FO/Flex how would you vote to integrate??

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Gabby's lies? The same applies to you. Yes I admit that I don't like everything the big bad union does , but I prefer not to go back to the "trust me" days.

 

[The Architect]

Word Twisting

Ummm, examples of your CBA directly contributing to our work rules as you stated. Go back and read you post again.

It's not my CBA. Maybe you should go back and read it again. I didn't state "directly contributing." I said some of the items in your agreement come out of the Flight Options CBA.

Considering the probable authors, that only makes sense.

So, what's the problem? The little taint of the Teamsters in your agreement bother you?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Sheep waiting for the slaughter.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

It's not my CBA. Maybe you should go back and read it again. I didn't state "directly contributing." I said some of the items in your agreement come out of the Flight Options CBA.

Considering the probable authors, that only makes sense.

So, what's the problem? The little taint of the Teamsters in your agreement bother you?

Just that our work rules didn't change after your CBA was ratified.

Maybe you were able to get some of our work rules in your CBA.

"Your welcome"

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Interesting enough, some of the items in the Flexjet pilots employee agreement come right out of the Flight Options Pilots CBA. Of course, you have no way to enforce them.

Right here is where you said it by the way.

Before you make an idiot out of yourself, please go back and read your own posts.

 

[The Architect]

Worry Rules

Just that our worry rules didn't change after your CBA was ratified.

Maybe you were able to get some of our work rules in your CBA.

"Your welcome"

I could be wrong. But I highly doubt that the negotiating team at Local 1108 referred to your "at will" policies to develop ANY language in their CBA.

 

[The Architect]

Name Calling?

Right here is where you said it by the way.

Before you make an idiot out of yourself, please go back and read your own posts.

Nice try counsel.

I said some items came from the Flight Options Pilots CBA.

What I DIDN'T say is that they "directly contributed" to your agreement.

Can we move on now?

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Nice try counsel.

I said some items came for the Flight Options Pilots CBA.

What I DIDN'T say is that they "directly contributed" to your agreement.

Can we move on now?

Ok, after you tell me what the difference is.

If they came from the FO CBA wouldn't that directly contribute?

Maybe I should have taken more English classes in college to understand the meaning of words at your level. They seem to mean the same thing to me.

 

[slowtation capt]

It amazes me how you guys just want to beat up the FJ pilots and working conditions. Are you guys the "bad" cops and some day someone nice from your union will start communicating in a way that is not condescending and insulting.

Just like you beat up on ASA and AA pilots from your old posts.

Maybe they bronzed a TWA MD-80 to give themselves a trophy on how well they SCREWED all of us.

JustAPilot.....By the way, YOU ARE WELCOME that we TWA pilots took the majority of the furloughs that you Sky Nazi's would have had to endure following 9/11. Figure AA furloughed around 2,500 pilots. The 1st 368 were hired post merger, so of the next 2150 that would have been furloughed, we took the hit for almost 75% of them. Best X-Mas present you guys will ever get, but at least you appreciate it (NOT), you still hate us. All we did is shield the bottom 2,000 pilots at AA from furlough.

80for80....Right on brother. I am assuming the people bustin out on Eagle flowbacks are trying to figure out how if they are better than the Eagle guys they can't even fly for them. Actually heard it on DFW tower two days ago as an MD-80 from AA climbed out. "Eagle 528 contact departure. He resopnded, no that was AMERICAN 528 to departure." I laughed, like he could get through training at Eagle to fly for them.

JustAPilot: You said "If the shoe was on the other foot I would completely understand going to the bottom of the list and would do so without complaint."


If you really believe that, you have lost touch with reality. As you know (you are not an idiot), seniority is everything in the airlines. The only reason you would say such a thing is to justify what YOU, yes YOU as an AA pilot did to the TWA pilots. I would bet that you would have a hard time finding anyone else on this board who believes you would just "go to the bottom of the list and would do so without complaint." I have no problem understanding why you feel you should be able to staple the TWA pilots, why should you not try to better yourself at the expense of others (integrity, professional ethics ring bells).

As far as you saying you had nothing to do with it, that is a crock. Since (this is an assumption) you are a member of the APA, YOUR union did this to the TWA pilots. Since you are a union member, that means YOU did this to the TWA pilots. If you can produce some sort of e-mail or phone records of you trying to convince the APA that this was wrong to do, then I will retract this statement. Sitting around and letting the APA do this while no yourself "doing" anything doesn't remove the guilt. You in-action speaks just as loud as others' actions.

Alcoholic,

There you go thinking us ex-TWA pilots will ever be AA pilots. Come on now, listen to them, WE ARE NEVER GOING TO BE AS GOOD AS THEM. We are just lucky that we were able to let them take our jobs in STL. Actually, we also should give up our new jobs at ASA so some of the furloughed AA pilots can keep flying. It is not fair that we got jobs after furlough. They own us, we should give them our current paychecks to make up for their misfortune.

