AirTran pilots will own the SW upgrades

[freightdogfred]

Well, there you go.

That's a great plan you got there, Clyde: act like a petulant child for the rest of your career, regardless of how it affects you and your bottom line. How old are you again?

Bubba

Well, it was said many times, and quoted to us many times by you guys- It ain't about the money

 

[Clyde Frog]

What makes you think I'm still at AirTran? Maybe I already crossed over and took my bad attitude with me?

 

[redflyer65]

I wish you could too. But you did gain something. All SW pilots did. And as much as wavey likes to claim he got nuttin outta this deal, he did. More seniority, plain and simple. I keep hearing on here that "GK's not done yet" on acquiring another carrier. I doubt the next group's gonna want to sit down and eat pizza after watching the way this went down. My .02 cents anyways

FD,

I gained LESS than 2% global seniority which doesn't help me at all in my base, and I'm supposed to be sorry for you after you gained...

1. Stability.
2. Better pay.
3. Profit sharing.
4. and Bring your Longevity.

You won't find much sympathy on this side, not that you're looking for it. Just sayin'.

But you and Frog can keep on keepin' on at FI, but you'll get pretty much the same here as you will on the line.

And as SWA Bubba said, if you want to be pissed the rest of your career then have at it. That will equate to approximately .01% by the time the vote is cast. Most Trannies that have come over have been excited about the huge bump in pay and all the rest. I can understand about losing your seat and possibly having to commute, but in the end I didn't buy you. Neither did the guy in the left seat. Stay pissed if it makes you feel better.


It is what you make it......or not.

Cheers.

 

[freightdogfred]

FD,

I gained LESS than 2% global seniority which doesn't help me at all in my base, and I'm supposed to be sorry for you after you gained...

1. Stability.
2. Better pay.
3. Profit sharing.
4. and Bring your Longevity.

You won't find much sympathy on this side, not that you're looking for it. Just sayin'.

But you and Frog can keep on keepin' on at FI, but you'll get pretty much the same here as you will on the line.

And as SWA Bubba said, if you want to be pissed the rest of your career then have at it. That will equate to approximately .01% by the time the vote is cast. Most Trannies that have come over have been excited about the huge bump in pay and all the rest. I can understand about losing your seat and possibly having to commute, but in the end I didn't buy you. Neither did the guy in the left seat. Stay pissed if it makes you feel better.


It is what you make it......or not.

Cheers.

Ha Ha dude I'm not looking for sympathy. Hell i'm not even complaining. I bear no grudges, no ill will, I have not hate whatsoever. I'm all for SW being the king of the hill, I buy stock every 2 weeks. SW is surely more stable than Airtran, but that "better pay as an WN F/O" has been pretty much debunked, at least for line-holding Captains. Profit Sharing is surely better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, but me keeping my longevity as a benefit, really? I guess a few of the SWAPA meet an greets for the transition classes have been met with less than stellar attendance or so I've heard. It is what you make of it...or not

 

[redflyer65]

Nice post FD. I hope you find happiness over here. I'm sorry for those that don't. Honestly.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Hey, Clyde. Make sure you keep it up while in training. I'd like to see it at at least 6. Shouldn't be too tough for you to get the boot with your great attitude and maturity.

It's kind of ironic, but now SWAPA is fighting for several of their jobs back (I don't think the other ones could care less). It's kind of messy to fire somebody for not embracing the culture while creating an environment conducive to failure, which 99.5% so far have overcome grinning and bearing it. Cooperate and graduate, most of us have been doing it for decades. That smile is not "I'm happy to be here", I either just passed gas or I'm done and on my way home to see the wife and kids. My pay raise won't come until I'm a line holding captain, in the meantime, I'll enjoy the days off I want and getting the best vacation slots, that's the extent of my lottery winnings.

 

[BR715]

Speaking of enjoying the days off. That is about all you can enjoy being a senior line holder. Who builds these lines anyway around here? What a joke of a scheduling department. No wide range of hours in the packet. Everybody gets the same? Common man

 

[Ty Webb]

It would be nice to see some commutable lines built. They would go to appreciative commuters, leaving more high-yielding lines for folks that live in base. Win-win is good.

 

[bluesideup1]

Ha Ha dude I'm not looking for sympathy. Hell i'm not even complaining. I bear no grudges, no ill will, I have not hate whatsoever. I'm all for SW being the king of the hill, I buy stock every 2 weeks. SW is surely more stable than Airtran, but that "better pay as an WN F/O" has been pretty much debunked, at least for line-holding Captains. Profit Sharing is surely better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, but me keeping my longevity as a benefit, really? I guess a few of the SWAPA meet an greets for the transition classes have been met with less than stellar attendance or so I've heard. It is what you make of it...or not

You say the increase in pay was debunked? By who? I can do simple math and it shows me that when an Airtran F.O. comes over they automatically get a 30% raise. That is over half of your pilots getting an instant raise. Now those poor souls that lost their seat all about 250 of them at this point will make close to what they did flying captain and have much better seniority at the same time. Now when those Airtran captains upgrade like 70% of them will be able to do once we hit Jan 1 2015 they will get an instant 35% increase in pay. The only ones on the Airtran list that will not recieve large pay raises when they come over are the 200 captains that will not be senior enough to hold SW Captain after Jan 2015. Mind you they are still making A LOT more than they were before they were bought.

