To ALL UNITED pilots courtesy of ALL UAX carriers and their pilots

[MountainFreak]

Seems like UALPA is spending more effort to lock the UAX pilots out then to fix the problem........

How dare the "little people" stand up for themselves.....

Sounds like you didn't read our MEC message.

 

[PCL_128]

Sounds like you didn't read our MEC message.

If it isn't signed by Dan Ford, then Short Bus doesn't read it.

 

[Fly2AK]

I'm an ASA/DCI pilot....But I will stand with my fellow UAX pilots....At least they know how to come together....Something ALPA and Mainline pilots haven't figured out.....

Mainline pilots would never accept not having priority on their own aircraft....Why should the UAX pilots....If the shoe was on the other foot....the mainline pilots would be whining more than a Garrett....

I have been in this position and it was easy enough for me to provide a copy in writing from our FOM what the correct riority was, in addition I got out of the cockpit and provided a little oversight on the whole boarding process, protecting jumpseaters and nonrevs alike. What have you done but toot your own horn, sit in your seat and say I will just block all UAL pilots from the jumpseat? The computer system at US Airways (at least when I was there for 9 years) didn't automatically give the express guys priority on their own aircraft, the gate agents, most of them anyhow, knew how the priority worked and if they didn't was advised by the jumpseating pilot and confirmed with the captain. So don't try if the shoe was on the other foot, because I have worn those shoes and dealt with it just fine. Worst case scenario if your still having trouble call your dispatcher and have them call the gate agent, I have done that and it worked just great. There are better ways to handle this but starting a war amongst pilots isn't the way.

 

[trachyte11]

I'm not sure I'm following you. As far as I know, all the agents in those domiciles use United owned computer terminals and links.

quote]

I'll help you follow him. DEN, SFO, LAX and I'll throw in ORD, too, are all UAL domiciles where UAX does a large amount of flying. Express flying that plenty of UAL pilots rely on to get to work.

Fix the problem. Don't start a war. The UAX letter was meant to get UAL's attention. Don't give us this crap about how ALPA doesn't use the jumpseat as a negotiating tool if you plan on denying UAX jumpseats 3 weeks before UAX does if we don't rescind our 'ultimatum'. This wasn't a problem until 9 months ago when UAL and UAL MEC changed the priority on their behalf. Do what's right, and change it back. Don't bull******************** and say UAX management should put up cash to implement the change. UAX management didn't create the problem.

 

[strega7]

If UAL locks out UAX employees in CASS, no gate agent will be able to let a UAX employee on, even on their own plane. Even if I'm wrong about a couple of gates, the station will pretty much be shut to you.

Are you under the impression that an online company pilot needs to go through CASS to get on their own companies aircraft?

 

[Fly2AK]

trachyte11

I'll help you follow him. DEN, SFO, LAX and I'll throw in ORD, too, are all UAL domiciles where UAX does a large amount of flying. Express flying that plenty of UAL pilots rely on to get to work.

Fix the problem. Don't start a war. The UAX letter was meant to get UAL's attention. Don't give us this crap about how ALPA doesn't use the jumpseat as a negotiating tool if you plan on denying UAX jumpseats 3 weeks before UAX does if we don't rescind our 'ultimatum'. This wasn't a problem until 9 months ago when UAL and UAL MEC changed the priority on their behalf. Do what's right, and change it back. Don't bull******************** and say UAX management should put up cash to implement the change. UAX management didn't create the problem.

UAL pilots didn't create this problem so get over yourself. We did not change the priority giving ourselves priority over UAX pilots on UAX aircraft. Do you really think you are going to be able to affect the UAL pilots more than the UAL pilots can affect you? The jumpseat is not there to be used as a bargaining chip or something to start a pilot war over. Your ultimatum does nothing but create more problems.

 

[Fly2AK]

Are you under the impression that an online company pilot needs to go through CASS to get on their own companies aircraft?

They need to be on the manifest and that is done through UA computers and you need to get by the gate agent and thats the tough part. If UAL managment sends out a policy to block UAX pilots from jumpseating on any Ua flights then UAX pilots won't be allowed down by the gate agents. Do you see how this would all play out? UAL pilots don't write the software all we do is negotiate policy with management. A software issue can only be brought to there attention, we can't fix it, but if UAX pilots are going to deliberately cause UAL pilots to miss a commute to work then don't expect to be able to commute yourselves. As stated in the MEC letter to the pilots reference the new deadline of July 17th. You guys wanted to play this out in a all out pissing contest and thats whats about to happen.

"The UALMEC Jumpseat Committee, United Flight ops and the UAX manager from United are going to convene for a telephone conference on Thursday, July 10, 2008. We will advise these UAX members ONE LAST TIME of the difficulties and limitations associated with resolving these issues. We will also put to rest their beliefs that there are quick solutions as well. At the end of this meeting your jumpseat committee will advise these members that they will have one week from July 10th to rescind their decision to deny jumpseats to United pilots. We will also demand they notify the MEC in writing. If at the end of that week they have not reversed their decision, we will IMMEDIATELY do all within our power to prevent them from obtaining jumpseats on United flights. We will request management to instruct our agents to not process them for a jumpseat or issue them an OMC card."

