Countdown to the CAL/UAL TA -- 45 days to go

[Fltlvls]

Sounds like a TA for a country club .How much $$ will it take to capture the RJ flying?. Start up cost, training,where are the a/c coming from etc....

 

[Yuppyguppy]

I can confirm that negotiations are proceeding at a fast pace. Fact: The company showed up with proposals and attys the first day. That doesn't happen very often actually it's quite rare until near the end of a cba.

 

[jonjuan]

I can confirm that negotiations are proceeding at a fast pace. Fact: The company showed up with proposals and attys the first day. That doesn't happen very often actually it's quite rare until near the end of a cba.

Were the company negotiators and attorney's wearing blue F.U. wristbands?

 

[DHPFLYN]

Is the company playing hardball? I noticed they announced new service to Aspen and just replaced a iah to lax flight with Skywest 70 seaters.

 

[whatitdoing?]

Is the company playing hardball? I noticed they announced new service to Aspen and just replaced a iah to lax flight with Skywest 70 seaters.

I wouldn't be suprised if they started their tatics soon. I'm curious what their counterproposal will be with scope. I've heard that if they return a ridiculous counter offer, we'll immediately seek mediation. We'll see.....

 

[Hvy]

The contentious items (pay & scope) haven't been addressed yet. Just wait.

FUPM

 

[General Lee]

Then enjoy the picket line. If you think for a second that you can get all that, well, good on ya. I read the original post to my NERD (Never Ever Really Delta) pilot wife and she was laughing by the end of it.

Tell your NERD wife that you guys actually have some leverage this time thanks to Wall St wanting this done, and oil is lower. When the DL/NWA joint contract was done, oil was still at $130 a barrel. Remind her of that please. Don't go low on your demands, this may be the last large amount of leverage you guys will have. Wall ST and management want this done in a clean manner inorder to get bonuses. Go for it!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SuperFLUF]

The contentious items (pay & scope) haven't been addressed yet. Just wait.

FUPM

JNC scope proposal was passed to mgmt a couple of weeks ago. As of Fri, two sections have yet to be passed but no word on what they are. (compensation is probably one of them as it had not been passed as of the update two weeks ago)

Should be interesting to see what mgmt turns back to us with scope.

 

[densoo]

Looks like it is slipping to mid-October.

"In my brief to you last week, I indicated that progress had slowed down and that management was having a difficult time coming to grips with the reality that this is neither a status quo nor concessionary contract. This week things got back on track and we reached an agreement in principle on the leaves of absence section. That said, it does not bode well for a timely resolution to the contract if we continue to stutter step our way through negotiations. Now that the shareholders have approved the merger, maybe management will reprioritize and place the successful completion of the negotiations higher on their list. Certainly, if negotiations continue at their current pace, when we evaluate the progress in mid October as set up in the Transition and Process Agreement, we will have much more road in front of us than behind." -- Union

 

[densoo]

"If there is no TA by October 12, then the parties agreed to apply for mediation by October 14, 2010. It is becoming clear that despite the Joint Negotiating Committee’s best efforts, the October 5 deadline will not be met."

Well, I guess there's not going to be a contract on October 4th.

 

[VGerect]

How about also correcting the fact that a 20 y/o F/A, her 3 kids, 17 y/o boyfriend, 38 y/o Mom, and 2 cats ALL have non-rev priority ahead of a 35 y/o, college degreed, 12 year regional CA or MIL pilot (and family) who started new-hire training a week later after said F/A? Good luck finding a non-rev seat for you and your pilot family as loads quickly increase. Heck, no wonder F/As keep flying until 80. Their non- rev benes are pretty sweet compared to pilots given a 15 year head start on seniority.

You need to get over yourself uke:

 

[Deerkiller]

How about also correcting the fact that a 20 y/o F/A, her 3 kids, 17 y/o boyfriend, 38 y/o Mom, and 2 cats ALL have non-rev priority ahead of a 35 y/o, college degreed, 12 year regional CA or MIL pilot (and family) who started new-hire training a week later after said F/A? Good luck finding a non-rev seat for you and your pilot family as loads quickly increase. Heck, no wonder F/As keep flying until 80. Their non- rev benes are pretty sweet compared to pilots given a 15 year head start on seniority.

It tweaks me more that at 25 y/o Chelsea Catering supervisor w/ a high school diploma will bump our most senior pilot.

That being said, I'll gladly take a lower pass status to ALL employees in return for a contract that pays me enough to buy full-fare tickets for my family.

 

[tie1on]

get ready for nothing to happen until next summer at the earliest..

 

[BID]

get ready for nothing to happen until next summer at the earliest..

oh ok, thanks. They do sell Viagra you know? ... sorry couldn't resist.


You don't know what the hell is going to happen. They are trying. What does surprise me is the backlash from many of the regional guys.

I thought ending outsourcing to underpaid pilots would be a good thing? I guess not, many are happy flying their, "replacement 737 aircraft." I understand you didn't allow scope relief, but you would think more would support the ending of it.

With regards to the contract, if management will just say YES, then October 5, no problem !

 

[Hvy]

JNC scope proposal was passed to mgmt a couple of weeks ago. As of Fri, two sections have yet to be passed but no word on what they are. (compensation is probably one of them as it had not been passed as of the update two weeks ago)

Should be interesting to see what mgmt turns back to us with scope.

As of Monday, pay rates have NOT been submitted. Minor differences in "banding" opinions.

 

[doh]

Sounds like a TA for a country club .How much $$ will it take to capture the RJ flying?. Start up cost, training,where are the a/c coming from etc....

I think I read somewhere that they will bring their flying back home as regional feed contracts expire. Mainline already financed a lot of these airplanes, so they are coming from United.

 

[whymeworry?]

