Deal reached on new pilot hours

[ualdriver]

Sounds like a step in the right direction. Like all things political, it's a compromise and likely there will be more compromise when this provision has to be brought into harmony with the House.

Yip, your example may be valid where this legislation will not serve everyone 100% of the time, but two points. One, I'd rather have a 800 hour minimum (or something higher than comm. pilot mins) and have a few people like your C130 friend fall through the cracks instead of what we have now. Two, your friend chose to be a military pilot and jumped through a bunch of hoops to be there and that's great. If she wants to be an airline pilot, then she can fly for LESS THAN another year to get her 800 hours or get a job on the side and fly. If she wanted to be an airline pilot in the first place, she could have skipped the military route, flight instructed for a year or so, and then applied for a job at your airline.

 

[JumpersAway]

I find it ironic that people have to come to an airline to build time, so that they can meet 135 minimums to fly checks in a cherokee 6 at night in IFR. Anyone else see something wrong with this picture?

This legislation is just whitewash. No effect on safety whatsoever. I've flown with high time guys that would turn me white- I've also flown with low time folks that were really on the ball.

As for those that hope and rely on minimums to raise their wages- not going to work and your logic is faulted. The ONLY way wages will increase is to fight for it. Pilots will have to eventually decide to step up and TELL managments what we and our skills are worth. Simply waiting on circumstances outside of our control to make us more marketable and compensated is for the weak.

 

[DoinTime]

This compromise basically renders the provisions useless. Very few pilots were ever actually getting hired with less than 800 hours. The average was probably in the 1000-1200 hour range. We needed the 1500 hours to make a significant impact. Disappointing to say the least.

I don't know about every airlines circumstances but SIGNIFICANT numbers of sub-800 (even sub-500) hour pilots were hired over the past several years.

This legislation will be useful to further discourage new generations of pilots from pursuing this career path and to fend off the advancement of the multi-crew pilot license here in the US. Without the military as a source of pilots and with the civilian supply side choked off due the astronomical cost and protracted time frame of getting a job I think you will see a pilot crisis world-wide in 5-10 years. Watch out for the age 70 rule!

 

[pilotyip]

tow banners

Sounds like a step in the right direction. Like all things political, it's a compromise and likely there will be more compromise when this provision has to be brought into harmony with the House.

Yip, your example may be valid where this legislation will not serve everyone 100% of the time, but two points. One, I'd rather have a 800 hour minimum (or something higher than comm. pilot mins) and have a few people like your C130 friend fall through the cracks instead of what we have now. Two, your friend chose to be a military pilot and jumped through a bunch of hoops to be there and that's great. If she wants to be an airline pilot, then she can fly for LESS THAN another year to get her 800 hours or get a job on the side and fly. If she wanted to be an airline pilot in the first place, she could have skipped the military route, flight instructed for a year or so, and then applied for a job at your airline.

I told her to go to MYR and tow banners for a summer, then she could be a real airline pilot

 

[Tarzan]

This legislation is just whitewash. No effect on safety whatsoever. I've flown with high time guys that would turn me white- I've also flown with low time folks that were really on the ball.

I find this to be a large problem that we have effective done to ourselves. While we all want some sort of protection against personal vendettas and an overzealous fed, we end up stuck with pilots that should not be in a airplane let alone command of a Part 121 plane. Seniority alone should not dictate what seat a pilot should be able to hold. If the same pilot keeps coming up again and again as a problem, stick them back in the right seat or back on the street after all attempts to correct an shortcoming have failed. We need to quit defending these sorts of actions by pilots and let the those who've earned it, wash out.

 

[NotTooBad]

So these minimums require your future FO's to just have a set number of hours. The guy who flew the grand canyon in a 152 for 1,000 hours is now mandated to be more qualified than the guy that has 700 hours in a high performance twin in and of the north east. I'm with those that disagree entirely. No hiring minimums should exist other than legal qualifications. Very strong practical tests should be the filter.

 

[sweptback]

So these minimums require your future FO's to just have a set number of hours. The guy who flew the grand canyon in a 152 for 1,000 hours is now mandated to be more qualified than the guy that has 700 hours in a high performance twin in and of the north east. I'm with those that disagree entirely. No hiring minimums should exist other than legal qualifications. Very strong practical tests should be the filter.

The problem with that is during times of high demand and low supply (2006-2007) the "very strong practical tests" go out the window and the airlines hire whoever walks through the door.

At least this will give a floor to the hiring mins. No going to Colgan at 350 hours to get the time to go to SkyWest or Republic... which is a good thing in my opinion.

 

[no1pilot2000]

There should be more checkrides beyond that which is currently required for a given rating or certificate. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out over time. Right now, it's just alot of politicians talking. Let's see how long it takes for this talk to turn to actions.

