Age limit will increase to 67 by years end.

[BuckMurdock1]

Early oil days analogy;
If you are given indications that your oil well will be drying up in a few years, do you:

A) Do nothing but simply increase the flow of that existing well and hope for the best?
B) Dedicate resources to new oil discovery.

--aspiring airline pilots = new oil discovery--

 

[filejw]

or "Greediest Generation" (rhymes better with 'greatest'). I know someone said it before, but one way to quell this is for DOT/FAA to limit the advancement of Pt.121 flying past 65 to "SIC privileges only". My guess is that the ego on over 1/2 the guys wouldn't let them stoop to being a lowly 'co-pilot' again...so call it a career. Also; I think it should not be a retroactive privilege...as in if you mandatorily retire at age 65, no going back to fly another 2 yrs. Must be 'current'/currently employed when/if limit is extended to be eligible for privileges.

I'm sorry, but I don't think the 'pilot shortage' is going to justify doing something like this. If we are truly heading for a 'pilot shortage', we need to concentrate on bringing people 'into' the industrial pipeline; as in airlines buy some c150s and let aspiring pilots tool around in them until they get their ATPs and then offer them a liveable wage! I don't think letting thousands of old gummers who should've retired years ago fly another two years and continue to clog up the seniority list is necessarily the correct approach. Heck- age 60 was the mandatory age for like 50 yrs and now---4yrs after it is changed to 65; people are already b*tching about lengthening it more?!?!?!? The f*cking greed is unbelievable!!!

IMHO, of course...

You guys need to realize how much this age thing is driven by ICAO and not the FAA. What ever the world does we will too. Right now they are trying to get removed the one guy under 60 part of the rule.Will take at least 18 months. 67 or 70 is years away. The UN moves like molasses .

FYI is just had a little surgery and got the best guy in town.He is 66.

 

[flyboyike]

You guys need to realize how much this age thing is driven by ICAO and not the FAA. What ever the world does we will too.

It's not like the US follows the world in too many other aspects, why must we follow the world in this?

 

[Flybywire44]

You guys need to realize how much this age thing is driven by ICAO and not the FAA. What ever the world does we will too. Right now they are trying to get removed the one guy under 60 part of the rule.Will take at least 18 months. 67 or 70 is years away. The UN moves like molasses .

FYI is just had a little surgery and got the best guy in town.He is 66.

You may be right, but have you ever heard of the metric system?

:beer:

 

[filejw]

It's not like the US follows the world in too many other aspects, why must we follow the world in this?

Guess its because when you belong to an organization ( ICAO ) you try to best you can keep in step with the rest of the members. Age 65 rule is good example.People have been trying get the rule changed for at least 40 plus years and most likely from when the American CEO got it implemented so he wouldnt have to pay the longevity of his senior pilots.However nothing really happened till ICAO changed its rules. When you think about it having forginers fly into he US at age 60 plus and then not allowing your own citizens to do the same wasnt going to work.ALPA could have resisted all it wants but I don't think things would have changed much. I was reading something recently that was saying the right to work was a human rights issue.WTF..

 

[flyboyike]

Guess its because when you belong to an organization ( ICAO ) you try to best you can keep in step with the rest of the members.

We also belong to the UN.

 

[madjack]

Don't forget the bankruptcies and pension dumping

 

[waveflyer]

+1.

And I doubt we'll be able to stop another age increase. My suggestion to everyone who opposes any further age increases is to advocate a phased in increase - where the age limit changes by 1 month every 3 months. This would change the age limit from 65 to 70 over 15 years. As a sweetener to those who want to increase the age limit, make the new limit 75 to be phased in over 30 years. I'd prefer to keep the line at 65 but Pandora's Box has been opened.

F^ck that

I've carried the load in enough awkward situations where the gummers can't lead or fly or both anymore- I have serious issues with age 60+ captains- this is not a popular view, but I think we should let people retire when they're ready, but they should not be captains over 60, in charge of evaluating themselves as they age-
It's dumb- nobody's good at that.

 

[flyboyike]

F^ck that

I've carried the load in enough awkward situations where the gummers can't lead or fly or both anymore- I have serious issues with age 60+ captains- this is not a popular view, but I think we should let people retire when they're ready, but they should not be captains over 60, in charge of evaluating themselves as they age-
It's dumb- nobody's good at that.

