SkyWest IAH Base, What If ?

[clr4theapch]

One last thing.. The next member that swears, trying to be creative swearing will get 10 days off or more.. no PM's just gone..

The is getting heated.. so stop the scab talk and such.. that will get you 30 days... not kidding....

Mod clr4

 

[bobbyice]

Oh no! For God's sake, what will we all do if we get banned for 10 days from FI.com?

 

[vtech]

Here is what is lame, a non-union airline coming in violating our contract and undermining our leverage.

What is "lame" is saying "a non-union airline is coming in violating our contract and undermining our leverage."

There are only two parties to the contract. Those parties are CAL management and, possibly, its successors and the CAL Pilot Group. Neither Skywest pilots nor Skywest management are parties to the contract in question. Neither Skywest pilots nor Skywest management can "violate" a contact to which they are not a party.

Nothing a Skywest pilot or a member of Skywest management can do can undermine or enhance your leverage. Your contract is your leverage and it stands on its own. The terms of your contract provide whatever leverage there is.

You'll have to speak with an arbitrator or a judge to get your contract enforced the way you want. In the meantime, I'll be happy to give you a ride to work. I'd appreciate the same consideration from you and your fellow pilots. Thanks.

 

[AWACoff]

Vtech,

Well said. I imagine all of this won't amount to a hill of beans. Some Skywest guys and some CAL/UAL guys will deny jumpseats and then it will all die down.

CALALPA will prevail in the arbitration though so at that point this flying will be in violation of the CAL contract. Knowingly performing flying in violation of another group's contract is not the most ethical thing to do. At that point is when I see a wholesale denial of jumpseat privileges to any group performing that flying.

You made a very well thought out and reasonable post though and it is refreshing to see on this site. Kudos to taking the high road. Hopefully everybody does.

 

[Flyerdan]

Vtech,

Well said. I imagine all of this won't amount to a hill of beans. Some Skywest guys and some CAL/UAL guys will deny jumpseats and then it will all die down.

CALALPA will prevail in the arbitration though so at that point this flying will be in violation of the CAL contract. Knowingly performing flying in violation of another group's contract is not the most ethical thing to do. At that point is when I see a wholesale denial of jumpseat privileges to any group performing that flying.

You made a very well thought out and reasonable post though and it is refreshing to see on this site. Kudos to taking the high road. Hopefully everybody does.

You state this like it is a sure thing but clearly it could go the other way as well. I will be happy with either decision. I do wonder though if the decision will be respected. If it goes against CALALPA will the CAL pilots simply move on to the next issue? If it goes against United will there be fines (or other mechanisms) if they violate the ruling? Either way it won't make a significant impact on me as a Skywest pilot. We simply fly the aircraft our mainline customer wants us to fly to the city they pay us to fly it to.

 

[Nevets]

You state this like it is a sure thing but clearly it could go the other way as well. I will be happy with either decision. I do wonder though if the decision will be respected. If it goes against CALALPA will the CAL pilots simply move on to the next issue? If it goes against United will there be fines (or other mechanisms) if they violate the ruling? Either way it won't make a significant impact on me as a Skywest pilot. We simply fly the aircraft our mainline customer wants us to fly to the city they pay us to fly it to.

I won't be happy either way. I would only be happy if CALALPA wins the arbitration. If they do and CAL management doesn't comply, I think that CALALPA can get an injunction from a federal judge to force CAL management to comply. I suspect that if CALALPA loses, they will move the battle to contract negotiations.

 

[cybourg10]

You guys realize that the arbitration is only over using CAL flight numbers on the flights right? If CALALPA wins all they do is remove the CAL flight numbers and the flights operate anyway with only UAL numbers. Some of you act like they will change the schedules.

 

[Nevets]

You guys realize that the arbitration is only over using CAL flight numbers on the flights right? If CALALPA wins all they do is remove the CAL flight numbers and the flights operate anyway with only UAL numbers. Some of you act like they will change the schedules.

Then why doesn't CAL management just do that now and save themselves the hassle and cost of arbitration? Honest question.

 

[cybourg10]

Then why doesn't CAL management just do that now and save themselves the hassle and cost of arbitration? Honest question.

Psychological warfare maybe? I dunno. But those flights will go no matter what the ruling. They probably like being able to sell the seats on continental.com and they figure its worth the fight. Why are you asking me why management does what they do?

 

[Nevets]

Psychological warfare maybe? I dunno. But those flights will go no matter what the ruling. They probably like being able to sell the seats on continental.com and they figure its worth the fight. Why are you asking me why management does what they do?

Lol, trying to find the mole. Haha. No I thought you knew some legal argument from their scope language or something. It just doesn't make sense to me. If it was that simple, they would have just used UAL flight number to begin with, or so it seems to me. I have a feeling that it is a sticking issue and without the CAL flight number, their argument fall apart.