 

[bizicmo]

So these minimums require your future FO's to just have a set number of hours. The guy who flew the grand canyon in a 152 for 1,000 hours is now mandated to be more qualified than the guy that has 700 hours in a high performance twin in and of the north east. I'm with those that disagree entirely. No hiring minimums should exist other than legal qualifications. Very strong practical tests should be the filter.

Isn't that what they are doing, changing the legal qualifications? Before the legal qualification to get hired was a commercial ticket and now its going to be the ticket plus hours.

 

[nerjdriver]

I like the quote about the entry level job being an airline pilot now........funny they dont want pilots to have entry level jobs at regionals but they are willing to accept entry level pay at them

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

A friend of mines daughter has been in the guard flying C-130's for over two years. She has around 600 hrs, but she is now not airline material, But two guys with their CFI's, buy a C-150, fly it together day/VFR for 300 hours giving each other dual and they are instant 800 hour pilots, a hard number has nothing to do with skill. For example the 500 ME means nothing, we have hired military helos drivers into the right seat of the DA-20 Falcon. They got 10 hours ME to get their ratings. They out flew the 1500 ME guys coming out of the 135 world. Why excellent CRM skills, and excellent IFR skills. Plus just an opinion that the light control touch that a helo driver has is better adopted to a jet transition than muscling a PA-31 around the skies. BTW We had minor problem with one guy who tried pulling up on the right armrest to get back on gluide slope, we fixed that one

Keep craming that round peg into a square hole....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I told her to go to MYR and tow banners for a summer, then she could be a real airline pilot

She has a better chance of getting hurt pulling rags than in the Herc.

 

[CX880]

This compromise basically renders the provisions useless. Very few pilots were ever actually getting hired with less than 800 hours. The average was probably in the 1000-1200 hour range. We needed the 1500 hours to make a significant impact. Disappointing to say the least.

I don't usually agree with you but this time you have it right. Another case of the gobernment intervening on something they know nothing about. This is now basically a joke, VERY FEW actually got on with 250 hours most had 500-1000.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't usually agree with you but this time you have it right. Another case of the gobernment intervening on something they know nothing about. This is now basically a joke, VERY FEW actually got on with 250 hours most had 500-1000.

The problem is the RAA and ATA pumping millions into the coffers of Congress..... they don't want their "free market" to cost them money.

 

[pilotyip]

round and round we go

The problem is the RAA and ATA pumping millions into the coffers of Congress..... they don't want their "free market" to cost them money.

no they want the free market to generate more revenue so they can create jobs, not restrict growth.

Keep craming that round peg into a square hole....

no I am all for the right person in the right seat, which would be the mil trained C-130 driver in the right seat of my Dash-8, not the 800 CFI. If you call the C-130 pilot square, it most likely reflect how squared away she really is, round just because it fits a number is not always the best choice.

 

[Smarta$$]

So these minimums require your future FO's to just have a set number of hours. The guy who flew the grand canyon in a 152 for 1,000 hours is now mandated to be more qualified than the guy that has 700 hours in a high performance twin in and of the north east. I'm with those that disagree entirely. No hiring minimums should exist other than legal qualifications. Very strong practical tests should be the filter.

Your a bonehead. The Guy flying the high performance twin just needs to do it for a few more months. There has to be a minimum standard. I am disappointed that it won't be 1500.

 

[ualdriver]

I told her to go to MYR and tow banners for a summer, then she could be a real airline pilot

800 hours in 2 years.......or you could actually try to give her GOOD advice and tell her to fly her C130 for several more months and then apply?

 

[FoxyWhiskey]

I am ok with the 800 hour deal. I also have to agree that the time AND type of flight experience...combination thereof... (as well as the resume & overall whole package) need to be considered when hiring pilots anywhere. A good recruiter and solid SIM eval will reveal if the candidate is truly someone who has the skills, and can be tolerated on a 4-day trip. 800 hours or 10,000 hours. :beer:

-FW

 

[CFI2766]

no they want the free market to generate more revenue so they can create jobs, not restrict growth.
no I am all for the right person in the right seat, which would be the mil trained C-130 driver in the right seat of my Dash-8, not the 800 CFI. If you call the C-130 pilot square, it most likely reflect how squared away she really is, round just because it fits a number is not always the best choice.

Ummm... point of order, here, your 'honor'.

Let's stop throwing around the idea that EVERY military pilot is better than EVERY civilian pilot. Sure, the odds are that the military trained pilot is a better pilot than the civilian pilot, but that is not necessarily the case. Who's to say that the mil guy, or gal, is better at accomplishing the mission of moving people than the civilian guy, or gal, that has done their homework and sought ways to excel?

800 hours is nothing in the grand scale of things. All this means is that the prospective pilot has to put both feet in the boiling water of being a professional pilot; not simply a dream chaser living off of mommy and daddy's money.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

no they want the free market to generate more revenue so they can create jobs, not restrict growth..

Who is "they"?