Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

AA Pilot Leader Wants America West Pilots in Seniority Talks - Article

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
Draginass said:
What will the east pilots do if they don't get DOH in the coming arbitration?

What will the west pilots do if the Nicolau list is not used?
Click to expand...


No matter what the outcome, all 3 sides will be bitching.

Hopefully there will be no legality technicality to hold things up.
 
general lee said:
you signed the agreement before going through arbitration. You agreed to nicolau before he started (he was one of your choices). Soooo, you put your chips down before you got your cards. I don't see your point that there was more to do afterwards. Sure, you needed to get a joint contract, but because your side disagreed with the sli award, your side made it more difficult to achieve that joint contract. You guys wanted the west to change the award, and they didn't have to, so your group put them in "purgatory" as punishment, keeping them out west, not allowing them to enjoy the upgrades out east, all because you had a majority by a small margin. tell me that isn't correct.


bye bye---genital lee
Click to expand...

that isn't correct
 
DCAA320 said:
that isn't correct
Click to expand...

Take your head out of Uranus, if you can. Notice you didn't (and can't) refute any of those points. You are a waste of time.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
The only thing the first panel of arbitrators will decide is IF the west gets a seat at the table to represent themselves not if the NIC must be used that's all. Only the final SLI panel would have any say regarding the use of NIC.
 
surfnfly said:
The only thing the first panel of arbitrators will decide is IF the west gets a seat at the table to represent themselves not if the NIC must be used that's all. Only the final SLI panel would have any say regarding the use of NIC.
Click to expand...

That's great, then it will be settled during the second one. Why would 6 total arbitrators rule against one of their peers (Nicolau himself)? That would weaken their own authority in future cases, allowing others to pull the same ridiculous stunt the Easties pulled. Can't wait to watch this one...


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
East pilots love to blame everyone but themselves for their poor choices, bet you they overplay this next arbitration hand again...
 
C'mon are they really that predictable? Folks with no short or long-term memory are bound to make the same mistakes over and over. That's all they can do.

Heck, turd there can't even remember why USAPA went to court.
 
General Lee said:
That really is horses%#t. What were those East guys smokin? Nicolau obviously didn't think way, and I doubt the other upcoming arbitrators will see it the East way either.


Bye Bye---General Lee
Click to expand...


Dunno, maybe they were smoking peters...Something you know a ton about.
 
The East should be worried. Why?

Jeff Freund is the West's lawyer.

Ask legacy United and Delta pilots about him.

Or better yet, ask the East pilots, CAL pilots, and Northwest pilots about him.
 
Last edited:
captainjack said:
The East should be worried. Why?

Jeff Freund is the West's lawyer.

Ask legacy United and Delta pilots about him.

Or better yet, ask the East pilots, CAL pilots, and Northwest pilots about him.
Click to expand...

The last the East pilots heard from Freund was at Wye River when he was working for the West. They fired him for telling them the truth.. that all the risk in the lawsuits was risk to the West.

Now that the West has lost every lawsuit like Freund told them they would, and now that the West ratified the MOU, and once the West signs the Protocol Agreement as a precondition to entering SLI Arbitration... then I'm sure Freund will be able to hit them a grand slam home run (the deck will be soooo stacked in his favor).

It won't be Nic. It won't be DOH. It will be slotting, with weighting toward those with wide bodies. It will be fair and equitable, and implemented (by law). We will all live happily ever after, except for those still clinging to lost legends and lotteries that never were.
 
Turtle21 said:
The last the East pilots heard from Freund was at Wye River when he was working for the West. They fired him for telling them the truth.. that all the risk in the lawsuits was risk to the West.

Now that the West has lost every lawsuit like Freund told them they would, and now that the West ratified the MOU, and once the West signs the Protocol Agreement as a precondition to entering SLI Arbitration... then I'm sure Freund will be able to hit them a grand slam home run (the deck will be soooo stacked in his favor).

It won't be Nic. It won't be DOH. It will be slotting, with weighting toward those with wide bodies. It will be fair and equitable, and implemented (by law). We will all live happily ever after, except for those still clinging to lost legends and lotteries that never were.
Click to expand...

Thanks Nostradamus! There will be 6 new arbitrators who probably all know Nicolau personally. They also know that the East shenanigans undermined their own authority (giving a "binding award"). Yeah, they won't be thinking about any of that...... Nope..... This is gonna be good.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
General Lee said:
Thanks Nostradamus! There will be 6 new arbitrators who probably all know Nicolau personally. They also know that the East shenanigans undermined their own authority (giving a "binding award"). Yeah, they won't be thinking about any of that...... Nope..... This is gonna be good.



Bye Bye---General Lee
Click to expand...

Status quo. :)


Even if the arbitrators have more affinity for fellow arbitrators rather than the contracts... and it comes back as the Nic, we still won't believe you are a pilot. :D
 
General Lee said:
Thanks Nostradamus! There will be 6 new arbitrators who probably all know Nicolau personally. They also know that the East shenanigans undermined their own authority (giving a "binding award"). Yeah, they won't be thinking about any of that...... Nope..... This is gonna be good.