So let me get this straight. You are complaining that around 200 pilots didn't get a huge raise when they come over to SW like the 800 FO's did and the 700 captains that will after Jan 2015?

Your right you should of screwed the 1,500 other pilots that will get large raises in the next year to save those poor 200 junior captains that will now make nearly as much as they did before and get Xmas, Thanksgiving, sons/daughters birthdays, summer vacations and have an increase of 7 more bases to chose from as senior FO's.

Remember how much of a raise the SW pilot got from your contact after you were bought? Remember all the benefits that your pilot group brought over with it to enhance the SW pilots careers? Me neither.

 

[freightdogfred]

You say the increase in pay was debunked? By who? I can do simple math and it shows me that when an Airtran F.O. comes over they automatically get a 30% raise. That is over half of your pilots getting an instant raise. Now those poor souls that lost their seat all about 250 of them at this point will make close to what they did flying captain and have much better seniority at the same time. Now when those Airtran captains upgrade like 70% of them will be able to do once we hit Jan 1 2015 they will get an instant 35% increase in pay. The only ones on the Airtran list that will not recieve large pay raises when they come over are the 200 captains that will not be senior enough to hold SW Captain after Jan 2015. Mind you they are still making A LOT more than they were before they were bought.

So let me get this straight. You are complaining that around 200 pilots didn't get a huge raise when they come over to SW like the 800 FO's did and the 700 captains that will after Jan 2015?

Your right you should of screwed the 1,500 other pilots that will get large raises in the next year to save those poor 200 junior captains that will now make nearly as much as they did before and get Xmas, Thanksgiving, sons/daughters birthdays, summer vacations and have an increase of 7 more bases to chose from as senior FO's.

Remember how much of a raise the SW pilot got from your contact after you were bought? Remember all the benefits that your pilot group brought over with it to enhance the SW pilots careers? Me neither.

Yes dear, you are right, once again. (Vacant smile, as I stare out the window)

 

[-9Capt]

You say the increase in pay was debunked? By who? I can do simple math and it shows me that when an Airtran F.O. comes over they automatically get a 30% raise. That is over half of your pilots getting an instant raise. Now those poor souls that lost their seat all about 250 of them at this point will make close to what they did flying captain and have much better seniority at the same time. Now when those Airtran captains upgrade like 70% of them will be able to do once we hit Jan 1 2015 they will get an instant 35% increase in pay. The only ones on the Airtran list that will not recieve large pay raises when they come over are the 200 captains that will not be senior enough to hold SW Captain after Jan 2015. Mind you they are still making A LOT more than they were before they were bought.

So let me get this straight. You are complaining that around 200 pilots didn't get a huge raise when they come over to SW like the 800 FO's did and the 700 captains that will after Jan 2015?

Your right you should of screwed the 1,500 other pilots that will get large raises in the next year to save those poor 200 junior captains that will now make nearly as much as they did before and get Xmas, Thanksgiving, sons/daughters birthdays, summer vacations and have an increase of 7 more bases to chose from as senior FO's.

Remember how much of a raise the SW pilot got from your contact after you were bought? Remember all the benefits that your pilot group brought over with it to enhance the SW pilots careers? Me neither.

These numbers are total BS. You make it sound like all our capts will upgrade in 2015. We have A LOT of mid seniority capts that will retire as FO's.

If we got such a good deal, why did management feel it necessary to throw threats and ultimatums around to keep this from arbitration? That's what has AT pilots pissed. Threats, seniority loss, downgrades, pay loss, domicile loss, reneging on the transition bid...the list goes on.

The only thing I got out of this deal so far is a cheesy medallion and a rubber duck. Awesome.

 

[redflyer65]

The only thing I got out of this deal so far is a cheesy medallion and a rubber duck. Awesome.

Same here..

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

Clyde,
At least you have a union that is looking you in the face not your wallet in your back pocket, I see ALPA has gone out of the frame and now its all SWAPA's fault, strange how that goes, you guys actually made money by joining SWAPA V ALPA

 

[humveedriver]

You say the increase in pay was debunked? By who? I can do simple math and it shows me that when an Airtran F.O. comes over they automatically get a 30% raise. That is over half of your pilots getting an instant raise. Now those poor souls that lost their seat all about 250 of them at this point will make close to what they did flying captain and have much better seniority at the same time. Now when those Airtran captains upgrade like 70% of them will be able to do once we hit Jan 1 2015 they will get an instant 35% increase in pay. The only ones on the Airtran list that will not recieve large pay raises when they come over are the 200 captains that will not be senior enough to hold SW Captain after Jan 2015. Mind you they are still making A LOT more than they were before they were bought.

