Gary Kelly Ain't Waitin' for the DOJ!!

[Candide]

You're right about that, dicko.

A person needs to be a naive optimist on some level to become an airline pilot.

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

I'm cool. You cool?

Gup

Oh yeah, I'm good, thanks. Just got back in from playing in the snow with my son, built a snowman, snowball fight, hot cocoa and Sponge Bob, headed back to work tomorrow, 15 hours in Tampa, 24 hours in Cancun, life is awesome, it really is...

I'm as nervous as the next guy over how this will all go down, but I'm just happy to be here and staying positive over what the future holds.

Best thing I ever did was stopping moderating these discussions and not posting nearly as much. Thanks for the kick in the tail about it... Seriously. :beer:

 

[scoreboardII]

24 in Cacun? We'll find a way to turn those into 10 hr overnights...

 

[RedDogC130]

Yeah...it will be 10 hours cancun....24 Lubbock

 

[Lonestar]

24 in Cacun? We'll find a way to turn those into 10 hr overnights...

Nahh...We'll find a way to make them all turn lines. They won't trust us enough to be "good" boys and girls.

 

[Tripower455]

Just don't understand why this has to be so acrimonious. I really don't. Every time things start to calm down, people have to rile each other up again. Really doesn't need to be this way...

Really? You can't see the reason for the acrimony?

Our company has decided that we should give your pilots a significant chunk of our seniority. Losing it to new hires does not make us happy. Huge gains in every facet of your careers are not enough. You have to take our seniority as well. That is the source of the acrimony.

It's nothing personal, so forgive us if we view you as uninvited relatives that are coming to live in our house, and are gonna eat us out of house and home.

 

[Lear70]

So you're telling me it's like Eddie in National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation:

Clark: Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?

Eddie: Naw, I'm doing just fine, Clark.

In all seriousness, I understand why people are aggravated and concerned, I just don't see how it translates to this much *personal* animosity. It's not like the individual pilots decided this was a great idea (although from a business standpoint it makes sense to me), so what good does taking it out on each other do?

And as far as our international destinations becoming turns and 10 hour overnights, yeah, that's why I'm getting as many in as I can now...

 

[27 driver]

What does a vote by a majority have to do with preventing lawsuits by disenfranchised groups from either seniority list. That's the whole point on the law is that majority can't just trump the rights and interests of a minority from either list. Best of luck, but without an arbitration, there will be much more infighting, with one, everyone can just be mad at the arbitrator together, it's much more unifying!

I didn't say they couldn't sue but I don't think there is any grounds for it if the majority of the group votes for an agreement. That is what voting is for.

 

[kwick]

Really? You can't see the reason for the acrimony?

Our company has decided that we should give your pilots a significant chunk of our seniority. Losing it to new hires does not make us happy. Huge gains in every facet of your careers are not enough. You have to take our seniority as well. That is the source of the acrimony.

It's nothing personal, so forgive us if we view you as uninvited relatives that are coming to live in our house, and are gonna eat us out of house and home.

You get to keep all of your seniority and your crappy attitute.

And the AT pilots are not uninvited, Airtran is considered so valuable to
the future of SWA that they are paying $1.4 Billion.

You paid for your training to be an airline pilot, and now you
want them to buy you that Captain's seat that you've always wanted.

Sorry, ain't gonna happen. No "Seat-Grab Windfall"

 

[SWA/FO]

No "Seat-Grab Windfall"

NO SWAPA Pay, enjoy the fence.

 

[Tripower455]

You get to keep all of your seniority and your crappy attitute.

Really? You guys agreed to a staple?

My attitude was great until Gary decided to sell us down the river. Heck, it's still great.

I guarantee if our roles were reversed, you'd not be any happier than we are. You guys won the lottery. Period. We are gonna be the ones that pay it out. Enjoy it. We earned it!

And the AT pilots are not uninvited, Airtran is considered so valuable to the future of SWA that they are paying $1.4 Billion.