FL000,


Wow, you must have such as vast understanding of Texas from your comments. Let's start shooting holes in your not so accurate description. Have you ever been to east Texas, you know, fly on the E on the compass from Dallas / Ft Worth. That area is called the pinney woods area. We call that, WOW, you guessed it for the trees out there. As for being flat, have you ever been to west Texas. Once again, you fly on the W on the compass from Dallas / Ft Worth. Out there we have mountains, not the hill you call Stone Mountain. In fact, the highest point in Texas is Guadalupe Peak which rises to 8,749' MSL.

So, once again, what were you trying to say about the Great State of Texas son?

The Atlantic Southeast pilot group, overall, is a truly outstanding collection of aviation professionals.


Ummm,

I got a few stories from my two years there that would contradict that statement.

There was a speed restriction of 250 kts next to a 9,000 crossing restriction and the Captain I was flying with asked if I could call to see if ATC needed the speed. I told him it was below 10,000', and he still made me call. Good times.

Captain was hand flying the aircraft into DFW on a beautiful VFR day. We were getting vectored all around and slowed to 250 kts. As our number came up, ACT told us to pick the speed up to 310. As we stabilized at our new speed I could tell the Captain saw something he didn't like. He didn't say anything, but he kept glancing around the cockpit cross checking everything. I finally asked him what the problem was. He said that his attitude indicator was not working correctly. I scanned my PFD, then his, then the standby. They all were showing the same thing. Since we were VFR, we were able to cross check it with the "big attitude indicator" out our windows and it too was the same. He then went on to tell me that at 250 kts it took X degrees on pitch to hold altitude, and now at 310 kts it was taking far less pitch to hold altitude. At first I figured he was just joking with me, but after a few minutes of discussion I realized he really didn't understand why different speeds required different pitches to hold altitude. I tried to explain it to him for about 15 minutes, but he was convinced that something was wrong and was going to write up his AHRS on arrival into DFW. I told him he would need to write mine up also, since it was doing the same thing. Upon arrival into DFW, the Captain called maintenance and did just that, write up both AHRS.

There are more stories, but those two still stand out in my mind.

Now, most of the ASA pilots I flew with were good, but every company has it's 5%, I guess I just got to fly with them at ASA.

ex-ASA

As you can see TWA is god's gift to aviation.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Just like you beat up on ASA and AA pilots from your old posts.













As you can see TWA is god's gift to aviation.

I am far from that.

After I was furloughed I was bitter. I am sure you would be also.

I am not proud for all of my posts.

Now, here we sit with another union trying to take over a company I work for.

And you wonder why I am so passionate.

You keep telling me how this will not hurt us, but when some of your members post it sure brings back some memories.

I am actually glad you posted those messages. It is adding resolve to my cause.

You are starting to realize the uphill battle you are fighting or you wouldn't have starting dragging up my past to discredit me.

The ball is in your court. Is is up to the IBT to sell to FJ why us having your union is better than staying as we are. So far you are failing miserably.

All I/we have to do is keep shooting holes in your ridiculous and inaccurate claims. It seems to me that we have the easy part of the job.

Good luck

 

[CL-350]

The Flex pilots I've running into are 60-75% in favor of having representation DESPITE their affiliation with the IBT.

Cabbie, you are delusional. I can say with near certainty that if Flops files for single carrier at this time IBT would be voted out. And no I am not anti-union. But if KR comes in and starts screwing with us like you guys are so certain of and obviously wishing for, then all bets are off. If Flops guys on this board are smart then they/you will back off and just wait to see what happens with this mess we all find ourselves in.

 

[Praetorian]

I am far from that.

After I was furloughed I was bitter. I am sure you would be also.

I am not proud for all of my posts.

Now, here we sit with another union trying to take over a company I work for.

And you wonder why I am so passionate.

You keep telling me how this will not hurt us, but when some of your members post it sure brings back some memories.

I am actually glad you posted those messages. It is adding resolve to my cause.

You are starting to realize the uphill battle you are fighting or you wouldn't have starting dragging up my past to discredit me.

The ball is in your court. Is is up to the IBT to sell to FJ why us having your union is better than staying as we are. So far you are failing miserably.

All I/we have to do is keep shooting holes in your ridiculous and inaccurate claims. It seems to me that we have the easy part of the job.

Good luck

Time to hang your head and walk away. Everyone knows you're a management tool. My guess is most of the Flex pilots who used to admire you know it too. Cut your losses JM.