 

[johnpeace]

Then why doesn't CAL management just do that now and save themselves the hassle and cost of arbitration? Honest question.

Because this way they get to push against the CAL ALPA and gauge how firm (or soft) it is. Arbitration on this is a cheap way to gather valuable information that they can take into negotiations.

 

[General Lee]

Because this way they get to push against the CAL ALPA and gauge how firm (or soft) it is. Arbitration on this is a cheap way to gather valuable information that they can take into negotiations.

Sounds like scope must be important to CAL ALPA if they are taking it this far. But you need to realize that this isn't a "give me something and I will give you something" type negotiation. CAL and UAL pilots have HORRIBLE contracts, and everything will have to go UP to just meet current industry standard. UAL management knows this, and to make for a smooth merger, they will have to comply. Since SCOPE was first in the "public negotiations", they will have to deal with that first, and it sounds like CAL/UAL ALPA is mad. The top 10% of senior pilots at both CAL and UAL probably don't care about scope, but the rest do, and any future contract will have to be put to a vote. SCOPE is probably high on the list for change I bet.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Nevets]

Because this way they get to push against the CAL ALPA and gauge how firm (or soft) it is. Arbitration on this is a cheap way to gather valuable information that they can take into negotiations.

That doesn't make sense to me either. If CALALPA loses arbitration, they will just use the lessons learned from it to improve the scope in negotiations. I think that CAL management just slapped the beehive on this one.

 

[Jetjockey]

That doesn't make sense to me either. If CALALPA loses arbitration, they will just use the lessons learned from it to improve the scope in negotiations. I think that CAL management just slapped the beehive on this one.

Exactly. This is the first skirmish in what could be a long war. The bigger prize is keeping CAL scope on the JCBA. This arbitration hearing isn't the end all battle.

 

[BID]

What is "lame" is saying "a non-union airline is coming in violating our contract and undermining our leverage."

There are only two parties to the contract. Those parties are CAL management and, possibly, its successors and the CAL Pilot Group. Neither Skywest pilots nor Skywest management are parties to the contract in question. Neither Skywest pilots nor Skywest management can "violate" a contact to which they are not a party.

Nothing a Skywest pilot or a member of Skywest management can do can undermine or enhance your leverage. Your contract is your leverage and it stands on its own. The terms of your contract provide whatever leverage there is.

You'll have to speak with an arbitrator or a judge to get your contract enforced the way you want. In the meantime, I'll be happy to give you a ride to work. I'd appreciate the same consideration from you and your fellow pilots. Thanks.

Thank you, I have yet to fly with a captain that would deny or has denied a pilot of SkyWest the jumpseat. If so, I would voice my opinion heavily against it.

Regardless of our differences, I hope we extend the same professional courtesy.

 

[difete]

Thank you, I have yet to fly with a captain that would deny or has denied a pilot of SkyWest the jumpseat. If so, I would voice my opinion heavily against it.

Regardless of our differences, I hope we extend the same professional courtesy.

It has been done already. Sadly to a United Furlough guy too. He is now commuting out of Hubby on SWA. He told me the FO told the CA who had no idea about anything that "this guy is Skywest" we do not take them on JS now, the CA agreed and said back: "what goes around comes around", and booted him out.

 

[TheAlchemist]

It has been done already. Sadly to a United Furlough guy too. He is now commuting out of Hubby on SWA. He told me the FO told the CA who had no idea about anything that "this guy is Skywest" we do not take them on JS now, the CA agreed and said back: "what goes around comes around", and booted him out.

Lame and sad...very, very sad.

 

[ehaecker]

I haven't heard of any more denials on the SKW end. Hopefully communication between SAPA and the CAL MEC is effective, and we can keep MGMT out of it.

THat said, I've noticed SEVERAL UAL jumpseaters on my flights lately that don't bother checking in at the cockpit if they have seats in back. You know that they would ******************** their britches if it were the other way around...

 

[Bako Cap]

If you are flying on the United side, they are probably just non-reving. On the Delta side the same thing happens with Delta pilots. I usually do not check with the pilots when I non-rev unless I want free first class.

 

[ehaecker]

If you are flying on the United side, they are probably just non-reving. On the Delta side the same thing happens with Delta pilots. I usually do not check with the pilots when I non-rev unless I want free first class.

This is partially true. The only way I know is when CS comes down before boarding and says "I have 39 and a jump."

I understand when people non-rev (at least back when it was free). I used to do it all the time, because I didn't want to deal with the Delta pilots.

Now, I hear that we have a jumpseater...see a uniformed pilot (UAL) come down the jet bridge, and magically, nobody comes in the cockpit besides the FA and the CS agent. It doesn't really matter to me. Everybody is welcome in our jumpseat...I just find it ironic the the very people that are threatening jumpseat denials are the same people taking our jumpseats without even offering the courtesy of popping their heads in to say "hi".