Maybe. Hopefully, this isn't the beginning of the end of a great company. Unfortunately, the only folks that are gonna lose on this deal are the WN pilots.

You paid for your training to be an airline pilot, and now you
want them to buy you that Captain's seat that you've always wanted.

I started this career way before the PFT BS, and never paid for a dime of airline training in any of the 9 airlines I've been at in the last 26 years. I did pay for my private, commercial instrument and multi, but after that, someone else foot the bill.

Southwest "bought" my (5th) Capt seat for me over 10 years ago.

Sorry, ain't gonna happen. No "Seat-Grab Windfall"

Did we cancel the acquistion? AWESOME! You guys won't grabbing our seats or seniority, along with the rest of your exorbitant windfall!

 

[kwick]

Really? You guys agreed to a staple?

My attitude was great until Gary decided to sell us down the river. Heck, it's still great.

I guarantee if our roles were reversed, you'd not be any happier than we are. You guys won the lottery. Period. We are gonna be the ones that pay it out. Enjoy it. We earned it!

Maybe. Hopefully, this isn't the beginning of the end of a great company. Unfortunately, the only folks that are gonna lose on this deal are the WN pilots.

I started this career way before the PFT BS, and never paid for a dime of airline training in any of the 9 airlines I've been at in the last 26 years. I did pay for my private, commercial instrument and multi, but after that, someone else foot the bill.

Southwest "bought" my (5th) Capt seat for me over 10 years ago.

Did we cancel the acquistion? AWESOME! You guys won't grabbing our seats or seniority, along with the rest of your exorbitant windfall!

Sounds to me that you have absolutely nothing to lose.

If UAL had tried to buy SW a few years ago, I'm sure you would have been all for a fair SLI.

The "Golden Rule" would dictate that this be done fairly and that everyone goes forward.

With your seniority you might even be able to hold Atlanta, after the
"Fence" comes down.

 

[75M]

Hey Tripower, I wish I had an iota of control over this thing, but since I don't, I can't get too worked up over it. What's gonna happen is gonna happen and we're gonna have to live with it. Sorry if you feel like we're the uninvited hillbilly cousins crashing your Black Tie and Boots Affair, but the truth is, that we were invited (even if we are hillbillies).

Anyway my point is...is that a '66 with a Tri Power 455? Street or Strip? I've got a GTO myself, a '73 400 Q-Jet.

 

[Truckdriver]

and swa has a MUCH better case than aii in front of an arbitrator.

How do you figure that? I'm a neutral third party here and don't care how this goes down, but really the only one up SWA has on AT is a better contract and hourly pay. If you read the last two SLI awards and the reasoning behind why they did what they did, SWA pay and contract rules DO NOT give them a much better case. It will be part of the case, but in no way does it determine the outcome.

I would say you are probably both going into this fairly equal and I'm sure the arbitrators already know what they will do with the list if they are the ones chosen to arbitrate. If any side asks for something unreasonable, the arbitrators will be less likely to listen to their case in the hearings. USAIR and NWA lost on their SLI cases because they asked for something completely unreasonable and were unwilling to move.

If it goes to arbitration my bet is they leave the SWA guys hired before 1992 alone then ratio in the AT guys after that. Also, arbitrators have stated they don't like fences. In the DL/NWA merger both sides asked for fences on the narrowbodies (one thing that they actually agreed on) and they STILL didn't include them in the award. Fences may solve a short term problem for the pilots, but they create a very large long term problem for the company and drive costs up.

 

[Tripower455]

Hey Tripower, I wish I had an iota of control over this thing, but since I don't, I can't get too worked up over it. What's gonna happen is gonna happen and we're gonna have to live with it. Sorry if you feel like we're the uninvited hillbilly cousins crashing your Black Tie and Boots Affair, but the truth is, that we were invited (even if we are hillbillies).

