FO/Flex how would you vote to integrate??

[BlueNose]

Loss of breakfast is hardly a union rallying cry. It's irksome. It's also not how you go about challenging the industry leader.

I predict you'll notice a gradual but steady accumulation of such small changes over the next couple of years - changes intended to provide some savings to the company or make some manager's job easier, but which in small ways erode employee morale and customer service. The pace is intended to be slow enough to boil a frog, but those of you who care about providing top service will notice and be frustrated because you know it doesn't have to be this way, that most of the savings are illusory in the long term, and that industry-leading service cultures aren't built like this.

Many will hardly notice, however, and will slog along in their everyday routines just doing their jobs with a slowly-growing sense of mistrust, frustration, and finally resignation. I think that's what you'll find with most FO crews outside the IBT adherents. KR may not have brought about the unionization of this group, but he's been back as the leader for 6+ years now. If he truly managed by trust, treating employees as the foundation of a service company, with an eye to long-term relationships and providing top customer service - his words published in his own book - then the union would already have been decertified. That he has not regained the trust of a majority, all of which hired on in his first term as leader, and with a truckers union as their only alternative, should speak volumes as to what you can expect. Sorry.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

I predict you'll notice a gradual but steady accumulation of such small changes over the next couple of years - changes intended to provide some savings to the company or make some manager's job easier, but which in small ways erode employee morale and customer service. The pace is intended to be slow enough to boil a frog, but those of you who care about providing top service will notice and be frustrated because you know it doesn't have to be this way, that most of the savings are illusory in the long term, and that industry-leading service cultures aren't built like this.

Many will hardly notice, however, and will slog along in their everyday routines just doing their jobs with a slowly-growing sense of mistrust, frustration, and finally resignation. I think that's what you'll find with most FO crews outside the IBT adherents. KR may not have brought about the unionization of this group, but he's been back as the leader for 6+ years now. If he truly managed by trust, treating employees as the foundation of a service company, with an eye to long-term relationships and providing top customer service - his words published in his own book - then the union would already have been decertified. That he has not regained the trust of a majority, all of which hired on in his first term as leader, and with a truckers union as their only alternative, should speak volumes as to what you can expect. Sorry.

So what you Re saying is that if we vote in the IBT we will get to keep our remaining free breakfasts, hotel points and other perks because those are part of the CBA?

If so, can you please point to that part because I looked it over and couldn't find it.

 

[BlueNose]

So what you Re saying is that if we vote in the IBT we will get to keep our remaining free breakfasts, hotel points and other perks because those are part of the CBA?

If so, can you please point to that part because I looked it over and couldn't find it.

I said that where, exactly? Did you ever think that there might be a perspective to this situation beyond a strictly pro- or anti-union argument? Careful, you're looking a lot like the one-trick pony that the pro-union posters are accusing you of being. I'm sure KR will take good care of you. Keep up the fight, and be sure to check back in a few years and let us know how it works out for you.

 

[shanes123]

TWA my point about the union protecting people like you has nothing to do with your difference of opinion. It's you only caring about your individual situation and not your fellow pilots you wouldn't sacrifice a thing for the majority of the group. Your like a spoiled selfish 6 year old. And my comment about union protecting you can be compared with a defense attorney defending a pedophile. You know the guys a real scumbag but he still has to fight to defend the sick pig

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

TWA my point about the union protecting people like you has nothing to do with your difference of opinion. It's you only caring about your individual situation and not your fellow pilots you wouldn't sacrifice a thing for the majority of the group. Your like a spoiled selfish 6 year old. And my comment about union protecting you can be compared with a defense attorney defending a pedophile. You know the guys a real scumbag but he still has to fight to defend the sick pig

And this knowledge that I only care about my individual situation and not my fellow pilots come from where?

Notice that you are now no longer claiming you know me personally. So, since this has been proven to be a lie it really speaks to the credibility of anything else you have have or will say on here.

Oh, and where have I demonstrated that I wouldn't sacrifice a thing for my fellow pilots? You are once again making vague and baseless accusations because you want to discredit me.

 

[shanes123]

I do know you. Just cause you claim you don't know or remember me doesn't mean I don't know you and your enough discredit to yourself I actually don't have to do anything. Your post make it very clear that the only priority in your life is yourself

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Shanes,
I think you exposed TWA for what he is. His pay for his constant dribble is some kind of priveledge for him as an individual. And if he has any say about it, he will be the keeper of "The List".
How do you think he has so much time to post?

