AA Pilot Leader Wants America West Pilots in Seniority Talks - Article

Heavy Set

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See article below.


American Pilot Leader: 'America West Pilots Should Join Seniority Talks'

Two unions and a series of federal judges have tried unsuccessfully to fix the problems unleashed by a controversial arbitrator?s pilot seniority ruling following the 2005 merger of America West and US Airways.

Now the Allied Pilots Association, which represents the 15,000 pilots at American Airlines, will have its turn.

The first step, said APA President Keith Wilson, is to give the America West pilots a seat at the table, allowing them to present a list and argue in its favor in seniority integration discussions.

We will make sure everybody gets a shot, Wilson said, in an interview. We have a duty of fair representation, to be sure all the members are equally represented. We will remain neutral in a lot of ways, but we will sure all members are represented in the arbitration process.

Wilson understands the difficulty of the eight-year battle over seniority integration at US Airways, and during an hour-long interview he scrupulously avoided providing any indication of his feelings on the controversial 2007 Nicolau seniority arbitration ruling, which has divided pilots ever since.

The flawed ruling, which resulted from binding arbitration, has never been implemented resulting in separate seniority lists within the pilot ranks at US Airways, nine years after the merger.

The arbitration was conducted under the aegis of the Air Line Pilots Association. Afterwards, US Airways pilots voted to leave ALPA and create the US Airline Pilots Association. America West pilots, who represented about a third of the pilot group, were dragged along.

The APA process will likely involve two arbitrations. In the first, three arbitrators will decide whether America West pilots should be involved in merger discussions. Wilson said he helps that process will be completed by the end of the year.

The second arbitration will proceed if, as seems likely, the pilot groups fail to develop a list in merger discussions. Wilson wants America West pilots involved in those discussions.

As a model for seniority integration, Wilson said he looks to the Delta/Northwest integration.

In that case, he said, the list was developed in such a way that ten years down the road it will be fair and equitable. He noted that pilots? career expectations were generally met. Now, he said, Delta is running on all cylinders. That is what we want to do.

Among the problems arbitrators confronted was that many senior Delta pilots retired before the bankruptcy, which ?put younger guys at Delta on a higher level, Wilson said. But the final list generally met the goal of satisfying pilots who had widebody expectations when they were hired.
It is the arbitrators, not pilot leaders, who make the final determinations, Wilson noted. But he said that what he wants, in the end, is a list that American pilots generally view as fair.

APA already has collected 3,400 applications from US Airways pilots, the vast majority of active pilots.

Wilson declined to comment specifically on the other major recent pilot seniority ruling, which followed the United/Continental Continental merger. In that case, arbitrators decided that a proposal from Continental pilots was overly ambitious and therefore generally accepted a proposal from United pilots leaving some pilots unhappy.

Some pilot sources say that in the American/US Airways seniority discussions, all three likely parties will take the lesson of the United/Continental case to mean they should seek moderate solutions.

That could help to provide arbitrators in the APA process with a situation where they can craft a broadly acceptable seniority list an outcome that so far has eluded everybody else.


Link below:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed...should-join-seniority-talks/?partner=yahootix
 
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johnsonrod

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I am not sure I trust the AA pilots who were so "generous" with the Reno Air and TWA pilots...
 
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St. Nic

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APA hates the Nic. They understand it was a flawed list and want to bury it deep in a hole. Nic is gone forever.
No lottery ticket for the America West pilots.
 

johnsonrod

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APA hates the Nic. They understand it was a flawed list and want to bury it deep in a hole. Nic is gone forever.
No lottery ticket for the America West pilots.

If they are included in the negotiations their situation will likely improve over the status quo. Everyone inherently knows that agreeing to having a binding arbitration process and then disagreeing with/nullifying the result just because you don't like that ruling is unfair...
 

sniper

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See article below.


American Pilot Leader: 'America West Pilots Should Join Seniority Talks'

Two unions and a series of federal judges have tried unsuccessfully to fix the problems unleashed by a controversial arbitrator?s pilot seniority ruling following the 2005 merger of America West and US Airways.

Now the Allied Pilots Association, which represents the 15,000 pilots at American Airlines, will have its turn.

The first step, said APA President Keith Wilson, is to give the America West pilots a seat at the table, allowing them to present a list and argue in its favor in seniority integration discussions.

We will make sure everybody gets a shot, Wilson said, in an interview. We have a duty of fair representation, to be sure all the members are equally represented. We will remain neutral in a lot of ways, but we will sure all members are represented in the arbitration process.

Wilson understands the difficulty of the eight-year battle over seniority integration at US Airways, and during an hour-long interview he scrupulously avoided providing any indication of his feelings on the controversial 2007 Nicolau seniority arbitration ruling, which has divided pilots ever since.

The flawed ruling, which resulted from binding arbitration, has never been implemented resulting in separate seniority lists within the pilot ranks at US Airways, nine years after the merger.

The arbitration was conducted under the aegis of the Air Line Pilots Association. Afterwards, US Airways pilots voted to leave ALPA and create the US Airline Pilots Association. America West pilots, who represented about a third of the pilot group, were dragged along.

The APA process will likely involve two arbitrations. In the first, three arbitrators will decide whether America West pilots should be involved in merger discussions. Wilson said he helps that process will be completed by the end of the year.

The second arbitration will proceed if, as seems likely, the pilot groups fail to develop a list in merger discussions. Wilson wants America West pilots involved in those discussions.

As a model for seniority integration, Wilson said he looks to the Delta/Northwest integration.

In that case, he said, the list was developed in such a way that ten years down the road it will be fair and equitable. He noted that pilots? career expectations were generally met. Now, he said, Delta is running on all cylinders. That is what we want to do.

Among the problems arbitrators confronted was that many senior Delta pilots retired before the bankruptcy, which ?put younger guys at Delta on a higher level, Wilson said. But the final list generally met the goal of satisfying pilots who had widebody expectations when they were hired.
It is the arbitrators, not pilot leaders, who make the final determinations, Wilson noted. But he said that what he wants, in the end, is a list that American pilots generally view as fair.

APA already has collected 3,400 applications from US Airways pilots, the vast majority of active pilots.

Wilson declined to comment specifically on the other major recent pilot seniority ruling, which followed the United/Continental Continental merger. In that case, arbitrators decided that a proposal from Continental pilots was overly ambitious and therefore generally accepted a proposal from United pilots leaving some pilots unhappy.

Some pilot sources say that in the American/US Airways seniority discussions, all three likely parties will take the lesson of the United/Continental case to mean they should seek moderate solutions.

That could help to provide arbitrators in the APA process with a situation where they can craft a broadly acceptable seniority list an outcome that so far has eluded everybody else.


Link below:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed...should-join-seniority-talks/?partner=yahootix







As it should be . USAPA was an abortion clinic
 

JetMonkey

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Ahh, Nicky. Time to check around your seat and grab your things... the east gravy train is approaching the station.
 

General Lee

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APA hates the Nic. They understand it was a flawed list and want to bury it deep in a hole. Nic is gone forever.
No lottery ticket for the America West pilots.

Oooohhhhh SNAP! This is gettin good! Looks like the APA Chairman wants them involved, something you said wouldn't happen. The first of many things you were and are wrong about. Fannnntastic.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 

Tail Gunner Joe

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It is the arbitrators, not pilot leaders, who make the final determinations, Wilson noted.

If this statement was true, then the Nic would have been implemented nine years ago.

Kieth Wilson better wake up and take notice that the USAPAs of this world can hold a pilot group hostage for going on nine years now.
 

Ocity

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The EASTHOLES are getting the Nic on turbo charged steroids this time around. They were the ones that wanted the do-over. Be careful what you wish for.
 

Turtle21

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If they are included in the negotiations their situation will likely improve over the status quo. Everyone inherently knows that agreeing to having a binding arbitration process and then disagreeing with/nullifying the result just because you don't like that ruling is unfair...


Frankly I don't mind if the West gets to participate in the SLI Arbitration pursuant to the Protocol Agreement. It is not an arbitration of past disputes.
 

SpauldingSmails

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I am not sure I trust the AA pilots who were so "generous" with the Reno Air and TWA pilots...

I agree.

You've got to read between the lines. This all revolves around attempting to cut-off a potential DFR down the road.

I don't believe for one second that the APA gives two hoots about how and where east or west USAir pilots are slotted relative to each other - only how AA pilots are slotted relative to an overall USAir group. APA doesn't care if their pilot touches an east or west pilot, so long as they're getting the better deal. Everyone will be represented at the table - however, in the event a group gets cornholed, they can't say they weren't given a voice.
 

ableone

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APA hates the Nic. They understand it was a flawed list and want to bury it deep in a hole. Nic is gone forever.
No lottery ticket for the America West pilots.

Actually it may be helpful if the Nic goes away. No reason for those 517 east pilots to populate the top of the combined list the way they do in the Nic.

The combined arbitration integration will probably be more favorable to the west pilots without the Nicolau list.
 

SpauldingSmails

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APA hates the Nic. They understand it was a flawed list and want to bury it deep in a hole. Nic is gone forever.
No lottery ticket for the America West pilots.

Is there a cogent, rational, reason why APA would "hate" a non-implemented ruling which they had nothing to do with? In my opinion, it's as irrational as saying APA "loves" the Nic award.

It would be like me saying, "I really hate that picture frame that my brother received for his birthday from my great uncle 8 years ago." It's a total non sequitur.

The fact that USAir pilots aren't coming to the table with any existing integration, not united as a group, really opens up the overall group for dividing and conquering. In fighting will be a distraction that APA will likely exploit.
 

St. Nic

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The EASTHOLES are getting the Nic on turbo charged steroids this time around. They were the ones that wanted the do-over. Be careful what you wish for.

Stupid westicle. Nic is dead. AoL is dead. The rats in PHX are going to take a hit for the greed. The Arbitrators and AA all know who the problem is. You westicles are done.
 

Turtle21

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Is there a cogent, rational, reason why APA would "hate" a non-implemented ruling which they had nothing to do with? In my opinion, it's as irrational as saying APA "loves" the Nic award.



It would be like me saying, "I really hate that picture frame that my brother received for his birthday from my great uncle 8 years ago." It's a total non sequitur.



The fact that USAir pilots aren't coming to the table with any existing integration, not united as a group, really opens up the overall group for dividing and conquering. In fighting will be a distraction that APA will likely exploit.


You have a point. It's not part of the status quo and is thus a non sequitur, regardless of who claims emotion over it.

At any rate it is virtually certain to come down to what three arbitrators say.

And everyone will be generally ok with the result, accept for those eager to use arbitration as a way to get payback for perceived past wrongs (whatever they may be, or whoever may have caused them).

The SLI arbitration is about status quo and fair and equitable moving forward.
 

IBNAV8R

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My prediction is that the Nic will stick and the whole of USAPA will be out-USAPA'd.
 

maru657

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I'm sure you can count on AA's pilots devotion to a fair and equitable merger. Unless you consider the TWA mess.
 
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