To ALL UNITED pilots courtesy of ALL UAX carriers and their pilots

[Fly2AK]

IOW, if you control your jumpseat, then write your own computer code with your priority list..for the OO jumpseat. When pilots show up to j/s on OO then have the gate agent access your own in house program. And/or us PIC authority.[/qoute]

I do control the use of the jumpseat on my aircraft. All the way up to denying an FAA inspector or Secret Service member if I think that I could justify it. We only use the Apollo computer right now to sort jumpseat requests because that has, for the most part, worked for everyone in past. Now because of a request from the UAL MEC to attain a "higher" than agreed to priority on a few UAX carriers, the other UAX pilots have been placed at a disadvantage on their own aircraft.

If this is not resovled by Aug 1st, it would be the easiest thing to take your suggestion and start a new standalone jumpseat procedure for UAX flights in the UAL system. Simply have the agent print an OMC card for everyone and send them all to the captain. Easy as pie! All pilots would be aware of this new program and would be on the "correct" footing while meeting the PIC. If the UAL guy can hold a non-rev seat in the back, great! If it's full, the Captain will decide who will ride up front.

When did UAL MEC ask to have higher priority on UAX aircraft? Where is your documentation or proof that the MEC asked for priority over UAX pilots on UAX aircraft? If this is true then why was it approved?

 

[Shrek]

DOesn't look good after reading the LEC update yesterday.

Jumpseat War possibilty just went up a few notches.

 

[pipe]

This is the attitude that prevails at the mainline and at ALPA national....Looks like war to me.....

Hey pipe....my job doesn't exist at your pleasure and you don't control $h!t...........

If this doesn't get fixed, I will start denying UAL jumpseaters also....

I didn't say it existed at my pleasure -- didn't even imply that. It does exist at the pleasure of the mainline carrier - you cannot reasonably argue that point. Hell, the jobs of the mainline pilots exist at the pleasure of the mainline carrier. Why is it so hard for you to accept that your employer is a SUBcontractor of another employer?

Whatever color the sky is in your world, I can promise you that sh!t still rolls downhill and will continue to do so until the end of time.

PIPE

 

[strega7]

When did UAL MEC ask to have higher priority on UAX aircraft? Where is your documentation or proof that the MEC asked for priority over UAX pilots on UAX aircraft? If this is true then why was it approved?

1. Over a year ago.
2. Proof is that he got it at TSA and GoJet(hence the K1 status). Documents show the MEC wanted UAL pilots to go next after company pilots, but before everyone else.
3. It was approved because he asked for it from all the carriers, UAL management asked TSA and GoJet's management and they said fine with us. The other UAX carriers said "No". Now they are K2 and L status.

All of this is fine. But the software UAL is using (that the MEC request changed) is not recognizing that the different UAX carriers are NOT a mainline flight. It has the "bonus effect" of getting some UAL pilots into the jumpseat on some UAX flights that they would otherwise be bummed by an online company pilot.

If I were the MEC I'd be dragging my feet also because this doesn't hurt any mainline guys. If it only affects UAX pilots, oh well. However if/when he starts getting phone calls from his pilots that didn't make it home because of this, he may then be "motivated" to help fix it. Well see.

 

[Flyerdan]

1. Over a year ago.
2. Proof is that he got it at TSA and GoJet(hence the K1 status). Documents show the MEC wanted UAL pilots to go next after company pilots, but before everyone else.
3. It was approved because he asked for it from all the carriers, UAL management asked TSA and GoJet's management and they said fine with us. The other UAX carriers said "No". Now they are K2 and L status.

All of this is fine. But the software UAL is using (that the MEC request changed) is not recognizing that the different UAX carriers are NOT a mainline flight. It has the "bonus effect" of getting some UAL pilots into the jumpseat on some UAX flights that they would otherwise be bummed by an online company pilot.

If I were the MEC I'd be dragging my feet also because this doesn't hurt any mainline guys. If it only affects UAX pilots, oh well. However if/when he starts getting phone calls from his pilots that didn't make it home because of this, he may then be "motivated" to help fix it. Well see.

This stuff is really not relevant. Seems everyone agrees that there is a problem but would rather debate about the history of the issue instead of working to resolve the issue itself.

If you are a UAL pilot and have communicated to your MEC to fix it please speak up.

 

[contrail67]

Just was in the United crew room yesterday...alot of talk about the "jumpseat war"....most guys are saying not a good fight to start. I would investigate another option of fixing this problem.
You are going to be starting something that WILL be handed right back to you. There are better options. Just my advice.