Amen!

 

[Mamma]

F^ck that

I've carried the load in enough awkward situations where the gummers can't lead or fly or both anymore- I have serious issues with age 60+ captains- this is not a popular view, but I think we should let people retire when they're ready, but they should not be captains over 60, in charge of evaluating themselves as they age-
It's dumb- nobody's good at that.

True. I've had my share of "sleepers" too. They are generally ok to fly with but it's pretty easy to see they are struggling with either memory or fatigue. It would suck to have all the top FO lines filled by these guys who just can't hang it up though. Imagine the top 500 lines filled with the gummers.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Better than the top 500 CA lines.

True. I've had my share of "sleepers" too. They are generally ok to fly with but it's pretty easy to see they are struggling with either memory or fatigue. It would suck to have all the top FO lines filled by these guys who just can't hang it up though. Imagine the top 500 lines filled with the gummers.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

another[/I] two years and continue to clog up the seniority list is necessarily the correct approach. Heck- age 60 was the mandatory age for like 50 yrs and now---4yrs after it is changed to 65; people are already b*tching about lengthening it more?!?!?!? The f*cking greed is unbelievable!!!

IMHO, of course...

Sorry Buck,
Your writing is contradictory, "gummers, greed, clogging up the seniority list" you sound bitter and greedy.....
65? I will be lucky to make it to 60, while I like to fly, I actually despise the airline industry, the thought of doing 20 more makes me want to throw up. After having a couple of other careers/jobs, airline pilots are, with few, and I mean few exceptions flat out pu$$ies! If I had a nickel for every pilot who I heard say "I would do this for free" I could retire now, on my own island in the Keys.
BTW my contact at ALPA national asked me how I felt about age 67, I said I hope you can find someone who wants to fly that long.

 

[vetrider]

"BTW my contact at ALPA national asked me how I felt about age 67, I said I hope you can find someone who wants to fly that long."

That means nothing, they'll do what want, one way or another. A good story will be made up, they'll have an explanation, but they'll still do opposite what the membership wants if need be.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

"BTW my contact at ALPA national asked me how I felt about age 67, I said I hope you can find someone who wants to fly that long."

That means nothing, they'll do what want, one way or another. A good story will be made up, they'll have an explanation, but they'll still do opposite what the membership wants if need be.

Point is just about every one with a dog in the fight, except the pilots is aware of the impending change.

 

[flygirlqt]

I had dinner the other night with a friend of mine who is a FAA lawyer. He has said there have already been discussions from their end in legal and it is, in his opinion, going to eventually happen.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I had dinner the other night with a friend of mine who is a FAA lawyer. He has said there have already been discussions from their end in legal and it is, in his opinion, going to eventually happen.

WHOA!
FAA and a lawyer, now there's a double whammy!

 

[flygirlqt]

WHOA!
FAA and a lawyer, now there's a double whammy!

Yes. He was

 

[madjack]

ICAO and the rise in SS age will be a factor...how many will keep working?

 

[Andy]

F^ck that

I've carried the load in enough awkward situations where the gummers can't lead or fly or both anymore- I have serious issues with age 60+ captains- this is not a popular view, but I think we should let people retire when they're ready, but they should not be captains over 60, in charge of evaluating themselves as they age-
It's dumb- nobody's good at that.

I can't argue with your post. Question: Did you file any reports due to these incidents? If the answer is NO, then you are greasing the skids for another age change.

 

[LaGarbage Man]

ICAO and the rise in SS age will be a factor...how many will keep working?

All of them unfortunately

 

[kwick]

The public will insist that we keep the most experienced pilots on the job.

We can't afford to risk our safety on the thousands of brand new, relatively
inexperienced pilots that will be joining the major airlines.

The only people against increased experience and safety are those inpatient pilots that
couldn't get hired at the fast-growing, profitable airlines.

These guys think that they don't need to pay their dues, or learn on the job.
They think that they already know everything.

Basically, they don't know what they don't know. They are the most dangerous guys
in the business. They don't respect the knowledge gained through experience on the
job.

It's pretty scary listening to brand new first officers complain about waiting a few years
for their upgrades.

