AA recalls starting to increase

[XTW]

Oct 3rd, 2007.



No need to use the BS card. Plenty of ex-TWA guys in my class, check the roster on AA pilots.

Some of them had Capt. re-instatement rights on the -80..

Lowest Capt seniority right now is # 8880.

Perhaps some of the guys in my class had previously deferred....Lots of gray hair among them.

3 or 4 of them came from Focus...Good timing.

The senior ex-TWA guy in the October 3 class was a previous deferral, but only from August. He is now #9509. The #8880 guy was in the first recall class back in January 2007. The gray hairs are probably because the ex-TWA guys in your class were hired in late 1988/early 1989. All of them have Captain reinstatement rights because they had flown Captain for about 3 years prior to being furloughed.


XTW

 

[pkober]

Remember we were "Aquired not hired".

TWA may not survived post 9-11, no one knows for sure. Just like AA may not survive long term. UAL has appeared on deaths door. NWA and DAL have filed bankruptcy. No one in this industry has a crystal ball. If you say you do then your full of shi+.

 

[Uniform Shop]

Remember that TWA went out of business before AA bought them, so it wasn’t really a merger in the normal sense.

If TWA went of business then I guess DAL, NWA, USAir and UAL did too. There is a big difference between entering bankruptcy and going out of business.

 

[highflying]

can anyone ever ask AA question without it becoming an AA TWA argument?

 

[CitationLover]

Two great airlines.....
one great future.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YayAONi07s0

 

[XTW]

can anyone ever ask AA question without it becoming an AA TWA argument?

I have not argued at all. I am stating facts with no emotion at all.


XTW

 

[G4G5]

your facts are wrong. are you confusing recall rights with actual recall positions?

no twa'ers are coming off the street to the left seat. in fact, one recently told me a check airman told him before a session, "That Supplement CC has really worked out for you."

To which his bewildered sim partner (a BOS based 767 FO upgrading on the 80 - a 90 hire) defended with, "Yeah, 4 1/2 years on the street worked out real well for him."

Some people still have blinders on in the Luftwaffe.

This is wrong.

The fact is, as mentioned above that one former TWA pilot did come back from furlough and directly into the left seat of an MD80 in STL. This can be verified by anyone with access to the APA web site. It is listed under the Benefits/Sevices, then the Furlough section, then Recall Stats.

 

[G4G5]

If TWA went of business then I guess DAL, NWA, USAir and UAL did too. There is a big difference between entering bankruptcy and going out of business.

You need to get your history straight. What were Bill Compton's comments? I don't recall any of the CEO's from the airlines you mentioned giving up and telling the employees that their "were no white knights'.

FYI another FACT is that in 1999 all of the airlines that you mentioned were profitable and in 1999 (a great year for airline profits) TWA was the ONLY major airline that was not profitable.

Ican killed TWA, not AA. It's sad but true

9/11 caused the BK's that you mentioned.



TWA CEO Bill Compton's Senate Testimony for those who want the truth:
http://judiciary.senate.gov/oldsite/te020701wc.htm

"We can no longer afford to operate, let alone sustain these advances. TWA's Many Successes Have Not Been Enough."

Finally, this winter we ran out of time. By January 10, 2001, TWA had cash on hand of only $20 million and needed more than that amount just to make it through the next day. With our cash reserves nearly depleted and a major financial commitment to lenders coming due, our backs were squarely against the wall. "

"Only American Airlines saw fit this winter to come forward with a proposal that was not merely an offer to cherry-pick a prized asset here or there."

 

[FreightGod]

No one in this industry has a crystal ball. If you say you do then your full of shi+.

Not sure anybody has claimed a crystal ball except those who said TWA would/could have made it on their own after 9/11 without AA..If so you are probably right.

You got 4 years on the street because of two things, both completely unrelated to TWA.

The first was 9/11, and the second was because you were on the bottom of the seniority list.

How hard is it for you to accept that what happened to you would have happened with/without the acquisition of TWA?

Huh?

You are the one that said I got so much value for my money being a junior AA native. I just did not se it that way when i got hundreds of TWA on the list senior to me, then a furlough notice in the mail.

Twist and turn and play victim all the way, but not many AA pilots felt we lucked out with the TWA purchase. In fact many thought we would be better off in the long (and short) run without TWA.

Whatever, wishful thinking won't change reality, this was Carty's idea and shortly after, he was carted off the property. Thanks Uncle Don..

 

[stlflyguy]

TWA CEO Bill Compton's Senate Testimony for those who want the truth:
http://judiciary.senate.gov/oldsite/te020701wc.htm

"We can no longer afford to operate, let alone sustain these advances. TWA's Many Successes Have Not Been Enough."

Finally, this winter we ran out of time. By January 10, 2001, TWA had cash on hand of only $20 million and needed more than that amount just to make it through the next day. With our cash reserves nearly depleted and a major financial commitment to lenders coming due, our backs were squarely against the wall. "

"Only American Airlines saw fit this winter to come forward with a proposal that was not merely an offer to cherry-pick a prized asset here or there."

