AirTran pilots will own the SW upgrades

[redflyer65]

Ty,

You were making 152/hr when Southwest bought you guys. I know we've been over this before, so I'm not looking for a rehash the why/where, and I understand you've been making 179/hr since your new contract. But here is the timeline you guys are bellyaching about...

Hourly rates for a AirTran CA with 12+ years

Sept. 2010 - 152/hr (Original AAI rate)
Oct. 2010 - 179/hr (new contract rate)
Jan. 2015 - 153/hr (new SW rate upon being in the right seat)

Sometime in 2016, re-upgrading to 218/hr at SW CA rates.

An approximate loss for you of 25 thousand dollars for ONE year, and after that....earning money that you would have never seen at AirTran. You'd make up your 'loss' in less than six months. And I'm being rather generous with the comparison.

Combine that with every single AirTran FO making 30% more, but I guess that's just not enough..

 

[SWA Bubba]

It would be nice to see some commutable lines built. They would go to appreciative commuters, leaving more high-yielding lines for folks that live in base. Win-win is good.

Unfortunately, you aren't going to find many lines that are unproductive enough to be considered truly commutable. There are given pairings that are commutable (PMs-turned-AMs), but no pure lines like you describe. That's because the average line density has to be so much to make our leaner manning work, especially in the summer. Then you get fairly dense pairings, plus the company additionally counts on a percentage of pilots being greedy enough to work even more to cover uncovered flying. That's part of what makes our model successful--fewer pilots needed for a given amount of flying.

It's somewhat easier in the winter, when flying schedule is lighter, and the average density is less. But then we have a rig for minimum density (pay) in a month, so if they built really light pairings for commuters, they'd be paying a rig to the minimum anyway. They keep the average within so much tolerance to minimize rig costs for whatever amount of flying is scheduled for the month.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

Speaking of enjoying the days off. That is about all you can enjoy being a senior line holder. Who builds these lines anyway around here? What a joke of a scheduling department. No wide range of hours in the packet. Everybody gets the same? Common man

See my response to Ty above. That's why there isn't a great "wide range" in hours in the bid packet: it would cost the company more for the same amount of flying.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

These numbers are total BS. You make it sound like all our capts will upgrade in 2015. We have A LOT of mid seniority capts that will retire as FO's.

If we got such a good deal, why did management feel it necessary to throw threats and ultimatums around to keep this from arbitration? That's what has AT pilots pissed. Threats, seniority loss, downgrades, pay loss, domicile loss, reneging on the transition bid...the list goes on.

The only thing I got out of this deal so far is a cheesy medallion and a rubber duck. Awesome.

Don't forget the cookie. Those cookies were awesome. I had two.

Bubba

 

[Phlintstone]

You guys would be miserable no matter. Blame the mirror, not us.

Said ad nauseum, so who cares at this point-
But I promise you- this career can and has "screwed" people in real terms, and not just subjective whiny b/tch terms.
I was supposed to be a millionaire legacy pilot, remember?
Thousands have been furloughed for most of 10 years, and you guys go to air tran, a small growing carrier, and expect never to be bought or no hard times to fall on you?
Grow up. Good thing I've been online and the VAST majority of air tran pilots are more than happy to be here and real cool. The problem is your expectations. You complain to me and I will be first in line to tell you that I got absolutely nothing out of this deal except diluted seniority. Argue that all you want, but it's true. And I'm over it. So if my junior FO group is over it, you guys can really sh^t the f^ck up about not being slotted in next to pilots who've flown here for a decade before your airline flew it's first flight.
Unrealistic a$$holes make up the air tran FI crowd.
You can poison your own well all you want...it's you it affects

There you go again - wavey the drama queen. Only you would consider folks who say they are tired and just don't care anymore as miserable a-holes. Later loser.

Phred

 

[waveflyer]

Later man, have a good day

 

[slaquer5]

Don't forget the cookie. Those cookies were awesome. I had two.

Bubba

What cookie ?

I got a coin
A lanyard
A rubber duck


Did PCL take everyone's cookies.

 

[redflyer65]

He's at the Waffle House waiting for the $200 to come thru tomorrow night. Maybe he'll splurge for the Steak and Eggs.

