AA recalls starting to increase

[xtwapilot]

As Paul Harvey would say, "and now for the rest of the story." The reason why TWA had $20 million cash on hand was because, TWA had a note due in Feb 2001, which in previous three 10Q was stated and not being an issue to refinance. It is also documented that the TWA bk was a condition of sale, TWA was not in Bk prior to the AA offer. Now, TWA needed to justify the reason for going into bk, and the only way to do that was to show a cash crunch. The way TWA went about doing that was to pay the note due in Feb, instead of refinancing it, and they paid several large accounts payable early. This created an artifical cash crunch and the justification for the bk. AA also had a poison pill in providing the DIP financing, which created the perfect storm.
Yes Compton was telling the truth when he said there was a cash crunch, what he didn't say was that the cash crunch was induced by TWA to justify the bk filing and ultimately to get rid of Karibu, and ensure that AA would be the only viable candidate for DIP financing because of a $50 million poison pill.
That is the rest of the story. The big problem with some AA types is that they want to justify the screwing of TWA pilots and the only thing they come up with is TWA would be out of business, or TWA was bk. But in the end if it makes some of them sleep better or look at themselves in the mirror with the straight face, then so be it. Most of us have moved on beyond Jan 10,2001. It's time for some AA types to do the same.

Xtwapilot

 

[G4G5]

Yeah, let's play "Your CEO said this..." I guess they ALL tell the truth, don't they G4G5? What were Carty's statements about "fair and equitable?"

stlflyguy

If you are trying to tell us that the CEO of a major US Corporation went to a Senate Hearing Investigation Hearing and purgered himself, then please provide the evidence.

Look I am not trying to drudge up old dirt, just provide the truth.

Yes one pilot did come back from furlough directly to the left seat, I provided the evidence. If you want to read the direct testimony from the TWA CEOto Capital Hill (aka the truth) , I provided the web site.

 

[CitationLover]

This is wrong.

The fact is, as mentioned above that one former TWA pilot did come back from furlough and directly into the left seat of an MD80 in STL. This can be verified by anyone with access to the APA web site. It is listed under the Benefits/Sevices, then the Furlough section, then Recall Stats.

he was speaking in the PRESENT tense and not the PAST tense. NO ONE is coming off the street now into the left seat, he made it sound like lots of people are (notice the says pilots).

Moreover, furloughed former TWA pilots are coming off the street straight to the left seat of an AA Super 80. This is from a 17 year AA native FO that is still throwing gear.

 

[TWA Dude]

If you are trying to tell us that the CEO of a major US Corporation went to a Senate Hearing Investigation Hearing and purgered himself, then please provide the evidence.

No purjury, he was applying spin. AWA's Doug Parker did the same thing when he told a bunch of USAir guys that absent the merger AWA would've gone Chapter 11 six months down the road. It's an opinion, not a fact, since it deals with the future. For the closest thing to facts look at the SEC filings.

 

[pkober]

As Paul Harvey would say, "and now for the rest of the story." The reason why TWA had $20 million cash on hand was because, TWA had a note due in Feb 2001, which in previous three 10Q was stated and not being an issue to refinance. It is also documented that the TWA bk was a condition of sale, TWA was not in Bk prior to the AA offer. Now, TWA needed to justify the reason for going into bk, and the only way to do that was to show a cash crunch. The way TWA went about doing that was to pay the note due in Feb, instead of refinancing it, and they paid several large accounts payable early. This created an artifical cash crunch and the justification for the bk. AA also had a poison pill in providing the DIP financing, which created the perfect storm.
Yes Compton was telling the truth when he said there was a cash crunch, what he didn't say was that the cash crunch was induced by TWA to justify the bk filing and ultimately to get rid of Karibu, and ensure that AA would be the only viable candidate for DIP financing because of a $50 million poison pill.
That is the rest of the story. The big problem with some AA types is that they want to justify the screwing of TWA pilots and the only thing they come up with is TWA would be out of business, or TWA was bk. But in the end if it makes some of them sleep better or look at themselves in the mirror with the straight face, then so be it. Most of us have moved on beyond Jan 10,2001. It's time for some AA types to do the same.

Xtwapilot

Getting "screwed" is in the eye of the beholder. No AA guy will ever say they screwed us, just like no TWA pilot will ever say we got a good deal.

No one can't say that TWA would have folded after 9-11 just like in 1999 no one couldn't have possibly seen that UAL, DAL and NWA would file bankruptcy.

