FO/Flex how would you vote to integrate??

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Along with Flight Options Holdings I, Inc.

I believe we were acquired by DAC.

 

[Club ORD FO]

t a change of heart, I have accepted the fact that KR wants single, single is where this operation is going to be headed. My thought is that the Union can be the di*k everyone wants them to be, or just work with the company to accomplish something that in inevitable.

KR wants single because he hopes it will lead to the union being voted out. Why are you guys giving him that chance? KR may want the behind the scenes operations combined, but he has not told us that he wants the pilot groups merged. We have been told that that does not have to happen. Maybe we will know more after the next meeting in a few days

 

[slowtation capt]

I'd say the union is being the big bad bully by asking for single carrier. Nobody at flex wants single carrier. nooooobody. You can only get away with it because you have more pilots.

Ask yourself this;

Why did KR buy FlexJet and not tell anyone of us until it was released in the news?

Why did KR not go to the Union before buying FlexJet with a proposed LOA on merging the companies?

Why did KR give the Union a proposed LOA with very few days to decide to accept an LOA that would put Citation Air pilots out of a job, and Flops take their airplanes?

Why has the company been crying about how the Union didn't sign the LOA, when we would have only gotten 15 or so airplanes, but KR gained how much with FlexJet?

Why if in KR's email to us, he said that being a lawyer himself, that there is always "grey" areas, and he didn't understand why the Union was being a di*k towards him?

Why didn't KR just buy the assets of Citation Air and not care what the Union had to say?


Because it was all about the #'s.

If KR brought the Citation Air pilots over then that would have made the #'s that would guarantee when Flops and FlexJet are merged that the Union stayed.

Our Union pilots + Citation Air pilots would have certainly outnumbered you guys when it came to a vote.

KR also wanted to cause a rift among our pilots, in saying that he was trying to be the hero and bring XX airplanes over with no pilots, so the furloughs would be brought back, but the big bad Union said NO!

Remember the Citation Air scam went down before FlexJet was announced. KR was closing on FlexJet and needed to secure the Union signing off on throwing the Citation Air pilots to the street so he would have the hope of you guys being his winning no vote against the Union when it's merged.

 

[slowtation capt]

I believe we were acquired by DAC.

Correct, Directional Aviation Capital acquired FlexJet

Here is how KR plays some of his games

this is part of the structure from our contract

WHEREAS, Directional owns a controlling interest in Flight Options Holdings I, Inc.

WHEREAS, Holdings I owns and controls Flight Options Holdings II, Inc. (hereafter referred to as "Holdings II"), which, in turn, owns and controls Flight Options;

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Correct, Directional Aviation Capital acquired FlexJet

Here is how KR plays some of his games

this is part of the structure from our contract

WHEREAS, Directional owns a controlling interest in Flight Options Holdings I, Inc.

WHEREAS, Holdings I owns and controls Flight Options Holdings II, Inc. (hereafter referred to as "Holdings II"), which, in turn, owns and controls Flight Options;

I understand all of that, but your contract doesn't address merging of lists unless the company acquired is owned by the company.

The company is only defined as Flight Options LLC or Flight Options Holdings I.

That part of your contract doesn't apply in this case since were were to purchased by either of those entities.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Your source? Jackson Lewis.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Your source? Jackson Lewis.

Source, your contract.

I am actually flattered that you think a lawyer is telling me what to say.

Aparently I must sound smarter than I think.

And I just had to do a web search. I figure the law firm name you were saying was a joke or from a movie. There actually is a Jackson Lewis. That is kinda funny.

 

[The Architect]

Merge is Covered

I understand all of that, but your contract doesn't address merging of lists unless the company acquired is owned by the company.

The company is only defined as Flight Options LLC or Flight Options Holdings I.

That part of your contract doesn't apply in this case since were were to purchased by either of those entities.

The Flight Options Pilots CBA Section 1.5(c) is applicable.

The associated Parent Letters also apply.

Note that while the assumption and/or statement that DAC acquired Flexjet may be accurate, any company to which DAC is parent could have acquired Flexjet. In other words, if Flight Options Holdings I acquired Flexjet, for practical conversation, one can say DAC acquired Flexjet since they are the parent.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

The Flight Options Pilots CBA Section 1.5(c) is applicable.

The associated Parent Letters also apply.

Note that while the assumption and/or statement that DAC acquired Flexjet may be accurate, any company to which DAC is parent could have acquired Flexjet. In other words, if Flight Options Holdings I acquired Flexjet, for practical conversation, one can say DAC acquired Flexjet since they are the parent.

I understand that, but it was actually DAC not one of the companies it owns that purchased FJ. Hence 1.5(c) is not applicable because we did not become employees of the "company" as defined in your contract.