 

[Flyerdan]

Just was in the United crew room yesterday...alot of talk about the "jumpseat war"....most guys are saying not a good fight to start. I would investigate another option of fixing this problem.
You are going to be starting something that WILL be handed right back to you. There are better options. Just my advice.

Hmmm, maybe we could hire some computer hackers to break into their computer system and fix it? No, I still think that asking UAL pilots to help out and contact their MEC is a better option.

 

[spinup]

Hmmm, maybe we could hire some computer hackers to break into their computer system and fix it? No, I still think that asking UAL pilots to help out and contact their MEC is a better option.

I don't know about the rest of the UAL pilots, but I was never "asked to help." I did, however, get an ultimatum shoved down my throat. Judging by the latest LEC notes, UAX has two options. Withdraw, or press forward at their own peril.

 

[Newpilot2b]

So its UEX fault that you were not asked to help the last 1.5 years????Hummm who's faults that?
Now UEX decided to go to the Pilots and ask for help....A MONTHS in TIME HELP. And you B$itch and Moan???????
WHAT DO YOU WANT????
You can't argue and have it both ways!
How about Option #3
Don't email me back here at FI! email you IT Dept and fix the problem...........or are you part of the problem?

 

[IBNAV8R]

If I were the MEC I'd be dragging my feet also because this doesn't hurt any mainline guys. If it only affects UAX pilots, oh well. However if/when he starts getting phone calls from his pilots that didn't make it home because of this, he may then be "motivated" to help fix it. Well see.

Doing the right thing notwithstanding, if it helps UAL pilots get to work, it might get fixed. Or, perhaps, when UAL is bumping revenue pax to NRPS folks to work, they too will see an advantage to fixing the problem. Then again, being UAL MGT, maybe not.

 

[spinup]

So its UEX fault that you were not asked to help the last 1.5 years????Hummm who's faults that?
Now UEX decided to go to the Pilots and ask for help....A MONTHS in TIME HELP. And you B$itch and Moan???????
WHAT DO YOU WANT????
You can't argue and have it both ways!
How about Option #3
Don't email me back here at FI! email you IT Dept and fix the problem...........or are you part of the problem?

WHOA simmer down son. You're saying it's my fault that I/we remained unaware of an express issue. Don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but I am unaware of MANY express issues. Your solution to to raising my awareness by delivering an ultimatum is in extremely poor form.

You shot yourself in the foot with this one. Given YOUR tactics, under no circumstance at this point am I willing to help your cause. If you think that I will now plead your case to IT, you're delusional. I will stand with my MEC's advocation of withdraw, or proceed at your peril.

 

[Newpilot2b]

Hey Spinup,
Yes you are the problem right now!
I asked you NOT to email me back on FI and to email your IT Dept, ALPA MEC or who ever but not back to me.
Nope before I was not blaming you....but now since you do know whats going on and that I/we did ask and informed you now to fix the problem then YUP you are the problem.
Like I said before and I will talk reaaaaaaaal slowwwwww so you can get iiiiiiiiitttttt.
We have ahd the problem for 1.5 years. STOP
We have tried through the JS MEC to have them fix it. STOP
They have done nothing. STOP
Thought that (maybe this is where we(you,me, all of us line pilots) got it all wrong) was that your JS MEC was at least putting out a newsletter to all of the ALPO folks infoming them on whats new in the News? STOP
It looks like they were not letting you know for the last 1.5 years. STOP
So lets inform the UAL ALPO Pilots that there has been an ongoing problem for 1.5 years. STOP
Thus the letter last week. STOP
Sorry for the Cliff notes but DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING HERE???

Not asking to "plead" buddy just an email.

God 100 737's are going away and you want a pissing contest?????

 

[spinup]

Hey Spinup,
Yes you are the problem right now!
I asked you NOT to email me back on FI and to email your IT Dept, ALPA MEC or who ever but not back to me.
Nope before I was not blaming you....but now since you do know whats going on and that I/we did ask and informed you now to fix the problem then YUP you are the problem.
Like I said before and I will talk reaaaaaaaal slowwwwww so you can get iiiiiiiiitttttt.
We have ahd the problem for 1.5 years. STOP
We have tried through the JS MEC to have them fix it. STOP
They have done nothing. STOP
Thought that (maybe this is where we(you,me, all of us line pilots) got it all wrong) was that your JS MEC was at least putting out a newsletter to all of the ALPO folks infoming them on whats new in the News? STOP
It looks like they were not letting you know for the last 1.5 years. STOP
So lets inform the UAL ALPO Pilots that there has been an ongoing problem for 1.5 years. STOP
Thus the letter last week. STOP
Sorry for the Cliff notes but DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING HERE???