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

I do know you. Just cause you claim you don't know or remember me doesn't mean I don't know you and your enough discredit to yourself I actually don't have to do anything. Your post make it very clear that the only priority in your life is yourself

Dude I would remember your last name. It isn't that common.

You have been called out (by yourself).

The game is over.

The game of you saying you know me ended when you outed yourself.

The only thing my posts show is my dislike for the IBT. You can spin that anyway you like, but my posts are on here for others to reference.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Shanes,
I think you exposed TWA for what he is. His pay for his constant dribble is some kind of priveledge for him as an individual. And if he has any say about it, he will be the keeper of "The List".
How do you think he has so much time to post?

Are you now going to also claim you know who I am?

You just can't imagine that someone would have a differing opinion than you unless they were getting spoon fed it from a union busting law firm or getting paid to do it.

My opinions on here are my own. There are lots of FJ pilots on here that share my views as you can see from the other posts.

 

[doh]

Dude I would remember your last name. It isn't that common.

You have been called out (by yourself).

The game is over.

The game of you saying you know me ended when you outed yourself.

The only thing my posts show is my dislike for the IBT. You can spin that anyway you like, but my posts are on here for others to reference.

Not quite. You've said nasty things about FO pilots as a group and individuals. And then you've claimed to speak for the rest of us as well. You have made FJ pilots look bad hearted. And you do not speak for me when you speak with that voice.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Not quite. You've said nasty things about FO pilots as a group and individuals. And then you've claimed to speak for the rest of us as well. You have made FJ pilots look bad hearted. And you do not speak for me when you speak with that voice.

As a whole I think the FO pilots are a good group. I don't believe I have ever said anything different.

I have stated again and again that I don't speak for all of the FJ pilots.

The only individual FO pilots I have been unkind to are the ones on here that have attacked me from the beginning. They don't like my views and will do anything they can to discredit and silence me.

Once again, I do NOT think they represent the majority of FO pilots which is what gives me hope for the future of OneSky.

 

[The Architect]

Majority

As a whole I think the FO pilots are a good group. I don't believe I have ever said anything different.

I have stated again and again that I don't speak for all of the FJ pilots.

The only individual FO pilots I have been unkind to are the ones on here that have attacked me from the beginning. They don't like my views and will do anything they can to discredit and silence me.

Once again, I do NOT think they represent the majority of FO pilots which is what gives me hope for the future of OneSky.

So, employees, and in this case pilots, have a right to choose.

And if the MAJORITY wants union representation, then that's what should happen.

If the MAJORITY doesn't want union representation, then that's what should happen.

Either way, if and/or when such a determination has to be put to a vote, the MAJORITY wins.

That should be acceptable.

Agree?

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

So, employees, and in this case pilots, have a right to choose.

And if the MAJORITY wants union representation, then that's what should happen.

If the MAJORITY doesn't want union representation, then that's what should happen.

Either way, if and/or when such a determination has to be put to a vote, the MAJORITY wins.

That should be acceptable.

Agree?

If the NMB rules single carrier there will be a vote.

Whatever the majority vote is will determine if the total group has union representation or not and if so who the union is that represents the group.

I am unsure as to why you are asking me this. I feel it has been stated numerous times.

So yes, pilots have a right to choose. If they didn't there would be no need for a vote.

 

[The Architect]

Confirmation

If the NMB rules single carrier there will be a vote.

Whatever the majority vote is will determine if the total group has union representation or not and if so who the union is that represents the group.

I am unsure as to why you are asking me this. I feel it has been stated numerous times.

So yes, pilots have a right to choose. If they didn't there would be no need for a vote.

There has been discussion about the union "being forced" on Flexjet pilots. If the majority wants union representation, well, would YOU feel that the union was forced on you?

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

There has been discussion about the union "being forced" on Flexjet pilots. If the majority wants union representation, well, would YOU feel that the union was forced on you?

If all of your furloughed pilots get to vote (that depends on their current job status per the NMB) then every FJ pilot could vote no and still have the union represent us. The NMB representation manual does state that furloughed pilots that are regularly working in another craft or class from the one they are furloughed are not eligible to vote. It also states that only furloughed pilots that have a reasonable expectation of returning to work have the right to vote.

I would asume the company will challenge most/all of the furloughed pilots voting rights based on one of these two criteria.

In the case where every FJ pilot would vote no and still be represented by the IBT I would feel it is being forced upon us.

Would you not agree. We got our vote, but they didn't matter.

We might as well not have voted.