You guys are smoking crack if you think this contract will get done by the end of this year. Management at both airlines are too myopic to realize the days of post-9/11 concessions are history.

They will drag this out until next summer. At that time, profits will be simply too huge and too glaring to hide and the NMB will remind them of that. Well start talking strike by that time and mgmt will capitulate in the 11th hour. In the end mgmt will regret their stall tactics because it will cost them a lot more.

 

[densoo]

"The JNC will then spend the week following the MEC and ALPA Board of Directors meetings to review this data in preparation for re-engagement with management later in October."

4 Oct, 12, Oct, now late Oct. Slip sliding away.

 

[mamba20]

I know I used to think we'd have something by the end of the summer, fall at the latest. I was blinded by looking at how well the DAL/NWA merger went. I forgot who our management team was. It behooves them to keep us under this POS for as long as possible. At this point I'd be surprised it we see something by the end of NEXT year. We all know that CALALPA is all talk. They won't hold managements feet to the fire. Never have, never will.

 

[Jetjockey]

I know I used to think we'd have something by the end of the summer, fall at the latest. I was blinded by looking at how well the DAL/NWA merger went. I forgot who our management team was. It behooves them to keep us under this POS for as long as possible. At this point I'd be surprised it we see something by the end of NEXT year. We all know that CALALPA is all talk. They won't hold managements feet to the fire. Never have, never will.

Never is a very long time. But I bet you've NEVER been wrong.

 

[densoo]

All expectations were met.

With that mid-October target now upon us, we have assessed our progress to date, as well as considered the tone and nature of negotiations. We have thoroughly weighed the pros and cons of filing an application for mediation with the NMB as outlined in the TPA. Using this information, and in agreement with the Company, we have determined that it is in our best interest NOT to petition the NMB at this time.

New Target Date. We will continue to meet as anticipated through the end of 2010. If no tentative agreement is reached by Dec. 15, 2010, the parties have agreed that they will apply to the NMB for mediation by Dec. 17, 2010, unless the parties agree otherwise.​

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[nimtz]

After all the bravado, they know claim it's not management's fault that they were distracted by Anti-Trust concerns. What a bunch of freaking dopes...

 

[list2002]

What happened to the trump card of CAL not being able to join Star Alliance, Merge, etc. without a new contract in place with the pilots? Is this what has been pushed to Dec 17th? That was all I heard about last year, now no one is mentioning it.

 

[IAHERJ]

What happened to the trump card of CAL not being able to join Star Alliance, Merge, etc. without a new contract in place with the pilots? Is this what has been pushed to Dec 17th? That was all I heard about last year, now no one is mentioning it.

We merged.....

 

[mamba20]

What happened to the trump card of CAL not being able to join Star Alliance, Merge, etc. without a new contract in place with the pilots? Is this what has been pushed to Dec 17th? That was all I heard about last year, now no one is mentioning it.

We still have it as we are still under our current contract. CALALPA is simply very weak. They have no clue of the pulse of the standard line pilot. We have power, but our weak a$$ joke of a union refuses to use it. We don't want to disrupt unity and good relations with management now do we? We'd lose free tickets to Astros games and free greens fees at some of the best golf courses in Houston.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

CAL ALPA's slippery slope of leverage where accountability and results are always reduced to 'Working Together.'

CAL ALPA always delivers what management wants. 28 years has not changed CAL's scab mentality.

 

[mamba20]

I'll tell you this. in my mind ALPA at the "new" United is on thin ice. I will not hesitate to lead the charge to get ride of ALPA for good if they screw us with this JCBA. I mean seriously. Can you say anything positive about a union that forgave scabs simply to get the vote to bring ALPA back on property? No you can't! ALPA is for ALPA, not for pilots. I don't blame the scabs for anything at this point. I blame ALPA.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

All the current UAL/CAL ALPA individuals who volunteered to stepped up to the positions of MEC, LEC, Committee members, etc. should be held responsible for their success and failures.

Hopefully it will go well and they will all be hero's. But if it goes the other way they should all be treated like zero's.

There are four corner stones and if significant improvements are not produced in: Scope, Compensation, Work Rules, and Retirement all responsible in our ranks should feel the personal heat of failure.

 

[mamba20]

All the current UAL/CAL ALPA individuals who volunteered to stepped up to the positions of MEC, LEC, Committee members, etc. should be held responsible for their success and failures.

Hopefully it will go well and they will all be hero's. But if it goes the other way they should all be treated like zero's.

There are four corner stones and if significant improvements are not produced in: Scope, Compensation, Work Rules, and Retirement all responsible in our ranks should feel the personal heat of failure.

If they fail they should forever wear a giant "L" for "loser" on their shirts instead of wings. That way each of us who were screwed can walk up to them and kick them in the shins.

 

[densoo]

They have no clue of the pulse of the standard line pilot. We have power, but our weak a$$ joke of a union refuses to use it.

I couldn't disagree more. I haven't flown with a single pilot whose "pulse" is to do anything but git er done. I spent a four day trip this summer with one with the red wristband. Unbelievable. He bent over backwards a dozen different times to overcome obstacles that were not of his doing and none of his business, to get the planes out and in on time.

The reason the CEO has been heard to say "the pilots are happy" is because the planes are on time. As long as they are on time, the pilots must be happy. That's it, period. While UAL pilots have had an injunction against them to not withdraw enthusiasm, CAL pilots are "happy."

I actually believe the union is ahead of the pilots this time, but there isn't anything the MEC or NC can do when the company looks at the productivity metrics of the everyday line pilots and sees one of the most smoothly run operations in the industry (they were able to furlough 147 pilots because of it).

Leverage is what the line pilots provide to the NC to use. It isn't there and there's very little the NC can do without it.