Deal reached on new pilot hours

[Rez O. Lewshun]

A friend of mines daughter has been in the guard flying C-130's for over two years. She has around 600 hrs, but she is now not airline material, But two guys with their CFI's, buy a C-150, fly it together day/VFR for 300 hours giving each other dual and they are instant 800 hour pilots, a hard number has nothing to do with skill. For example the 500 ME means nothing, we have hired military helos drivers into the right seat of the DA-20 Falcon. They got 10 hours ME to get their ratings. They out flew the 1500 ME guys coming out of the 135 world. Why excellent CRM skills, and excellent IFR skills. Plus just an opinion that the light control touch that a helo driver has is better adopted to a jet transition than muscling a PA-31 around the skies. BTW We had minor problem with one guy who tried pulling up on the right armrest to get back on gluide slope, we fixed that one

Keep craming that round peg into a square hole....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I told her to go to MYR and tow banners for a summer, then she could be a real airline pilot

She has a better chance of getting hurt pulling rags than in the Herc.

 

[CX880]

This compromise basically renders the provisions useless. Very few pilots were ever actually getting hired with less than 800 hours. The average was probably in the 1000-1200 hour range. We needed the 1500 hours to make a significant impact. Disappointing to say the least.

I don't usually agree with you but this time you have it right. Another case of the gobernment intervening on something they know nothing about. This is now basically a joke, VERY FEW actually got on with 250 hours most had 500-1000.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't usually agree with you but this time you have it right. Another case of the gobernment intervening on something they know nothing about. This is now basically a joke, VERY FEW actually got on with 250 hours most had 500-1000.

The problem is the RAA and ATA pumping millions into the coffers of Congress..... they don't want their "free market" to cost them money.

 

[pilotyip]

round and round we go

The problem is the RAA and ATA pumping millions into the coffers of Congress..... they don't want their "free market" to cost them money.

no they want the free market to generate more revenue so they can create jobs, not restrict growth.

Keep craming that round peg into a square hole....

no I am all for the right person in the right seat, which would be the mil trained C-130 driver in the right seat of my Dash-8, not the 800 CFI. If you call the C-130 pilot square, it most likely reflect how squared away she really is, round just because it fits a number is not always the best choice.

 

[Smarta$$]

So these minimums require your future FO's to just have a set number of hours. The guy who flew the grand canyon in a 152 for 1,000 hours is now mandated to be more qualified than the guy that has 700 hours in a high performance twin in and of the north east. I'm with those that disagree entirely. No hiring minimums should exist other than legal qualifications. Very strong practical tests should be the filter.

Your a bonehead. The Guy flying the high performance twin just needs to do it for a few more months. There has to be a minimum standard. I am disappointed that it won't be 1500.

 

[ualdriver]

I told her to go to MYR and tow banners for a summer, then she could be a real airline pilot

800 hours in 2 years.......or you could actually try to give her GOOD advice and tell her to fly her C130 for several more months and then apply?

 

[FoxyWhiskey]

I am ok with the 800 hour deal. I also have to agree that the time AND type of flight experience...combination thereof... (as well as the resume & overall whole package) need to be considered when hiring pilots anywhere. A good recruiter and solid SIM eval will reveal if the candidate is truly someone who has the skills, and can be tolerated on a 4-day trip. 800 hours or 10,000 hours. :beer:

-FW

 

[CFI2766]

no they want the free market to generate more revenue so they can create jobs, not restrict growth.
no I am all for the right person in the right seat, which would be the mil trained C-130 driver in the right seat of my Dash-8, not the 800 CFI. If you call the C-130 pilot square, it most likely reflect how squared away she really is, round just because it fits a number is not always the best choice.

Ummm... point of order, here, your 'honor'.

Let's stop throwing around the idea that EVERY military pilot is better than EVERY civilian pilot. Sure, the odds are that the military trained pilot is a better pilot than the civilian pilot, but that is not necessarily the case. Who's to say that the mil guy, or gal, is better at accomplishing the mission of moving people than the civilian guy, or gal, that has done their homework and sought ways to excel?

800 hours is nothing in the grand scale of things. All this means is that the prospective pilot has to put both feet in the boiling water of being a professional pilot; not simply a dream chaser living off of mommy and daddy's money.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

no they want the free market to generate more revenue so they can create jobs, not restrict growth..

Who is "they"?

 

[pilotyip]

Who is "they"?

the they?, you named them

 

[hmmm]

I can say when we were flying cargo into Diego Garcia in the worst storms with so much rain we couldn't see anything but colors of the lights of the windshield in worst winds and lightning and 3 engines on DC-8s the military guy were always snuggling with their teddy bears or at least their teddies at 3AM.

And I know they didn't deal with gate agents and weather legalities and screwed up dispatchers dealing with 58.5 flights each and all other bs including contradictory mels and defrerals that although were airworthy they were not operationally airworthy and idiot ops people and a hundred other things to block out on time 6 and 7 legs a day at the airlines for thousands of hours. yeah those military guys excel at that stuff when their crystaline brain cells don't have everything in just the right place and can't hack it and complain and whine whereas others learn how to make it work legally and learn to direct.

The only thing that makes the military guys in any way better or more hire-able at the airlines especially the bathroom circle jerk that delta -was- is the good ol boy network.

But hey... that's my opinion. I'm human and some of the military guys do believe they are human. Some.

 

[crj567]

Once again-we will see my version of the endgame brought on by this type of new rule.

-The airlines will run out of "qualified" applicants very quickly. The ATA approach congress (with bags of money) and beg and plead for some way around this problem. The ATA will posit a solution: Cabotage.

Congress will buy it, and Cabotage will happen. $39 fares will continue, and our planes will just be piloted by people from 3rd-world countries. This "shortage" is just the vehicle the ATA will use to get congress to buy off on cabotage. People will be doing our job for minimum wage.

-It is coming-you can bet on it.

 

[xjhawk]

The way it was before was flawed since they had provision for those graduating from those "Elite" schools. If they came from them, the ones with political clout, they could have reduced hours. Just because they pay that kind of money does not make them better pilots at such a low time. I must say that neither does being a military pilot. What the military pilots have is as someone already posted, CRM abilities and procedures they follow to the letter. Discipline and professionalism. Oh well, another hopeful deal the government could have done but they screwed it up.

 

[pilotyip]

that is right going with the odds

Ummm... point of order, here, your 'honor'.

Let's stop throwing around the idea that EVERY military pilot is better than EVERY civilian pilot. Sure, the odds are that the military trained pilot is a better pilot than the civilian pilot,

As you said there is better chance that the 800 military pilot is better, so go with odds. BTW Only my humble experience, but having hired 47 military background pilots in last 12 years, only one failure, 298 civilian background hires, 27 failures. When you hired a mil pilot they are pretty much cookie cutter, you know what you are getting, when you hire a civilian you can get a superb pilot better than anything you have ever seen and you can also get something that should never be near an airplane unescorted.