I am really glad you guys convinced me to download your contract. I suggest all FJ pilots do it. Since it is on a public site I may just have to upload it to Yammer for everyone to become educated so when you guys corner us on the road we can accurately discuss your contract.

 

[slowtation capt]

I am really glad you guys convinced me to download your contract. I suggest all FJ pilots do it. Since it is on a public site I may just have to upload it to Yammer for everyone to become educated so when you guys corner us on the road we can accurately discuss your contract.

Please do, let every FlexJet pilot see it, read it, and ask questions about it.
Please do remember that it is a 1st contract. If you see things that need to be improved and believe me there are things that need improved, bring it up, negotiations can start again in about 6 months.

But always remember, it is a 1st contract, one that got nowhere under the reins of Scheringa for 2+ years, and then even 2+ years when KR came back and publicly stated it was his priority to get us a contract right away. KR played his games and dragged it out also.

If you can find a company that got an industry leading out of the world hit a homer run inside the ballpark 1st contract, let me know.

 

[BE40Driver]

TWA, you are employees of the company NOW. That is how DW is now CEO and JW is VP of operations of both Flex and FO. I can look you up on my company BB in the company employee list. As an FO pilot I can pull any Flex pilots email. EMPLOYEES Brother!

 

[The Architect]

Try Again

I understand that, but it was actually DAC not one of the companies it owns that purchased FJ. Hence 1.5(c) is not applicable because we did not become employees of the "company" as defined in your contract.

I am really glad you guys convinced me to download your contract. I suggest all FJ pilots do it. Since it is on a public site I may just have to upload it to Yammer for everyone to become educated so when you guys corner us on the road we can accurately discuss your contract.

Let me try this again.

DAC announced that they acquired Flexjet. That does not mean that DAC directly acquired Flexjet. One of it's holdings companies, subsidiaries or affiliates could have acquired Flexjet. DAC would still be able to state that they (DAC) acquired Flexjet.

Since fence negotiations are ongoing and none of the parties are disputing the applicability of the appropriate CBA sections; the logical conclusion is one of the above scenarios occurred.

All things set aside, the Directional Capital LOA states in part:

2.[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]If Directional maintains or acquires a controlling interest in an air carrier that performs fractional or JetPASS card holder flying of the type covered by the Flight Options/IBT CBA, the acquired air carrier shall be consolidated utilizing the procedures for Successor Transactions set forth in Section 1.5 of the Flight Options/IBT CBA.
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[BornAgainPagan]

When your group doesn't have the stones to unionize, then it's your problem. Just sayin'.

Signed,
Peanut Gallery

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

They claim to be cattle but are only sheep.

 

[luckydog]

They claim to be cattle but are only sheep.

That statement just makes me maaaaaaaad.
We must unionize just to prove we have stones, more like rocks for brains.

You guys should get an early start spinning what KR is going to announce today. I have no idea what the recorded remarks will say but I'm sure there will be gains and losses for both groups.

It should be clear by now that "most" of the FJ pilots aren't interested in what the IBT has to offer now. You should sit back and enjoy your view from the moral high ground you seem to think you hold.

The games at the new DAC are only beginning, let's see how this plays out before we panic. The only thing I'm certain of is that things are going to change.

 

[warlord19]

Uh Oh. The goobers have run out of ammo and resorting to name-calling again. Sure wants me to sign up.
Just saying.
WL

 

[slowtation capt]

Here's how communications work at Flops. You all have all ready known that DW is chief, we never received an communication about it.
However today a new FOM is released, and in the FOM is shows DW as CEO.

That's how they do things here at Flops, no communication from the higher ups.

 

[The Architect]

Credibility

Uh Oh. The goobers have run out of ammo and resorting to name-calling again. Sure wants me to sign up.
Just saying.
WL

You love the word "goober."

Talk about "name-calling."

It effects credibility.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Here's how communications work at Flops. You all have all ready known that DW is chief, we never received an communication about it.
However today a new FOM is released, and in the FOM is shows DW as CEO.

That's how they do things here at Flops, no communication from the higher ups.

Did you ever ask one of your managers like I suggested?

Seriously, I hope communication will improve under DW.

 

[BE40Driver]

The managers in the office are more clueless than we are! They are always asking us what we've heard!

 

[slowtation capt]

Did you ever ask one of your managers like I suggested?

Seriously, I hope communication will improve under DW.

Yes, multiple peope, got the "You guys know more than us" quote

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Yes, multiple peope, got the "You guys know more than us" quote

That sucks.

I really do hope that your communication will improve under the new leadership.

You shouldn't have to find things like this out on FI. This is not meant to be ugly, I am being 100% serious.

Did you guys get the audio recording of the quarterly update from KR today?

Not sure if they were identical,but would love t hear what you guys got.

 

[Pervis]

The managers in the office are more clueless than we are! They are always asking us what we've heard!