Yeah, let's play "Your CEO said this..." I guess they ALL tell the truth, don't they G4G5? What were Carty's statements about "fair and equitable?"

stlflyguy

 

[xtwapilot]

As Paul Harvey would say, "and now for the rest of the story." The reason why TWA had $20 million cash on hand was because, TWA had a note due in Feb 2001, which in previous three 10Q was stated and not being an issue to refinance. It is also documented that the TWA bk was a condition of sale, TWA was not in Bk prior to the AA offer. Now, TWA needed to justify the reason for going into bk, and the only way to do that was to show a cash crunch. The way TWA went about doing that was to pay the note due in Feb, instead of refinancing it, and they paid several large accounts payable early. This created an artifical cash crunch and the justification for the bk. AA also had a poison pill in providing the DIP financing, which created the perfect storm.
Yes Compton was telling the truth when he said there was a cash crunch, what he didn't say was that the cash crunch was induced by TWA to justify the bk filing and ultimately to get rid of Karibu, and ensure that AA would be the only viable candidate for DIP financing because of a $50 million poison pill.
That is the rest of the story. The big problem with some AA types is that they want to justify the screwing of TWA pilots and the only thing they come up with is TWA would be out of business, or TWA was bk. But in the end if it makes some of them sleep better or look at themselves in the mirror with the straight face, then so be it. Most of us have moved on beyond Jan 10,2001. It's time for some AA types to do the same.

Xtwapilot

 

[G4G5]

Yeah, let's play "Your CEO said this..." I guess they ALL tell the truth, don't they G4G5? What were Carty's statements about "fair and equitable?"

stlflyguy

If you are trying to tell us that the CEO of a major US Corporation went to a Senate Hearing Investigation Hearing and purgered himself, then please provide the evidence.

Look I am not trying to drudge up old dirt, just provide the truth.

Yes one pilot did come back from furlough directly to the left seat, I provided the evidence. If you want to read the direct testimony from the TWA CEOto Capital Hill (aka the truth) , I provided the web site.

 

[CitationLover]

This is wrong.

The fact is, as mentioned above that one former TWA pilot did come back from furlough and directly into the left seat of an MD80 in STL. This can be verified by anyone with access to the APA web site. It is listed under the Benefits/Sevices, then the Furlough section, then Recall Stats.

he was speaking in the PRESENT tense and not the PAST tense. NO ONE is coming off the street now into the left seat, he made it sound like lots of people are (notice the says pilots).

Moreover, furloughed former TWA pilots are coming off the street straight to the left seat of an AA Super 80. This is from a 17 year AA native FO that is still throwing gear.

 

[TWA Dude]

If you are trying to tell us that the CEO of a major US Corporation went to a Senate Hearing Investigation Hearing and purgered himself, then please provide the evidence.

No purjury, he was applying spin. AWA's Doug Parker did the same thing when he told a bunch of USAir guys that absent the merger AWA would've gone Chapter 11 six months down the road. It's an opinion, not a fact, since it deals with the future. For the closest thing to facts look at the SEC filings.

 

[pkober]

As Paul Harvey would say, "and now for the rest of the story." The reason why TWA had $20 million cash on hand was because, TWA had a note due in Feb 2001, which in previous three 10Q was stated and not being an issue to refinance. It is also documented that the TWA bk was a condition of sale, TWA was not in Bk prior to the AA offer. Now, TWA needed to justify the reason for going into bk, and the only way to do that was to show a cash crunch. The way TWA went about doing that was to pay the note due in Feb, instead of refinancing it, and they paid several large accounts payable early. This created an artifical cash crunch and the justification for the bk. AA also had a poison pill in providing the DIP financing, which created the perfect storm.
Yes Compton was telling the truth when he said there was a cash crunch, what he didn't say was that the cash crunch was induced by TWA to justify the bk filing and ultimately to get rid of Karibu, and ensure that AA would be the only viable candidate for DIP financing because of a $50 million poison pill.
That is the rest of the story. The big problem with some AA types is that they want to justify the screwing of TWA pilots and the only thing they come up with is TWA would be out of business, or TWA was bk. But in the end if it makes some of them sleep better or look at themselves in the mirror with the straight face, then so be it. Most of us have moved on beyond Jan 10,2001. It's time for some AA types to do the same.

Xtwapilot

Getting "screwed" is in the eye of the beholder. No AA guy will ever say they screwed us, just like no TWA pilot will ever say we got a good deal.

No one can't say that TWA would have folded after 9-11 just like in 1999 no one couldn't have possibly seen that UAL, DAL and NWA would file bankruptcy.

The fact is that any junior AA pilot within 1000-1200 numbers who can't aleast recognize that without the TWA purchase and staple they would have been on the street is just plain smoking crack. AA would have furloughed after 9-11 and the stapled TWA pilots took the brunt of those furloughs. Those are facts.

Complaining that you are still pulling gear after 17 years while fellow APA members (TWA or AA) are furloughed is childish whining. Get real. Many people are financially ruined by the furlough. These are your union brothers.