 

[Sacha]

Ruined careers and families? Really?

Drama Queen to say the least......

If moving the Retirement Age from 60 to 65 ruined your career or family, I would venture to say they were already a mess.

Oh the Humanity!!!!

 

[General Lee]

I would not want my career to benefit based on discrimination against others based
on race, religion or age or gender.

Police officers have to retire at a certain age. Also, you can't become President of the United States unless you are at least 35 years old.( Article 2 of the Constitution). Isn't that age discrimination? Yeah, it is.

The main reason it changed from age 60 to 65 is because ICAO forced the FAA's hand due to a larger pilot shortage in Europe. When the Euopean LCCs expanded, there were very few other pilots available, primarily because it is even more cost prohibitive there than it is here, resulting in a shortage. Europe started to allow age 65, and some of those senior pilots at airlines like Turkish Air had pilots over age 60 flying widebodies to the US.

If there has to be an age increase, I would hope it goes like Canada's--- which did increase it to age 70 (I don't want 70 at all, btw). For them, at 65 you have to go to the right seat of a narrowbody or cruise officer on a widebody (with no takeoffs or landings--on widebody). Bad overall (especially for newhires), but it preserves upgrades.


Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

Ruined careers and families? Really?

Drama Queen to say the least......

If moving the Retirement Age from 60 to 65 ruined your career or family, I would venture to say they were already a mess.

You do know that legacy airlines hired in anticipation of retirements that one day never came- and then immediately furloughed those they'd just hired within the year? You know that, right?

Many of those were forced to accept recall after their 9/11 furloughs, bypassing as long as they could- leaving good $80k jobs to go back- just to be jobless-

I know 3 who's wives made them choose after that: aviation or their marriage.

You know that's what the rule change did to many, right? Please tell me you haven't convinced yourself that this rule change didn't f^ck over thousands? It's not all about SWA FOs who didn't get to upgrade as fast- I don't feel bad for them either- but it furloughed thousands at every other airline- and it caused stagnation almost everywhere else-

 

[waveflyer]

Mocking, vilifying and denigrating your fellow pilots solely because you are upset at a federal government rule that is delaying your ability to upgrade.
im not "upset" at my situation at all- and certainly not overly concerned about an upgrade- I love SWA and would rather retire here in the right seat than work anywhere else- just dont pretend the rule change didn't put a whole lot of very experienced middle aged pilots in a real bad spot- that's you being the jerk if you don't see that

Oh yes, I do see the irony, especially from you who see's himself as the "why can't we all just get along" type of guy.........

Until your ox is gored......then you revert to the meanest, nastiest, jerk around.

Yes, I DO see the irony. And I am looking forward to your 60 th birthday when you hang it up... But I bet you won't. Because guys like you are hypocrites.

haha- I'm pretty sure no one on FI views me that way- but I promise I don't take this site as seriously as you do apparently-

But if you're worried about a few words on a screen- you're right- I pull no punches, so I'd suggest not trying to "gore my ox"

 

[texman]

Wave,

We had our DO make that decesion in the corporate world. A lot of old retired guys at the fractionals. They had a lot of experience, but it was challenging envoriment for them. I saw and flew with guys that where out to lunch. Some where 60years old and Couldn't even do their job nor fly in to challenging environments. The SA level was so poor, the young guys where baby sitting all the time.

What the FAA needs to do is ask all the fractional pilots about this issue. I guarantee that they would say the same thing. If this goes to say 70, I want captain hazardous duty pay. It's not a discrimination thing. It's the mind losing the capacity to function. It is a SAFETY issue.

 

[Sacha]

If you are looking for fairness, the Airline Industry ain't the place.

Never has been. Never will be.

If you didn't realize the risks going into it, you should have taken a job with the Government.

I hope if you are investing for your retirement you stick to Treasuries as opposed to Equities...then again.....maybe not....nothing is for certain except taxes and Big Government.

 

[flyboyike]

Oh the Humanity!!!!

Quote yourself a lot, do ya?

 

[list2002]

What whymeworry? wrote was good.
The CPO is too scared to do anything due to a lawsuit, is friends with pilot, "they are going to retire in a year anyway," etc. We have a system that protects these pilots that create very dangerous situations. The worst part is that these are the d!cks that have no idea how off they are. It's not 100% an age thing, but those losing some of their "awareness" may be the last to realize it unless someone lets it be known. I'd rather have to retire a couple years early than crash an airplane and possibly kill people, but pride is a b!tch for some. A more discriminating (yes I said it) safety net is required either by the company itself (ha) or the FAA.
A four day of having to argue with a pilot to just follow SOP or do what is expected of their job is insane.

 

[Mamma]

If you are looking for fairness, the Airline Industry ain't the place.

Never has been. Never will be..

Fairness has nothing to do with it. YOU cannot evaluate your own mental capabilities better than the guy sitting next to you. Geezer captains do not fly with other old timers so they really cannot comment on the issue. My over 60 capt slept over an hour on the way back yesterday because his body could not handle the 3am wake up call. You guys have to put your pride down and realize your capabilities are on a downward trajectory.

 

[Sacha]

I just turned 50. How old are you?