Hey, Lear70 asked, and I answered. These things are ALWAYS ugly, and unfortunately, it's our turn in the barrel.

It has nothing to do with boots or black ties. As a pilot group, we have little to gain in this particular SLI and stand to lose alot. You guys are getting a pretty big bump in just about every facet of your career. No ego, or arrogance on my part, I don't think I am better than anyone else and I'm just lucky to be here. Basically, we have what we have and we don't want to lose it.

Anyway my point is...is that a '66 with a Tri Power 455? Street or Strip? I've got a GTO myself, a '73 400 Q-Jet.

Nice.... There was a pretty clean '73 sitting in a gas station in Ft Meade for a few years. I passed it every week driving to MCO, so I finally stopped in to see if it was for sale. Of course, it wasn't. It sat for a few more years and then just vanished, like they all do. Hopefully, someone that appreciates these things got hold of it..... There was also a decent '69 sitting in a yard in Winter Haven for about 5 years, that also wasn't for sale, until it too vanished!

Mine's a '66 vert, 462 KRE Dports, SD "Old Faithful" hydraulic roller, ported aluminum tripower, ported carbs, tremec tko600 5 speed, moser 12 bolt......

It was a complete basket case when I bought it, and spent almost 9 years restifying it. It's mostly street driven, but I do take her down the track a few times a year. It runs high 7's in the 1/8 when I can get it to hook......

 

[Tripower455]

Sounds to me that you have absolutely nothing to lose.

How do you figure that?

If UAL had tried to buy SW a few years ago, I'm sure you would have been all for a fair SLI.

I can say without hesitation that if the shoe were on the other foot, I'd be happier than a pig in you know what to be acquired by a better airline. Of course, I'd want as much of your seniority as I could take, in addition to my windfall.

The "Golden Rule" would dictate that this be done fairly and that everyone goes forward.

We can only hope.

With your seniority you might even be able to hold Atlanta, after the
"Fence" comes down.

You can have it! Hopefully, for a very long time!

 

[S3sundowner]

Truckie, since you seem to be such an authority on sli, please give us your definition of "fair and equitable". I'm not sure you understand the disparities here.......

 

[Max Powers]

This may be the most relevant, revealing post yet.

Airtran pilots will soon have a gigantic gains in compensation, work rules, and job security. And yet AAI pilot Max Powers enthusiastically reminds me that my new reality as a SWA pilot is likely to be "painful."

At least we both understand the inequity involved.

No my reply was directed towards someone with a lopsided view of reality. If you have the same unrealistic view than yes it will be painful. Most SWA guys are realistic that the staple is long dead and some sort of Rel. seniority merge will happen.

 

[Bob Dylan]

No my reply was directed towards someone with a lopsided view of reality. If you have the same unrealistic view than yes it will be painful. Most SWA guys are realistic that the staple is long dead and some sort of Rel. seniority merge will happen.

I wouldn't count on that. I think a staple is the only offer trannies are gonna get. Or no deal.

Jumpseated on AirTran again this week and the two pilots couldn't have been nicer. I could definitely tell that they were concerned that the deal would fall through, and both of them said they would gladly take a staple to get on the SWA list. The CA seemed even more willing to take a staple than the FO since he was turned down by SWA. FO has had his stuff in for years at SWA, but never got the call. Great guys, nonetheless.

 

[Full of LUV]

I wouldn't count on that. I think a staple is the only offer trannies are gonna get. Or no deal.

Jumpseated on AirTran again this week and the two pilots couldn't have been nicer. I could definitely tell that they were concerned that the deal would fall through, and both of them said they would gladly take a staple to get on the SWA list. The CA seemed even more willing to take a staple than the FO since he was turned down by SWA. FO has had his stuff in for years at SWA, but never got the call. Great guys, nonetheless.

Good thing your wearing glasses because your so full of $*$Y($U# that it may be seeping out of you eye lobes..... and no I don't work for AAI