Deal reached on new pilot hours

[Caveman]

You misunderstood the article. A commerical can be had at 250 hrs. which is the minimum time (or certificate) allowed to hold a 121 FO spot. The proposal states that you can still acquire the commerical at 250 but there would be a minimum amount of time (800 hrs.) before you could apply and be hired by an airline. It's a hiring minimum - not a certification minimum.

Perhaps college might've fortified your reading comprehension.

These are the first two paragraphs from the article:

"Senators have reached a compromise to dramatically increase the number of flight hours new commercial copilots need to get a license, though the figure falls short of what the group Families of Continental Flight 3407 was seeking.

Under a deal brokered by Sen. Charles E. Schumer and announced Friday, new co-pilots would have to have 800 hours of flight experience in specific, rigorous conditions, up from the current 250 hours of general experience."

If they aren't talking about a commercial certificate, what other kind of 'license' are they talking about. It appears to me they are proposing increasing the minimum hours to 800 for a commercial certificate.

The wording is ambiguous (look it up). That's why I asked the question. Pay attention.

 

[pilotyip]

EXACTLY. Now - which ones are "stuck" at JUS because the "can't get hired anywhere else?"

The upper middle aged ones are the ones that stay, because they are making near $100K, and even with a degree at age 55, where are they going to go? The one that left were a mix of degreed and non-degreed, thte non-degreed guys went places like UAL, JB, Spirit, NJ, AT, SWA just to name a few. My Gad how did they slipt throught cracks, because they were great guys, excellent sticks and just fun ot be around. The kinda guys you want to hire, so you don't let the degree get in the way.

 

[152SIC]

These are the first two paragraphs from the article:

"Senators have reached a compromise to dramatically increase the number of flight hours new commercial copilots need to get a license, though the figure falls short of what the group Families of Continental Flight 3407 was seeking.

Under a deal brokered by Sen. Charles E. Schumer and announced Friday, new co-pilots would have to have 800 hours of flight experience in specific, rigorous conditions, up from the current 250 hours of general experience."

If they aren't talking about a commercial certificate, what other kind of 'license' are they talking about. It appears to me they are proposing increasing the minimum hours to 800 for a commercial certificate.

The wording is ambiguous (look it up). That's why I asked the question. Pay attention.

I also think that the 800 hours is for a commercial license.

http://www.ainalerts.com/ainalerts/alerts/031810.html

 

[pilotyip]

800 Comm requirement No Way!

I also think that the 800 hours is for a commercial license.

http://www.ainalerts.com/ainalerts/alerts/031810.html

maybe this reads you must have 800 to be a SIC, but you can still be a 91, CFI, VFR 135 PIC? what do you think? But if it is 800 for a Comm, what does a pilot do for 800 hours? No CFIing, No Banner Towing, no sightseeing, it will nearly kill all progression except for rich people.

 

[acpilot]

Are you on acid?? You are the only one that keeps arguing against your self. No one else is saying that it's required to safely and efficiently fly an airplane!

And I agree ERAU should not be considered a formal education. How beneficial is 2 hours of FMS 101 every other day????

I re-read my posts and I can see how it looks like I'm arguing against myself. I'm sure some folks know what I'm saying, however.

If efficient, safe operation isn't an issue, why is there even an issue with HS v 4year?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I also think that the 800 hours is for a commercial license.

http://www.ainalerts.com/ainalerts/alerts/031810.html

While the article (you cite) does indeed state that it is for certification purposes, I believe that the few articles cited in this thread are written by journalists who are mixing up terminology.

This would effectively mean CFI's or banner towers would have to receive 800 hours in order to receive these jobs.

The spirit or intent of the reform seeks to address 121 or airline operations, and in doing so, seeks to change the minimum hours and experience breakdown for employment purposes. These higher requirements would need to be accomplished outside of the 121 environment while still possessing a commercial certificate.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

If they aren't talking about a commercial certificate, what other kind of 'license' are they talking about. It appears to me they are proposing increasing the minimum hours to 800 for a commercial certificate.

The wording is ambiguous (look it up). That's why I asked the question. Pay attention.

Sorry if I came across as rude. I agree the wording is is ambiguous. However, I think these journalists are mixing terminology up.

 

[sayrejm]

Go to college... yes. But for the love of God, take half the money you would spend at Riddle and get a degree in something useful and then take the other half and learn to fly part 61. You get the same damn green piece of plastic plus a backup plan.

 

[Caveman]

Sorry if I came across as rude. I agree the wording is is ambiguous. However, I think these journalists are mixing terminology up.

