FO/Flex how would you vote to integrate??

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

You have zero faith. Some of us are trying to improve things around here. Seams like you don't have much more to contribute than your negative attitude.

I have watched the track record of the IBT in the fractionals.

Netjets - dropped the IBT for an in house union
Citation Shares - slowly winding down
Avantair - in the process of voting in the IBT

I understand that all of these were not the IBTs fault, but the IBT sure doesn't seem to bring stability to fractional companies.

 

[Fresh Air]

If all of your furloughed pilots get to vote you have a larger group.

If your group isn't as divided as it appears you could force it on us.

Numbers don't lie.......they are accurate.

So, if a vote happens and the union is voted out will you squeal because your non-union agenda has been FORCED on us FO crews? I thought not. It's only an outrage if your preferred side loses. Democracy cuts both ways.

For the record, I also hope the two pilot groups are never merged. In a merger some folks always get hosed in the seniority integration, no matter how fair they try to do it. The bitterness never goes away, because seniority is everything to a pilot. Here's hoping things stay the way they are.

 

[slowtation capt]

I have watched the track record of the IBT in the fractionals.

Netjets - dropped the IBT for an in house union
Citation Shares - slowly winding down
Avantair - in the process of voting in the IBT

I understand that all of these were not the IBTs fault, but the IBT sure doesn't seem to bring stability to fractional companies.

Hmmmm, didn't the IBT get NetJets the contract that in turn got you your pay that you currently have?
After that they decided they were big enough to self support an in-house and keep all their dues to their own.

 

[jetwash]

I misspoke. Your current contract wouldn't be forced on us, just your next one if the IBT is voted for. I know we would be involved in the negotiations, but I have zero faith that your next contract would be a vast improvement over your current contract.

If the next contract of the combined group is not to your liking then you vote NO and tell the negotiators you want more.

I can tell you that no flight options pilots that I know of are going to accept anything less in pay and benefits then what you have right now. So your worries of taking a pay cut in the next contract are misplaced. That is unless you and other Flex pilots vote to accept a paycut which I don't think will happen.

That is the best part of the CBA, you get a vote in the decision.

 

[slowtation capt]

Your current contract wouldn't be forced on us,

I am going to go ahead and say that you are going to find a way to argue this from the "contract" that KR gave you guys.

"if another crewmember does not sign a Crewmember Employment Agreement their seniority will not be protected which may positively impact your seniority."

forced
f?rst/
adjective
adjective: forced

1. obtained or imposed by coercion or physical power
   
   
   
   

co?er?cion
kōˈərZHən,-SHən/
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions

1. the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats - " does not sign; their seniority will not be protected"
   
   
   
   
   

 

[993_Pilot]

...I have zero faith that your next contract would be a vast improvement over your current contract.

You have no faith in a contract negotiated with management that you can have input and vote on, and yet you have full faith in the benevolence of the very same management team for your individual "contract" going forward?... Sounds rational to me.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

I am going to go ahead and say that you are going to find a way to argue this from the "contract" that KR gave you guys.

"if another crewmember does not sign a Crewmember Employment Agreement their seniority will not be protected which may positively impact your seniority."

forced
f?rst/
adjective
adjective: forced

1. obtained or imposed by coercion or physical power
   
   
   
   

co?er?cion
kōˈərZHən,-SHən/
noun
noun: coercion; plural noun: coercions

1. the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats - " does not sign; their seniority will not be protected"
   
   
   
   
   

Agreement

1.the act of agreeing or of coming to a mutual arrangement.
2.the state of being in accord.
3.an arrangement that is accepted by all parties to a transaction.
4.a contract or other document delineating such an arrangement.
5.unanimity of opinion; harmony in feeling: agreement among the members of the faculty.

Contract

1.an agreement between two or more parties for the doing or not doing of something specified.
2.an agreement enforceable by law.
3.the written form of such an agreement.
4.the division of law dealing with contracts.
5.Also called contract bridge. a variety of bridge in which the side that wins the bid can earn toward game only that number of tricks named in the contract, additional points being credited above the line. Compare auction bridge.

We were being employed by a new company.

Did you not have to sign some sort of agreement or contract when you were hired at FO. I have at every other aviation company I have worked for. It spells out what they expect from you and what you can expect from them.

We could have chosen not to agree to it and left FJ. Funny part is, it was just a written agreement signed by two parties (aka a contract) that put into writing all of the things that we already had in various other places. It was signed by each individual crewmember and the president.

 

[slowtation capt]

Agreement

1.the act of agreeing or of coming to a mutual arrangement.
2.the state of being in accord.
3.an arrangement that is accepted by all parties to a transaction.
4.a contract or other document delineating such an arrangement.
5.unanimity of opinion; harmony in feeling: agreement among the members of the faculty.

Contract

1.an agreement between two or more parties for the doing or not doing of something specified.
2.an agreement enforceable by law.
3.the written form of such an agreement.
4.the division of law dealing with contracts.
5.Also called contract bridge. a variety of bridge in which the side that wins the bid can earn toward game only that number of tricks named in the contract, additional points being credited above the line. Compare auction bridge.

We were being employed by a new company.

Did you not have to sign some sort of agreement or contract when you were hired at FO. I have at every other aviation company I have worked for. It spells out what they expect from you and what you can expect from them.

We could have chosen not to agree to it and left FJ. Funny part is, it was just a written agreement signed by two parties (aka a contract) that put into writing all of the things that we already had in various other places. It was signed by each individual crewmember and the president.

No I didn't sign anything when I was hired at Flops, never was required. KR didn't require it, back then not signing an agreement was part of his "management by trust".

 

[slowtation capt]

2.an agreement enforceable by law.

Which you will have to pay half of the fees if you determine the company violates your "agreement"

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Sign it or it may POSITIVELY impact your seniority? Freudian slip there really means NEGATIVELY.

And how much input did you have prior to the final draft? My guess is zero.