So tell me how this really helps anyone? It will just continue to put pilot against pilot. You should have first crack at your jumpseat, but there are better ways to make that happen. I have been there and I found better ways to deal with it.

 

[MountainFreak]

Are you under the impression that an online company pilot needs to go through CASS to get on their own companies aircraft?

United controls all seats on all its express carriers when they fly for United. Legally. I think you might find out the hard way on this one.

We have control of the gate through our computers and agents, see the post above.

We also purchased every seat in the back long ago through fee-for-departure. You subcontract, we "own" the seats to resell. United, if it chose, could even pull pass privileges for any particular group.
It can automatically give every United pilot a positive space seat. Etc.

I'm not saying any of this will happen, just that is what we are capable of.

 

[NOZ]

We have control of the gate through our computers and agents, see the post above.

And yet, you won't solve the problem... Hmmm

 

[Shrek]

And yet, you won't solve the problem... Hmmm

Doesn't look like Egoes will allow any solution to the problem.........

The War will probably happen and both sides will suffer.

Nothing like cutting of your nose to spite your face.

 

[Shrek]

UAX there was a better way to go then to give an ultimatum.

Doesn't work in marriage/mergers/debates/or Jumpseats........

 

[Evansaero]

United controls all seats on all its express carriers when they fly for United. Legally. I think you might find out the hard way on this one.

We have control of the gate through our computers and agents, see the post above.

We also purchased every seat in the back long ago through fee-for-departure. You subcontract, we "own" the seats to resell. United, if it chose, could even pull pass privileges for any particular group.
It can automatically give every United pilot a positive space seat. Etc.

I'm not saying any of this will happen, just that is what we are capable of.

They don't own MY jumpseat.

On a side note all are welcome except Gojet. I have my own little war to fight

 

[MountainFreak]

And yet, you won't solve the problem... Hmmm

READ THE MEC MESSAGE!

We control access to the gate, but we are talking about a software issue and what Apollo will or won't recognize. It is not an easy fix.

But here is the crux of the issue. UAX airlines want the cost advantage of using UAL computers, software, agents, and access. They want UAL to spend a lot of money to fix software which any Captain could fix at the gate by being a Captain.

More importantly, if you really believe a computer fix is required, then fix it yourselves! Buy your own terminal for every gate, buy and program your own software, and control your own access. You have every right to. You can start tomorrow.

UAX won't though, because they don't want to spend their own money, they want to spend ours.

 

[strega7]

UAX won't though, because they don't want to spend their own money, they want to spend ours.

UAL was more than willing to spend the money that has put us in the positon we are in now. If the MEC hadn't asked for (from all) and gotten super jumpseat priority (at 2) we wouldn't be here. I'm not suprise that management is tired of MEC requested changes that cost money.

 

[ATA For Now!]

UAL was more than willing to spend the money that has put us in the positon we are in now. If the MEC hadn't asked for (from all) and gotten super jumpseat priority (at 2) we wouldn't be here. I'm not suprise that management is tired of MEC requested changes that cost money.

For the last time....the MEC NEVER asked for this....read the UA MEC letter. UA pilots understand there is a problem. Just be a CAPTAIN and exercise some good judgement here. I would NEVER, EVER try to take a seat from someone on their own airline.

I am done with this whole thing. It's like talking to my 2 year old when SHE doesn't get her way. You guys have fun.

I'm out!

RV

 

[bmpilot2003]

READ THE MEC MESSAGE!

We control access to the gate, but we are talking about a software issue and what Apollo will or won't recognize. It is not an easy fix.

But here is the crux of the issue. UAX airlines want the cost advantage of using UAL computers, software, agents, and access. They want UAL to spend a lot of money to fix software which any Captain could fix at the gate by being a Captain.

More importantly, if you really believe a computer fix is required, then fix it yourselves! Buy your own terminal for every gate, buy and program your own software, and control your own access. You have every right to. You can start tomorrow.

UAX won't though, because they don't want to spend their own money, they want to spend ours.

Nice try... Most of the infrastructure was/is already in place for united airplanes. The only thing that changed was the size of the airplane at the gate. All because UAL pilots were to good to fly RJs

 

[bmpilot2003]

For the last time....the MEC NEVER asked for this....read the UA MEC letter. UA pilots understand there is a problem. Just be a CAPTAIN and exercise some good judgement here. I would NEVER, EVER try to take a seat from someone on their own airline.

I am done with this whole thing. It's like talking to my 2 year old when SHE doesn't get her way. You guys have fun.

I'm out!

RV

Your right they did not ask they STOLE it and for 2 years have been unwilling to right a wrong. Lets put this in a context you can understand your 2 year old steals something and you do nothing because your ok with that. Its good to know that you are teaching your 2 year old that stealing is ok.