The fact is that any junior AA pilot within 1000-1200 numbers who can't aleast recognize that without the TWA purchase and staple they would have been on the street is just plain smoking crack. AA would have furloughed after 9-11 and the stapled TWA pilots took the brunt of those furloughs. Those are facts.

Complaining that you are still pulling gear after 17 years while fellow APA members (TWA or AA) are furloughed is childish whining. Get real. Many people are financially ruined by the furlough. These are your union brothers.

 

[AA717driver]

G4G5--Not telling the whole story doesn't qualify as "perjury". What follows comes straight from a member of the TWA BOD who was present and an integral part of any and all discussions that determined TWA's fate:

The day before the AA deal broke in the papers, there was another deal on the table before the BOD (the Company BOD, not the union...). Bill Compton pleaded for an opportunity to finalize a deal that would be 'better for everyone'. That was the AA deal.

One of the conditions of the deal on the table was that Compton be replaced by professional management. He had no golden parachute--he gets to return to the line.

The BOD, out of respect for Compton, granted his wish, gave him time and the rest is history. Compton walked away with a 7-figure payout from AA...

As for the RUMOR that ANY former TWA pilot returned from involuntary furlough as a CA is false. I was in the July 31 class and you can bet your a$$ I would know.

I'm about 3 years away now. TC

P.S.--Correcting misinformation is not "arguing". There is a lot of misinformation floating around out there and it does no one any good to allow it to spread.

 

[FreightGod]

he was speaking in the PRESENT tense and not the PAST tense. NO ONE is coming off the street now into the left seat, he made it sound like lots of people are (notice the says pilots).

Uh, would that be me?

Perhaps I goofed, let me clearify:

In my recall class Oct 3rd, we had quite a few ex-TWA dudes who came in with re-instatement rights to MD-80 Captain, St. Louis.
Each name and their reinstatement rights were called out loud and clear by Scott Hansen. They were however witheld, some as B-767 F/Os.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I thought these guys then get 12 year Captains pay while flying F/O?
If that is correct, it is not a shabby deal compared to some of us native AA guys that had to start over again when we came to AA after a long career with other failed airlines.

 

[Prog 2/2]

You are the one that said I got so much value for my money being a junior AA native. I just did not se it that way when i got hundreds of TWA on the list senior to me, then a furlough notice in the mail.

Nope. What I said was that junior natives would have been furloughed in far greater numbers without the TWA purchase.

You said yourself that you must have been too junior to realise the value of this, and you were absolutely right, you were.

You, specifically, were too junior to not get furloughed with/without TWA. But for many other junior natives, the value of the TWA acquisition was the furlough fodder of TWA names on the bottom of the list.

Twist and turn and play victim all the way, but not many AA pilots felt we lucked out with the TWA purchase. In fact many thought we would be better off in the long (and short) run without TWA.

No twisting or turning here, and certainly no mention of being victimised. I gave you a counter argument to what are accepted truths among many natives that have no basis in fact.

Your last sentence above illustrates my point perfectly.

Many think it; therefore it is true, right ?

I'm not asking you to proclaim that the TWA acquisition was the greatest thing since sliced bread. But among many at AA, TWA is blamed for everything from global warming to the falling dollar, and it gets tiresome hearing it.

 

[CitationLover]

Perhaps I am wrong, but I thought these guys then get 12 year Captains pay while flying F/O?
If that is correct, it is not a shabby deal compared to some of us native AA guys that had to start over again when we came to AA after a long career with other failed airlines.

I do not think they are paid CA pay. My friend, who has SLT CA 80 recall rights, said he was getting a 10% pay raise from Eagle. If a 10% pay raise from Eagle is 12yr CA pay on the 80, the APA has a lot of work to do this year.

 

[CitationLover]

I'm not asking you to proclaim that the TWA acquisition was the greatest thing since sliced bread. But among many at AA, TWA is blamed for everything from global warming to the falling dollar, and it gets tiresome hearing it.

Even though AA doesn't appreciate TWA airplanes (they still make special PA's at the gate at ORD if it's a TWA MD80 due to the smaller overhead luggage space), DAL and AAI do. I am sure Bob Crandall peed his pants when he heard Carty dumping the 717's and Arpey playing hardball with a lease company on 757's and losing out to DAL. I am sure the thought, "What are those f@#$ers doing to my airline I built?" ran through his head.