No, they are fishing to see what rumors are sticking to the wall.

 

[slowtation capt]

That sucks.

I really do hope that your communication will improve under the new leadership.

You shouldn't have to find things like this out on FI. This is not meant to be ugly, I am being 100% serious.

Did you guys get the audio recording of the quarterly update from KR today?

Not sure if they were identical,but would love t hear what you guys got.

I was gonna try to attach the audio file, but it seems I can not.

 

[FR8DOG777]

You've got to be the most idiotic person I've ever debated. Who could possibly ever take you serious? Especially after what you said you'd like to do to DW on a couch in Dallas? Everyone remember that comment? I have no connections to Canada and would be just as happy if I never went to Montreal again and I assure you that I've never kissed anyone's posterior to get where I'm at. And who would I be sucking up to on here anyway??? I ragged on your routinely incoherent posts because it just illustrated your ignorance and you never seem to let me down with each post. I actually look forward to meeting you guys one day and debating face to face as I've done three times in the past couple of weeks. One being one of your union reps and another little short feller who can't wait to get his hands on a CL300. Both had the talking points down but the little guy wasn't prepared for any further debate.

You seriously need some help V1. So you still think you got the tiger by the tail and in control of your future as a fractional pilot? Guess what I married and am monogamous for life. You took it bait, hook, line, and sinker defending your princess though. Had to laugh about that one. Coincidentally if you fly Ricci why don't you ask him why his beloved wife is no longer involved in the business? My read on you, a 35 year old know it all flying a 350. Nothing can get in your way of achieving or sustaining aviator greatness lol. I just hope the powers that be negotiate at least a 2 year fence and run your ass ragged with your highly dependable equipment. Because Ricci never sells contracts he can't support. Your a fool, along with the other dozen fools constantly logged on here. Keep it up and retire me early persuading me to go make some real change flying heavies overseas while you destroy what 10-15k professional pilots have been establishing here. I hope you didn't break ground on your new pool at your Mcmansion in Addison.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

FR8,
Wasn't it KR's wife that was getting our hotel points?

 

[V1 Rotate]

You seriously need some help V1. So you still think you got the tiger by the tail and in control of your future as a fractional pilot? Guess what I married and am monogamous for life. You took it bait, hook, line, and sinker defending your princess though. Had to laugh about that one. Coincidentally if you fly Ricci why don't you ask him why his beloved wife is no longer involved in the business? My read on you, a 35 year old know it all flying a 350. Nothing can get in your way of achieving or sustaining aviator greatness lol. I just hope the powers that be negotiate at least a 2 year fence and run your ass ragged with your highly dependable equipment. Because Ricci never sells contracts he can't support. Your a fool, along with the other dozen fools constantly logged on here. Keep it up and retire me early persuading me to go make some real change flying heavies overseas while you destroy what 10-15k professional pilots have been establishing here. I hope you didn't break ground on your new pool at your Mcmansion in Addison.

I wish you were correct on the age guess and you're way off on the equipment. I'm sure you're married and have a great relationship but that doesn't mean that I took any bait that you dangled out there. The fact is that you got all wrapped up in your hatred for me and TWA that you threw a ridiculous comment out there and now you're trying to walk it back.

If you promise to go overseas and never post here again I'll gladly buy your one way ticket to some sandbox hellhole. Just tell me when. And also, I don't live in Dallas or Addison, not even Texas, but nice try again. My home is FAR from a mansion and we have a very modest above ground pool. You're a pitiful soul who thinks I want to destroy what you've built. But I'm curious...what have you contributed so mightily to our industry? And Btw, have you gotten wind to some of the increases to our compensation yesterday? Not much, but what did you get???

Anyway, good luck to you and your ilk and may we never speak to one another again.

 

[slowtation capt]

And Btw, have you gotten wind to some of the increases to our compensation yesterday? Not much, but what did you get???

Do tell, what did you guys get?

Also what did KR talk about on yabbadabbado? Since we don't have access

 

[el raton]

Do tell, what did you guys get?

Also what did KR talk about on yabbadabbado? Since we don't have access

Really, yammer is for posting birthdays and ataboys and not much else.

Although after the new pay increase mommas gonna get a new pair of shoes!!!

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Do tell, what did you guys get?

Also what did KR talk about on yabbadabbado? Since we don't have access

Biggest things I got from the last two days:

No plan to merge the pilot groups (everyone should be happy)

Plans to keep two separate offices

BE400 gone this year from FO - still adding Phenom 300s

Potential for increase in number of Globals - product has been well received by owners

FJ adding up to 6 Cl-300/350 this year - hiring to start late summer to fall

Will still offer preferential interviews to furloughed FO pilots, but now will do the same for active FO pilots that want to come to FJ