Most F/O's I fly with are between 35 and 50. I have to say on average they are probably between 20 to 50 lbs overweight. Eating habits from what I have seen are less than optimal. Most drink more than recommended. Perhaps we should have some real fitness evaluations every 6 months for all pilots. I'm game. Are you? I put in between 60-90 days a season skiing both downhill and cross country. Compete in both. Teach in downhill.
Mountain bike and tennis in summer with a couple of mini-tri's each year. I would be more than confident on passing a real fitness evaluation but I bet over half the tubby hipster wanna be's couldn't do it. Before you start passing judgement on the mental and physical fitness of the guy in the left seat, perhaps you take a look in the mirror and be honest with yourself first. Take a look at the guys walking down the concourse next time your at work. Not much difference between the tubby middle aged F/O's or Captains and the tubby or obese Flight Attendants which represent the majority.

Lets face it. This isn't about fitness or skill or mental acuity. This is about wanting what the other guy has and playing the victim card. And if you can't have what the other guy has for whatever reason, the next step is to ridicule, mock or denigrate that individual. That's the way we do things here in America now. It's easy. Everyone gets a First Place Trophy.

 

[Mamma]

I just turned 50. How old are you?

Most F/O's I fly with are between 35 and 50. I have to say on average they are probably between 20 to 50 lbs overweight. Eating habits from what I have seen are less than optimal. Most drink more than recommended. Perhaps we should have some real fitness evaluations every 6 months for all pilots. I'm game. Are you? I put in between 60-90 days a season skiing both downhill and cross country. Compete in both. Teach in downhill.
Mountain bike and tennis in summer with a couple of mini-tri's each year. I would be more than confident on passing a real fitness evaluation but I bet over half the tubby hipster wanna be's couldn't do it. Before you start passing judgement on the mental and physical fitness of the guy in the left seat, perhaps you take a look in the mirror and be honest with yourself first. Take a look at the guys walking down the concourse next time your at work. Not much difference between the tubby middle aged F/O's or Captains and the tubby or obese Flight Attendants which represent the majority.

Lets face it. This isn't about fitness or skill or mental acuity. This is about wanting what the other guy has and playing the victim card. And if you can't have what the other guy has for whatever reason, the next step is to ridicule, mock or denigrate that individual. That's the way we do things here in America now. It's easy. Everyone gets a First Place Trophy.

I'm 41 and in exceptional shape! Those people you described are a large part of the pilot population and I agree with you. Problem is, the problems get exponential as age increases. So, the guys like you yourself described are now flying over 60 and are having a hard time hacking it. The younger slobs still have the gift of youth to pull them through. You are not the normal pilot and most of the guys I've flown with over 60 are in the group you previously described and its not good. That being said, your assumptions about me and many others are incorrect.

 

[pilotyip]

. My over 60 capt slept over an hour on the way back yesterday because his body could not handle the 3am wake up call.

Right, this has never happened to a pilot under the age of 60. In my 30's flying the Emery hub out of KDAY at night, that was the only way you could sure you would be awake for the approach the your destination.

 

[General Lee]

I just turned 50. How old are you?

Most F/O's I fly with are between 35 and 50. I have to say on average they are probably between 20 to 50 lbs overweight. Eating habits from what I have seen are less than optimal. Most drink more than recommended. Perhaps we should have some real fitness evaluations every 6 months for all pilots. I'm game. Are you? I put in between 60-90 days a season skiing both downhill and cross country. Compete in both. Teach in downhill.
Mountain bike and tennis in summer with a couple of mini-tri's each year. I would be more than confident on passing a real fitness evaluation but I bet over half the tubby hipster wanna be's couldn't do it. Before you start passing judgement on the mental and physical fitness of the guy in the left seat, perhaps you take a look in the mirror and be honest with yourself first. Take a look at the guys walking down the concourse next time your at work. Not much difference between the tubby middle aged F/O's or Captains and the tubby or obese Flight Attendants which represent the majority.

Lets face it. This isn't about fitness or skill or mental acuity. This is about wanting what the other guy has and playing the victim card. And if you can't have what the other guy has for whatever reason, the next step is to ridicule, mock or denigrate that individual. That's the way we do things here in America now. It's easy. Everyone gets a First Place Trophy.

Canada seems to have figured it out, booting the Captain from the left seat at 65 to the right seat. If it's an ego thing, those guys will just retire. If it's a monetary thing, they will stay. If they fall asleep while flying because they are old, they will be gone soon.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[nordo_2]

If you encounter anyone who is a detriment to your career, who obviously is not well, and/or glaringly dangerous. That could be someone who is north of 60, or not.

Then just take matters into your own hands and refuse to fly with them. Annotate/document the issues, use lawyer proof phrases like, "Due to Safety of Fiight". Email them to the company chief pilot, H.R. and D.O.. Forget Pro-standards, they have a legal obligation to represent all members equally. As a result of this, the union pro-standards has no recourse to adversely affect either member. What ends up happening in pro-standards will be nothing but a, "Cant we all just get a long".

This also works great for the general a$$hole in the bunch, my personal favorite. These are rare instances, but they do occur.

 

[flygirlqt]

My guess would be if ALPA did not sell out and capitulate on pensions over the past 15 or 20, years we would not be having this conversation.

But ALPA is all about ALPA first and foremost.