Bye Bye---General Lee
Click to expand...
You misspelled his name....it's nostradumbass. [emoji1]
 
Turtle21 said:
The last the East pilots heard from Freund was at Wye River when he was working for the West. They fired him for telling them the truth.. that all the risk in the lawsuits was risk to the West.



Now that the West has lost every lawsuit like Freund told them they would, and now that the West ratified the MOU, and once the West signs the Protocol Agreement as a precondition to entering SLI Arbitration... then I'm sure Freund will be able to hit them a grand slam home run (the deck will be soooo stacked in his favor).



It won't be Nic. It won't be DOH. It will be slotting, with weighting toward those with wide bodies. It will be fair and equitable, and implemented (by law). We will all live happily ever after, except for those still clinging to lost legends and lotteries that never were.
Click to expand...


West pilots NEVER fired Freund. His firm doesn't do DFR cases such as the lawyers we used.

Freund was always in the background. He very effectively argued for the Delta, United, and AWA pilots. He was also used at SW.

He is now resuming his role now that the case of USAPA herpes has been killed off.

The NIC is alive and well. The sooner you realize this the less disappointed you will be at the end of this process.
 
Bringupthebird said:
Gotta admit it, Turtle called this one.

The Nic will be slotted in with the APA list with a WB carve out for APA.

He gets it!!!!
Click to expand...


Sorry to break it to you bird

No way a 90+ percentile PHX Captain is going to get slotted next to a 50+ percentile CLT Captain and then both are going to get slotted into the AA list at around 50 percentile on combined list.

That would be SUPER seniority for a LAWA pilot over both LUS and LAA - even with wide body protection

Even if PHX gets a seat at table ( and that is a BIG IF ) - no way is your new and updated "NIC " going to make it. And I like the way it shows "OLD NIC #" and "NEW NIC #" and difference - guess where the difference came from - all EAST retirements .

And the new list will include 1800 EAST pilots in their rightful place on the combined list / slotted in with LAWA, LUS, and LAA. Not at the bottom like you think will give you all SUPER SENIORITY.

I think you all are going to hurt yourselves big time by submitting that NEW NIC.

Good luck

Metrojet
 
Metrojet, go look up "Seniority" and then "Longevity" and then get back to us with your epiphany moment. Include a selfie for that priceless expression when it hits you.
 
Bringupthebird said:
Metrojet, go look up "Seniority" and then "Longevity" and then get back to us with your epiphany moment. Include a selfie for that priceless expression when it hits you.
Click to expand...


Your response just proves that your "New Nic" proposal for SLI has no basis , since rather than specifically explain why it should be used - you just throw out insults because you cannot defend it.

Typical West position. Let me explain it to you further - 4000+ East pilots don't accept it, what makes you think 8500+ APA pilots will think it is fair.

I think you guys should propose DOH (with full lists ) - merge with East list - and then the arbitrators will probably look more favorably on your minority group.

What have you got to loose? Being stuck in PHX for a few more years?

Good luck

Metrojet
 
Metrojet said:
Spaulding -



APA has offered to let an arbitrator decide if MB legislation allows it - if they say yes - they are in - if they say no - then no basis for DFR
Click to expand...


Totally not true. If this is coming from Szamanski and Wilder you are getting bad legal advice. The DFR liability is independent of this arbitration. The APA and the Company are fully aware of this.

Keep poking away.
 
captainjack said:
West pilots NEVER fired Freund. His firm doesn't do DFR cases such as the lawyers we used.

Freund was always in the background. He very effectively argued for the Delta, United, and AWA pilots. He was also used at SW.

He is now resuming his role now that the case of USAPA herpes has been killed off.

The NIC is alive and well. The sooner you realize this the less disappointed you will be at the end of this process.
Click to expand...

Ok, so Freund is a super hero. Ask Freund to explain contractual "nullity" and contractual "status quo" to you as defined in the MOU and Protocol Agreement. And while he is at it, ask him to show you one legal document that affirms the status quo includes anything besides the three lists in effect.

The west merger committee will be established pursuant to the Protocol Agreement and the arbitration board will decide a fair and equitable SLI of the contractual status quo. Whining about the status quo will not be smiled upon.
 
captainjack said:
Totally not true. If this is coming from Szamanski and Wilder you are getting bad legal advice. The DFR liability is independent of this arbitration. The APA and the Company are fully aware of this.

Keep poking away.
Click to expand...

The idea of a Nic DFR being successful are just laughable (it was already tried on the merits and lost). And that loss was before the protections and immunities that are stacked up a mile high in the MOU, the Protocol Agreement, the two arbitrations set forth, the upcoming JCBA, and above all the M/B legislation. The Nic is nothing but nostalgia now.
 
Turtle21 said:
The idea of a Nic DFR being successful are just laughable (it was already tried on the merits and lost). And that loss was before the protections and immunities that are stacked up a mile high in the MOU, the Protocol Agreement, the two arbitrations set forth, the upcoming JCBA, and above all the M/B legislation. The Nic is nothing but nostalgia now.
Click to expand...

You may want to wait until after the two arbitration panels to state that Turtle.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom