AA Pilot Leader Wants America West Pilots in Seniority Talks - Article

[Bringupthebird]

Metrojet, go look up "Seniority" and then "Longevity" and then get back to us with your epiphany moment. Include a selfie for that priceless expression when it hits you.

 

[captainjack]

Let Metrojet believe any fantasy he wants. Wilder is no match for Freund.

Maybe the East should hire Katz again. Oh wait...

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Even if PHX gets a seat at table ( and that is a BIG if...

I'd bet that if PHX doesn't get a seat at the table, they'd certainly have a "ripe" DFR for the picking.

 

[Metrojet]

Metrojet, go look up "Seniority" and then "Longevity" and then get back to us with your epiphany moment. Include a selfie for that priceless expression when it hits you.

Your response just proves that your "New Nic" proposal for SLI has no basis , since rather than specifically explain why it should be used - you just throw out insults because you cannot defend it.

Typical West position. Let me explain it to you further - 4000+ East pilots don't accept it, what makes you think 8500+ APA pilots will think it is fair.

I think you guys should propose DOH (with full lists ) - merge with East list - and then the arbitrators will probably look more favorably on your minority group.

What have you got to loose? Being stuck in PHX for a few more years?

Good luck

Metrojet

 

[Metrojet]

I'd bet that if PHX doesn't get a seat at the table, they'd certainly have a "ripe" DFR for the picking.

Spaulding -

APA has offered to let an arbitrator decide if MB legislation allows it - if they say yes - they are in - if they say no - then no basis for DFR

 

[captainjack]

Spaulding -



APA has offered to let an arbitrator decide if MB legislation allows it - if they say yes - they are in - if they say no - then no basis for DFR

Totally not true. If this is coming from Szamanski and Wilder you are getting bad legal advice. The DFR liability is independent of this arbitration. The APA and the Company are fully aware of this.

Keep poking away.

 

[Turtle21]

West pilots NEVER fired Freund. His firm doesn't do DFR cases such as the lawyers we used.

Freund was always in the background. He very effectively argued for the Delta, United, and AWA pilots. He was also used at SW.

He is now resuming his role now that the case of USAPA herpes has been killed off.

The NIC is alive and well. The sooner you realize this the less disappointed you will be at the end of this process.

Ok, so Freund is a super hero. Ask Freund to explain contractual "nullity" and contractual "status quo" to you as defined in the MOU and Protocol Agreement. And while he is at it, ask him to show you one legal document that affirms the status quo includes anything besides the three lists in effect.

The west merger committee will be established pursuant to the Protocol Agreement and the arbitration board will decide a fair and equitable SLI of the contractual status quo. Whining about the status quo will not be smiled upon.

 

[Turtle21]

Totally not true. If this is coming from Szamanski and Wilder you are getting bad legal advice. The DFR liability is independent of this arbitration. The APA and the Company are fully aware of this.

Keep poking away.

The idea of a Nic DFR being successful are just laughable (it was already tried on the merits and lost). And that loss was before the protections and immunities that are stacked up a mile high in the MOU, the Protocol Agreement, the two arbitrations set forth, the upcoming JCBA, and above all the M/B legislation. The Nic is nothing but nostalgia now.

 

[General Lee]

The idea of a Nic DFR being successful are just laughable (it was already tried on the merits and lost). And that loss was before the protections and immunities that are stacked up a mile high in the MOU, the Protocol Agreement, the two arbitrations set forth, the upcoming JCBA, and above all the M/B legislation. The Nic is nothing but nostalgia now.

You may want to wait until after the two arbitration panels to state that Turtle.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Ocity]

Spaulding -

APA has offered to let an arbitrator decide if MB legislation allows it - if they say yes - they are in - if they say no - then no basis for DFR

Wrong Again!

 

[Bringupthebird]

The idea of a Nic DFR being successful are just laughable (it was already tried on the merits and lost).

How many times do you figure you can pawn off that as the truth? So far you've had no takers (which is ironic since when Bradford told your flock that lie, you all believed him and were taken - for million$$).

I would hope there were enough pilots on the east with enough insight to not have made any major purchases or life change events based on their temporary upgrades. While there will be no bump and flush, future base realignments will hit those who upgraded out of order the hardest.

 

[Turtle21]

How many times do you figure you can pawn off that as the truth? So far you've had no takers (which is ironic since when Bradford told your flock that lie, you all believed him and were taken - for million$$).

I would hope there were enough pilots on the east with enough insight to not have made any major purchases or life change events based on their temporary upgrades. While there will be no bump and flush, future base realignments will hit those who upgraded out of order the hardest.

What are babbling about now? The west paid for all our legal bills and lost over and over... For almost a decade now.

 

[captainjack]

Ok, so Freund is a super hero. Ask Freund to explain contractual "nullity" and contractual "status quo" to you as defined in the MOU and Protocol Agreement. And while he is at it, ask him to show you one legal document that affirms the status quo includes anything besides the three lists in effect.



The west merger committee will be established pursuant to the Protocol Agreement and the arbitration board will decide a fair and equitable SLI of the contractual status quo. Whining about the status quo will not be smiled upon.

I wouldn't call Freund a super hero but he is one of the most learned and respected labor attorney's in the business. You are reading too much into the PA language. The Nicolau Award will be introduced and Freund will make very compelling and reasoned arguments as to why it should be used as the basis of integration. Arbitrations aren't court procedings, they are looser and trust me, the Nic will be in your future.

The East has won to this date. With the help of management and a mob union, they have stolen every upgrade and new aircraft on property. But that doesn't mean the West will just roll over and take the fleecing. The West will fight and this is a long term battle that will eventually see the Nic integrated with the AA list.

it will be fair as you stated and will preserve the pre-merger career expectations of the combined US Airways pilots (via the Nic) and the AA pilots.

 

[pave driver]

Why do America West pilots want the NIC award so much? They've already won the lottery and the megamillion lotto. Their airline was not one to aspire to. Is there something to be gained by the NIC award? The SLI will NOT include the NIC award. Period. Also, the SLI will not be solely by DOH. Let's all move on now. No lotto ticket for anyone! Watch the APA and how they operate. Crandall was correct in stating that if the majority is perceived to be harmed in an SLI, it just will NOT happen. If the majority is seemingly harmed, it will just NOT go through to fruition. It just won't happen. Stop feeding the lawyers!

 

[Bringupthebird]

Why do America West pilots want the NIC award so much?

Do you cast a shadow? Do you even comprehend "right" and "wrong" ?

An independent arbitrator came up with a reasonably fair integration and it should be implemented as the starting point for any integration that follows. That the east pilots were able to avoid its implementation is a mute point. How they see a future career that is anything but ostracizing and isolation is the real question. I think many new hires will spend their time either coming up with a convincing story that frames them with clean hands in the matter (impossible) or considering a job change to United or Delta ( highly recommended).

 

[captainjack]

Their airline was not one to aspire to. Is there something to be gained by the NIC award? The SLI will NOT include the NIC award. Period!

You got me there. I would much rather have been working for a liquidating US Airways in 2003.

Trust me, the Nic isn't going anywhere.

 

[pave driver]

Do you cast a shadow? Do you even comprehend "right" and "wrong" ?

An independent arbitrator came up with a reasonably fair integration and it should be implemented as the starting point for any integration that follows. That the east pilots were able to avoid its implementation is a mute point. How they see a future career that is anything but ostracizing and isolation is the real question. I think many new hires will spend their time either coming up with a convincing story that frames them with clean hands in the matter (impossible) or considering a job change to United or Delta ( highly recommended).

The courts are there to serve a purpose. If every perceived right and wrong were black and white there would be no need for the courts.

Ostracising and isolation is one of many factors of the majority perception of being harmed by the NIC award.

Many newhires at US Airways can go to any of the big three with effort in my opinion. The newhires of the past at America West, well...NO. America West was NEVER a "final destination" for any pilot just as a going to a commuter was never a "final goal" of a new aspiring pilot.

There will be no NIC award in the American SLI. It will NOT happen. The courts have spoken and there is a reason the courts exist. Avoiding the arbitration is precisely the point. It harmed the majority and will not be implemented. The West pilots had no career expectations of flying a 777-300, nor an A330 in their career. This WILL be addressed in the SLI outcome. There will be no windfall for ANY group. It has been through the courts several times. Stop feeding the lawyers! They are taking advantage of the America West pilots' weakness.

 

[pave driver]

You got me there. I would much rather have been working for a liquidating US Airways in 2003.

Trust me, the Nic isn't going anywhere.

It is transcript FACT from Parker that America West would be soon bankrupt and did NOT have the sole capability of raising funds to merge and would likely liquidate.

Let us not forget the past... both airlines gained from the merge!

Smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors.

 

[Turtle21]

I wouldn't call Freund a super hero but he is one of the most learned and respected labor attorney's in the business. You are reading too much into the PA language. The Nicolau Award will be introduced and Freund will make very compelling and reasoned arguments as to why it should be used as the basis of integration. Arbitrations aren't court procedings, they are looser and trust me, the Nic will be in your future.

The East has won to this date. With the help of management and a mob union, they have stolen every upgrade and new aircraft on property. But that doesn't mean the West will just roll over and take the fleecing. The West will fight and this is a long term battle that will eventually see the Nic integrated with the AA list.

it will be fair as you stated and will preserve the pre-merger career expectations of the combined US Airways pilots (via the Nic) and the AA pilots.

You are doing a lot of whining and making accusations. Those accusations were put on trial and found without merit. Such arguments are emotional and overreaching.

Ask Freund to show you one legal document that affirms the status quo includes anything besides the three lists in effect. Just show us one document. Just one.

If the West gets a merger committee they will sign agreement to the status quo pursuant to the protocol agreement, guaranteed.

 

[Jim]

Actually the accusations were found to have merit at trial, they were just later found not to be "ripe". If anything but the Nic is used, they will be ripe.