 

[bluesideup1]

These numbers are total BS. You make it sound like all our capts will upgrade in 2015. We have A LOT of mid seniority capts that will retire as FO's.

If we got such a good deal, why did management feel it necessary to throw threats and ultimatums around to keep this from arbitration? That's what has AT pilots pissed. Threats, seniority loss, downgrades, pay loss, domicile loss, reneging on the transition bid...the list goes on.

The only thing I got out of this deal so far is a cheesy medallion and a rubber duck. Awesome.

Which numbers are BS? I never said all of your captains will upgrade in 2015. I specifically said they will have the chance to upgrade as there are only about 200 captains on your side that are junior to our most junior captain. It will take another year or two to get back down to that seniority but the percentages are still the same.

50% OF YOUR GROUP GOT AN IMMEDIATE 30+% RAISE COMING OVER!
40% OF YOUR GROUP WILL GET ANOTHER 35% RAISE IN THE NEXT 2 YEARS!

Leaving 10% of your group that got downgraded and will not make captain in the next 2 years. These 10 percent are the only ones you seem to talk about. The sad part is most of them will upgrade and get that 35% raise on top of the other raises that the AT group got since they were bought.

I am sorry every one of you didn't get huge raises when you came over to the SW side but even then I suspect you would still have your PLC complaining it wasn't paid in gold bullion and they didn't provide a wheel barrow to take it to the bank.

Now lets get back to what most SW guys got out of the deal. For me at least 450 guys in front of me that weren't there before with every year my relative seniority diminishing to the point where I am at an over 50% loss by the time I retire. No massive pay raise, no extra stock options just a loss of seniority over time with no candy coating to help swallow it.

These are the facts please refute them and show me how I am wrong.

 

[redflyer65]

Same here Blueside.

I don't upgrade ONE day earlier with this deal and didn't get a 30% pay increase or a new profit sharing plan.

I got a One Luv medallion, that's about it.

 

[PCL_128]

Dear God, what a frickin' mess Gary created.

What you SWAPA guys may not realize, since it seems that each side of the partition gets fed different information, is that these upgrades early next year for AirTran pilots mean that a bunch of AirTran 717 captains are going to be getting what is being called "captain continuation pay" (essentially pay protection) while more senior AirTran 737 captains are not going to be getting that pay protection. This is being done because SWAPA insisted on that interpretation. As a result, there is a big chunk of AirTran 737 captains already preparing their DFR lawsuit. So instead of having the unity that Howard and the guy with the Vader mask for an avatar were begging for earlier in this thread, you're instead going to have pilots fighting pilots in the middle of Section 6 talks.

SWAPA needs to get their act together in a hurry and find out a way to unify the group. And insisting upon bogus interpretations that ignore seniority and screw over FAT pilots that they already represent is not the way to do it.

 

[freightdogfred]

Same here Blueside.

I don't upgrade ONE day earlier with this deal and didn't get a 30% pay increase or a new profit sharing plan.

I got a One Luv medallion, that's about it.

It is mathematically impossible for your relative seniority to increase and not have the ability to upgrade sooner

 

[redflyer65]

You need to get a new calculator then. I gain less than 3% globally up front and it fades to zero because of the younger age of the Trannies put in front of me. Big gains indeed.

I still have the coin though!

 

[PropPiedmont]

It is mathematically impossible for your relative seniority to increase and not have the ability to upgrade sooner

It is when a large number of senior pilots to you, senior enough to be captains, are transitioned over as FOs.

 

[-9Capt]

. For me at least 450 guys in front of me that weren't there before with every year my relative seniority diminishing to the point where I am at an over 50% loss by the time I retire.

Wow. If I were you I would have been screaming for relative seniority. According to your math, you would have made out much better

As for the back and forth about what we got vs what you got...that's been beaten to death.

The issue most of have is with the way SW and Steve Chase elected to conduct themselves. They lied, cheated, threatened and ultimately stole our capts seats and seniority. If it was done fair and square, nobody would still be talking about it, however by playing in the gutter they lost a lot of respect from 25% of their newest employees. Will that be an issue for management and SWAPA in the future? Time will tell.