I think there needs to be more respect for the profession, and the pilots that have
been there before us , and have led the way.

Every Embry-Rddle graduate feels that they're ready for an airline command
immediately. But are they, really?

Evey air force hot-shot thinks he's way better from day one. Is he really?

I respect my profession, and aspire be be as good or better than the guys that were
senior to me, and led the way.

There are no "Short Cuts" in this business.

 

[flyboyike]

Sorry Buck,
65? I will be lucky to make it to 60, while I like to fly...

I'm with you. Once I pay my house off (should be by age 50), I'll become extinct without any outside prompting.

 

[flyboyike]

The only people against increased experience and safety are those inpatient pilots that
couldn't get hired at the fast-growing, profitable airlines.

These guys think that they don't need to pay their dues, or learn on the job.
They think that they already know everything.

Basically, they don't know what they don't know. They are the most dangerous guys
in the business. They don't respect the knowledge gained through experience on the
job.

It's pretty scary listening to brand new first officers complain about waiting a few years
for their upgrades.

What about first officers who are not brand new, who have already been furloughed twice, who've already been through one airline shutdown, who already have thousands of hours of jet time? Do they need to pay more dues? How much is enough, as far as dues are concerned?

What's scary is someone who can't tell impatient from inpatient lecturing others on knowledge. Heck, that's damn near petrifying.

 

[LaGarbage Man]

What about first officers who are not brand new, who have already been furloughed twice, who've already been through one airline shutdown, who already have thousands of hours of jet time? Do they need to pay more dues? How much is enough, as far as dues are concerned?

What's scary is someone who can't tell impatient from inpatient lecturing others on knowledge. Heck, that's damn near petrifying.

+1 with this post
Many of us have been more than patient and rolled with the punches thru more than a decade of upheaval. I can assure you we have amassed thousands of hours of experience and more than paid our dues. These pilots have enjoyed the advantage of movement provided by age 60 and then gained yet another 5 years to get their house in order. In my opinion that is more than enough time. While I respect those who have come before I ultimately have an obligation to provide the benefits of my hard work to my own family. It has been a pleasure flying with many of them and I have learned a lot but the time has come to move on. Kwick you paint with a very broad brush implying that we are impatient and greedy for wanting exactly the same benefit that the generation before us has enjoyed. I disagree completely with your assessment and would challenge you do a thorough review of the majority (there will always be exceptions) of the previous generations careers and then compare it with what the majority of what this generation of pilots have had to endure. Once complete could you again please share with us how you think WE are the greedy ones.

 

[waveflyer]

"BTW my contact at ALPA national asked me how I felt about age 67, I said I hope you can find someone who wants to fly that long."

That means nothing, they'll do what want, one way or another. A good story will be made up, they'll have an explanation, but they'll still do opposite what the membership wants if need be.

Do you honestly think anybody is buying that
"we'll retire before we have to" line??

"There's an old saying in Tennessee... Well, I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee... Says 'fool me once, shame on...., fool me... If you fool me, can't get fooled again"

 

[jynxyjericho]

There are no "Short Cuts" in this business.

Unless you buy your job or pay for your training.

Don't be fooled kids, those pilots taking the short cut are, for the most part, way ahead of you.

 

[kwick]

I would not want my career to benefit based on discrimination against others based
on race, religion or age or gender.

 

[flyboyike]

I would not want my career to benefit based on discrimination against others based
on race, religion or age or gender.

You forgot national origin, food preference and favorite color. I mean, if you're going for the non-sequitirs, might as well use them all.

 

[kwick]

You forgot national origin, food preference and favorite color. I mean, if you're going for the non-sequitirs, might as well use them all.

? I think you might mean "non sequiturs"

You're welcome.

Sometimes bad attitudes come across in an interview situation.

Having a positive mind-set usually yields better results and makes for
a better environment on the flight deck.

Good interviewers can spot malcontents.

 

[flyboyike]

? I think you might mean "non sequiturs"

You're welcome.

Sometimes bad attitudes come across in an interview situation.

Having a positive mind-set usually yields better results and makes for
a better environment on the flight deck.

Good interviewers can spot malcontents.

I think you might mean "mindset".

You're welcome.