 

[V1 Rotate]

The Flex pilots I've running into are 60-75% in favor of having representation DESPITE their affiliation with the IBT.

You're either on crack, just happened to run into the small minority that want it or you're lying. No way that's a true representation of the Flexjet group.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Time to hang your head and walk away. Everyone knows you're a management tool. My guess is most of the Flex pilots who used to admire you know it too. Cut your losses JM.

I get it. One of your buddies here at FJ shared my name on your union board.

You feel by posting my initials that you scare me.

Bitch please.

Everyone at FJ knows who I am. I am not ashamed nor should I be. How is it that those at FJ who use to admire me (I don't think there are many) will change their mind. They already know who I am. Nothing you have said changes that.

You guys are losing the battle and grasping at straws

I feel sorry for you.

I would love to keep chatting but I have to get up early tomorrow and go fly.

You guys keep trying to figure out when you lost this battle.

 

[Club ORD FO]

So by KR saying in his meetings a few months back, that he wants single carrier as of yesterday, that means what?

Yeah but he wants single carrier status because he thinks that the union will be voted out. which it certainly might be. I'd agree with the others who said a 60%+ pro union mentality at flex is way high. No way it's that many. I've talked to guys who were pro union when it was a just a flex union on the table but they are not pro union in the case of a merged options and flex pilot group. Flex pilots are going to go bat sh*(&t crazy if single carrier status is handed down and vote no to the union out of spite, basically blaming the union for forcing a merger.

What is there to gain for flexjet, or both pilot groups for that matter, under a single carrier status? I think we'd all be happier if we play in our own sandboxes just like we have been since the sale.

 

[Club ORD FO]

Our 6 month check is done on the road with a check airmen, a 8 rotation is spent with the check airmen.

I'm not sure what I find more horrifying, the fact that you do 8 day rotations or that you basically do an 8 day eval for recurrent. Must admit I'm not a fan of either of those tow things and hope we never see them at Flex. Personally I think we have great training. I like the 6mo being in the sim because you get time to see some unusual failures that you could in no way see in the real airplane safely. Cascading failures on a rejected takeoff for example.

 

[993_Pilot]

I'm not sure what I find more horrifying, the fact that you do 8 day rotations or that you basically do an 8 day eval for recurrent. Must admit I'm not a fan of either of those tow things and hope we never see them at Flex. Personally I think we have great training. I like the 6mo being in the sim because you get time to see some unusual failures that you could in no way see in the real airplane safely. Cascading failures on a rejected takeoff for example.

We would ALL prefer to do our 6 month check in the sim. It is obviously the better way to do things, but that costs too much $$ money. You don't honestly think the rolling 8-day checkride was by choice of the FO pilots do you? Mark my words... KR will cut that sim time in a heartbeat. Sure, he won't change anything while there is a potential representation vote at stake, but that will be one of the first things that disappear once the single carrier / representation thing is determined.

What shocks me the most is that some of you Flexjet guys have learned absolutely nothing from history. Ask around about the RTA/FO merger. Ask about the proposed FO/CA merger. Seriously, just ask!!! What do you all think will happen to the pilots of XO jet when that acquisition is finally announced? Once you hear the truth about those things, think about your position in this whole merger. KR is using you to try to get rid of the IBT, but do you really think he will be loyal to you, once the determination has been made? Was he loyal to the FJ pilots (or any group, other than the preferred management pilots/SFO's) in determining the new Global pilots? KR will be loyal to the cheapest labor who won't write anything up, that's who he'll be loyal to. Look, I will be the first to admit that the IBT isn't the perfect answer to everything, but voting out the union is the worst possible choice. The best choice is to grab a seat at the table. Trusting in the benevolence of management and begging for mercy and is a waste of time, and a drag on the whole industry. Are ALL the pilots of the majors wrong for wanting to be represented by a union? Together, we will all be stronger. Food for thought.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Name calling. You continue to establish a new low. BTW how often do the lawyers give you your talking points?

 

[slowtation capt]

I get it. One of your buddies here at FJ shared my name on your union board.

Nobody shared you name on the union board

Might want to think about all the loyalty that you claim people have to you, because it wasn't shared on the union board, it was shared somewhere else, I didn't ask for it, it was just handed to me, along with your #.

 

[slowtation capt]

You are starting to realize the uphill battle you are fighting or you wouldn't have starting dragging up my past to discredit me.

The ball is in your court. Is is up to the IBT to sell to FJ why us having your union is better than staying as we are. So far you are failing miserably.

All I/we have to do is keep shooting holes in your ridiculous and inaccurate claims. It seems to me that we have the easy part of the job.

Good luck

Actually I was looking for something I thought you had said, and saw all those old posts.
Wasn't trying to dig up anything, except for a quote of something that I thought you said.