Thanks for the apology. Their choice of words is confusing. I'm not sure what they are really proposing.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

This is all funny, especially since many 91/135 jet operators employ SICs with less than 1500 hrs. Somehow they're exempt. Are they only concerned about PAX in the air or people on the ground (as in a crash). This is a public relations placation for the masses who overwhelmingly travel by airliner. I'm all for an ATP certificate before siting right seat. It's just so logical. The airlines themselves actually fought against this. Yet, they hold safety in the highest regard.

 

[152SIC]

maybe this reads you must have 800 to be a SIC, but you can still be a 91, CFI, VFR 135 PIC? what do you think? But if it is 800 for a Comm, what does a pilot do for 800 hours? No CFIing, No Banner Towing, no sightseeing, it will nearly kill all progression except for rich people.

According to this article it sure seems like they are trying to raise the minimums for the commercial license. So flying anything commercially, including CFIing, would require 800 hours. I am sure it could also be an oversight by the articles author.

Everything published so far is relatively vague and open to interpretation. But this article was the clearest I came across.

 

[sayrejm]

you have needed a commercial so far to sit right seat so in other words you have needed 250 hours, now youll need 800 hours and the press thinks the only commercial pilots out there fly for the airlines... thus they say 800 hours to fly commercial... i think the press is just being ignorant is all.

is 'have needed' correct english??? just sounds weird

 

[pilotyip]

college only?

Literacy was once the exception not the rule, shall we advocate that it's not necessary because many illiterate people have "reached good career positions," or because they are good people worthy of admiration? Hyperbole perhaps, but it points out the absurdity of the argument.

So are you saying the only way to be successful in life is to go to college. Being tradesman, owning your business, and making over $150K/yr is not successful?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

So are you saying the only way to be successful in life is to go to college. Being tradesman, owning your business, and making over $150K/yr is not successful?

Success is whatever you define it to be. Money and occupation shouldn't be constant variables.

 

[Tristar]

So are you saying the only way to be successful in life is to go to college. Being tradesman, owning your business, and making over $150K/yr is not successful?

I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing professional pilots and what standards should be for that profession. Apparently you're having another discussion entirely.

 

[Kalifornia]

Hey does your mom know you are using the computer, shouldn't you go back to etrade LOL.

Wow, that's takes real talent to be 70 years old, still living and working in Deloliet, trolling a pilot message boards in hopes of tearing down the profession before you fly till you die, and still manage to throw text short cut words like you were some 15 year American Idol loving chick, "LOL". That's on top of all the really ballsy, idiotic, illegal, and dangerous suggestions such as a PIC shouldn't challenge the safety of a MEL. And Caveman wonders where the personal attacks come from.

You understand who's lives were personally attacked? The victims of the Buffalo Colgan crash. An accident that was part of a culture that PilotYip continues to believe in where anyone can make the grade to become a professional pilot and pilots should except piss poor compensation and work conditions to keep the maximum number of pilots in the airline industry. I would pay for charity to see him cower in the presence of close family members and friends of the Buffalo crash victims. There are accidents, and then there are preventable tragic situations such as the Buffalo crash.

Which is why going back to the heart of the thread, that a new minimum should be established. Better to experience something scary during that first 800 hours that makes a pilot better respect basic aerodynamics, then have it happen during airline operations.

 

[Tarzan]

Success is whatever you define it to be. Money and occupation shouldn't be constant variables.

We did that with the airline industry. It was called regulation. If it were to return, you literally see half the airline jobs evaporate in a few years.

 

[pilotyip]

pilot only one way

I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing professional pilots and what standards should be for that profession. Apparently you're having another discussion entirely.

no I was looking at a bigger picture, success in life in general. Being a pilot is only one way, the way I chose, a path I am glad I followed. There are many ways to succeed and a college degree is only one of many paths that lead to success

 

[swordfish]

This compromise basically renders the provisions useless. Very few pilots were ever actually getting hired with less than 800 hours. The average was probably in the 1000-1200 hour range. We needed the 1500 hours to make a significant impact. Disappointing to say the least.

Agree 100%

 

[Amish RakeFight]

This compromise basically renders the provisions useless. Very few pilots were ever actually getting hired with less than 800 hours. The average was probably in the 1000-1200 hour range. We needed the 1500 hours to make a significant impact. Disappointing to say the least.

That's not entirely accurate. These provisions call for "experience" minimums, so theoretically the new "800 hour" verison pilot should have more documented or logged hours in certain types of weather and training, something the low time new hires really didn't reflect. Therefore, this should theoretically constitute a more valuable crew member. Regardless, I do agree an ATP should be a minimum. It's not THAT hard to get. Perhaps maybe a year more outside of 121.