 

[eaglesview]

Nice try... Most of the infrastructure was/is already in place for united airplanes. The only thing that changed was the size of the airplane at the gate. All because UAL pilots were to good to fly RJs

United guys wanted the RJ's. You however willing to do it for slave wages. Let the games begin. I got no problem denying jumpseats. UAX'rs will find out how unified we can be.

 

[waveflyer]

you're all balls eaglesview--- too bad no guts when it comes to your management and selling out the next generation-- and ultimately yourself.

 

[eaglesview]

you're all balls eaglesview--- too bad no guts when it comes to your management and selling out the next generation-- and ultimately yourself.

"All Balls,No guts???" Very clever

 

[bmpilot2003]

United guys wanted the RJ's. You however willing to do it for slave wages. Let the games begin. I got no problem denying jumpseats. UAX'rs will find out how unified we can be.

Oh really were was your unity then? Slave wages that were set by your so called unity. You OLD PEOPLE have continued(age 65) to screw the younger generation of pilots and then have the audacity to say its our fault?! Its sad that it has always been about "YOU" and not the group.

 

[eaglesview]

Oh really were was your unity then? Slave wages that were set by your so called unity. You OLD PEOPLE have continued(age 65) to screw the younger generation of pilots and then have the audacity to say its our fault?! Its sad that it has always been about "YOU" and not the group.

Love how you "know" me. Is 46 old, if yes then I am old.

 

[imacdog]

United guys wanted the RJ's. You however willing to do it for slave wages. Let the games begin. I got no problem denying jumpseats. UAX'rs will find out how unified we can be.

It was still your flying to give away, no? That part in your contract called Scope that you voted away? Just curious.

 

[pipe]

Oh...BTW Pipe, those are UAL domiciles. have fun with that. god you guys are arrogant! just fix the DAMN problem....issue over.

You guys -- that's funny! I don't work for UAL or any subsidiary thereof. Mine is the opinion of the "average" guy from another carrier. UAX guys might want to consider that.

PIPE

 

[Mr.B]

United guys wanted the RJ's. You however willing to do it for slave wages. Let the games begin. I got no problem denying jumpseats. UAX'rs will find out how unified we can be.

AMEN. Had a jumpseater 2 weeks ago spouting off about getting the 190.

Two things to note;

1. The 190 won't be flying "United" flights, UAL pilots will.
2. Jumpseat on your own airline from now on.

 

[waveflyer]

"All Balls,No guts???" Very clever

Clever or not- just pointing out that this debate wouldn't be happening if all pilots flying the united brand around were on the same seniority list.

 

[eaglesview]

AMEN. Had a jumpseater 2 weeks ago spouting off about getting the 190.

Two things to note;

1. The 190 won't be flying "United" flights, UAL pilots will.
2. Jumpseat on your own airline from now on.

As a UAL pilot I am all for the 190 being flown by united pilots. As far as the jumpseat is concerned I do jumpseat on my own airline, UAL!

 

[waveflyer]

why weren't you 'FOR' the 170/ and CR7 being flown by united pilots?
why weren't you "for' the cr2 and erj135/145 being flown by ual pilots?
why was it acceptable to you that scope was being relaxed and relaxed?

oh.... yeah... now i remember--- pride. In the late 90's there were plenty of UAL pilots who thought the 73 was a 'light twin'

and meant it.

Ie: you got yours- you're a real pilot, flying heavies.... unionism doesn't work that way, and btw- neither does life

 

[eaglesview]

why weren't you 'FOR' the 170/ and CR7 being flown by united pilots?
why weren't you "for' the cr2 and erj135/145 being flown by ual pilots?
why was it acceptable to you that scope was being relaxed and relaxed?

oh.... yeah... now i remember--- pride. In the late 90's there were plenty of UAL pilots who thought the 73 was a 'light twin'

and meant it.

Ie: you got yours.... unionism doesn't work that way,

How do you know what I was for and wasn't for. To this day I have a "UA RJ" sticker on my bag. Here's a news flash one person's vote alone does not dictate how a union moves. Being with United thru the 90's I do not remember the 737 ever being refered to as the light twin.

You seem to get your kicks just making crap up pretending you know what the He// you are talking about.

 

[Freeze_gopher]

I keep waiting for cooler heads to prevail...The UAX letter was a mistake of colossal proportions. An information campaign is ok, asking UAL pilots to help is ok, threats are not ok. UAX pilots didn't even know this letter existed let alone what its contents were before it was sent. UAX pilots were not consulted prior to the letter being sent. The response to the letter was predictable. How do people respond to ultimatums....? Not well.
Not one guy I've spoken to is going to deny UAL pilots the jumpseats, I won't, its a ridiculous concept.
Beyond that UAL is going to get a certain level of priority, they pay the freight. The April 07 letter to UAX JSCs asking for priority was not unreasonable. It did not ask for priority over that companies pilots, just everybody else. Plus, the UAL guys have a lot on their plates right now. I have to admit that being perceived as being upset about the ease of my commute seems pretty petty in the face of 1400+ guys losing their jobs.
Common sense and deescalation are needed pronto.