So let me get this straight. You are complaining that around 200 pilots didn't get a huge raise when they come over to SW like the 800 FO's did and the 700 captains that will after Jan 2015?

Your right you should of screwed the 1,500 other pilots that will get large raises in the next year to save those poor 200 junior captains that will now make nearly as much as they did before and get Xmas, Thanksgiving, sons/daughters birthdays, summer vacations and have an increase of 7 more bases to chose from as senior FO's.

Remember how much of a raise the SW pilot got from your contact after you were bought? Remember all the benefits that your pilot group brought over with it to enhance the SW pilots careers? Me neither.

Do you even work for SWA? How does 144 = 700?

 

[Ty Webb]

Do you even work for SWA? How does 144 = 700?

I know . . . definitely not a math major. :laugh:

Actually, there were 900 AirTran Captains. I was 550/900. I may get a chance to get my seat back in 2016-2017. Until then, it is a definite pay loss.

 

[redflyer65]

Ty,

You were making 152/hr when Southwest bought you guys. I know we've been over this before, so I'm not looking for a rehash the why/where, and I understand you've been making 179/hr since your new contract. But here is the timeline you guys are bellyaching about...

Hourly rates for a AirTran CA with 12+ years

Sept. 2010 - 152/hr (Original AAI rate)
Oct. 2010 - 179/hr (new contract rate)
Jan. 2015 - 153/hr (new SW rate upon being in the right seat)

Sometime in 2016, re-upgrading to 218/hr at SW CA rates.

An approximate loss for you of 25 thousand dollars for ONE year, and after that....earning money that you would have never seen at AirTran. You'd make up your 'loss' in less than six months. And I'm being rather generous with the comparison.

Combine that with every single AirTran FO making 30% more, but I guess that's just not enough..

 

[SWA Bubba]

It would be nice to see some commutable lines built. They would go to appreciative commuters, leaving more high-yielding lines for folks that live in base. Win-win is good.

Unfortunately, you aren't going to find many lines that are unproductive enough to be considered truly commutable. There are given pairings that are commutable (PMs-turned-AMs), but no pure lines like you describe. That's because the average line density has to be so much to make our leaner manning work, especially in the summer. Then you get fairly dense pairings, plus the company additionally counts on a percentage of pilots being greedy enough to work even more to cover uncovered flying. That's part of what makes our model successful--fewer pilots needed for a given amount of flying.

It's somewhat easier in the winter, when flying schedule is lighter, and the average density is less. But then we have a rig for minimum density (pay) in a month, so if they built really light pairings for commuters, they'd be paying a rig to the minimum anyway. They keep the average within so much tolerance to minimize rig costs for whatever amount of flying is scheduled for the month.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

Speaking of enjoying the days off. That is about all you can enjoy being a senior line holder. Who builds these lines anyway around here? What a joke of a scheduling department. No wide range of hours in the packet. Everybody gets the same? Common man

See my response to Ty above. That's why there isn't a great "wide range" in hours in the bid packet: it would cost the company more for the same amount of flying.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

These numbers are total BS. You make it sound like all our capts will upgrade in 2015. We have A LOT of mid seniority capts that will retire as FO's.

If we got such a good deal, why did management feel it necessary to throw threats and ultimatums around to keep this from arbitration? That's what has AT pilots pissed. Threats, seniority loss, downgrades, pay loss, domicile loss, reneging on the transition bid...the list goes on.

The only thing I got out of this deal so far is a cheesy medallion and a rubber duck. Awesome.

Don't forget the cookie. Those cookies were awesome. I had two.

Bubba

 

[Phlintstone]

You guys would be miserable no matter. Blame the mirror, not us.

Said ad nauseum, so who cares at this point-
But I promise you- this career can and has "screwed" people in real terms, and not just subjective whiny b/tch terms.
I was supposed to be a millionaire legacy pilot, remember?
Thousands have been furloughed for most of 10 years, and you guys go to air tran, a small growing carrier, and expect never to be bought or no hard times to fall on you?
Grow up. Good thing I've been online and the VAST majority of air tran pilots are more than happy to be here and real cool. The problem is your expectations. You complain to me and I will be first in line to tell you that I got absolutely nothing out of this deal except diluted seniority. Argue that all you want, but it's true. And I'm over it. So if my junior FO group is over it, you guys can really sh^t the f^ck up about not being slotted in next to pilots who've flown here for a decade before your airline flew it's first flight.
Unrealistic a$$holes make up the air tran FI crowd.
You can poison your own well all you want...it's you it affects

There you go again - wavey the drama queen. Only you would consider folks who say they are tired and just don't care anymore as miserable a-holes. Later loser.

Phred