Not asking to "plead" buddy just an email.

God 100 737's are going away and you want a pissing contest?????

I've read and understand everything you've written. You say the same thing over and over again. My carrier has an issue, you're not aware if this issue, I'll threaten you into action.

This is an express - UAL issue. NOT an express pilot - UA pilot issue. However, YOUR letter targets me.

YOUR letter is an attempt at manipulation which none of us will give a pass to. You are in ignorant bliss if you think YOUR course of action has jarred any of one of us into compliant action.

One thing you're correct on, I am now part of the problem. I wasn't before, but you've put me and many others there now.

 

[Newpilot2b]

Good glad we are getting some where with ya!

I am glad you know what has been going on these last 1.5 years now. I see it doesn't change anything does it now. Would it have 1.4 years ago?????

See how easy it would have been to put out an email 1.4 years ago to inform, shoot even I can communicate a little (I did with you after 4 emails

I got you all riled up for a reason and YOU proved my point.

I want to thank you very much for doing so.

I will pass this info on good luck to ya

oh "don't shoot till you see the whites of there eyes"

 

[spinup]

Good glad we are getting some where with ya!

I am glad you know what has been going on these last 1.5 years now. I see it doesn't change anything does it now. Would it have 1.4 years ago?????

See how easy it would have been to put out an email 1.4 years ago to inform, shoot even I can communicate a little (I did with you after 4 emails

I got you all riled up for a reason and YOU proved my point.

I want to thank you very much for doing so.

I will pass this info on good luck to ya

oh "don't shoot till you see the whites of there eyes"

Common, you cant really believe what you write. Had you made an appeal for help like a grown up I truly believe you would have found support within our ranks. I would have full heartedly been on board with your cause. Unfortunately, your fist shot across the rank and file bow was this letter, thus alienating much of your support.

 

[Newpilot2b]

DANG I thought I was getting to ya there and we could talk but it seems like the tide has come back in. I don't want to repeat my self on the last 1.5 years so if you need to go back up a few lines and re-read please do.

OK I will try again and talk reeeeaaalllll slow again because it seemed to work before. (what are we up to now 4 or 5 emails you could have sent to IT and Mgmt never mind)

We (UEX) want fair jump seating.
YOU (Spinup) want for us not to have "shoot the first shoot" and don't want to give you a letter.

Now we know the problems we have with each other Lets discuss a solution.

Spinup..........SPIIIIIIIN IT UPPPPPPPP lets see what you got for negotiations here.

You play me and I play you these next few emails ok?

I meaning you, would say, to you, meaning me (with me here???)
"You are right I didn't relize that you guys were getting bumped off flights when you were trying to get to work. I was so busy in the flight deck getting the turn done fast so I could get out on time. I am sorry I didn't have the time to check with the gate to see. I will give a call to my JS "brother" this afternoon and see if there is anything in the works that is going to be done for the whole UAL Family"

Then I I mean you, I mean.... would say "No I am Sorry Spinup maybe the letter should not have had a date assinged to it but it should have been more informational to you guys. I suppose since you are just a line pilot that I can't expect that you could snap your fingers and have it changed like that. Hey you are welcome on to my aircraft any time but would you mind just giving a call real quick to your ALPA JS guy and see what it would take to change the program. I was told about 1 our of time at the computer and it is solved. Hey maybe UEX could pay the UAL IT Guy to change it then it want even cost UAL or UAL ALPA any $. Just trying to solve the problem Spinup. Do you have any other ideas WE could do?

See something along that lines would be effective now wouldn't it????

 

[Flyerdan]

Common, you cant really believe what you write. Had you made an appeal for help like a grown up I truly believe you would have found support within our ranks. I would have full heartedly been on board with your cause. Unfortunately, your fist shot across the rank and file bow was this letter, thus alienating much of your support.

There seems to be lots of heat to this thread/issue and very little light. I don't know if the letter to the UAL pilots was the right approach to this or not. I can tell you that the UAX JSCs were hitting a dead end on the issue and felt that this was the only real next step to take. Even if you have a better alternative at this point it is too late really.

I do think the letter was effective in bringing the issue to everyones attention. Now it just remains to be seen if UAX & UAL can can put their type A pilot personalities aside (mine included) and fix it.

It is too bad that the pilot groups have to be pitted against each other on this issue. I would have rather just seen the jumpseat agreements rescinded altogether due to the lack of reciprocity. Then they could be renegotiated and reimplemented in a manner that is fair to all parties.

 

[spinup]

DANG I thought I was getting to ya there and we could talk but it seems like the tide has come back in. I don't want to repeat my self on the last 1.5 years so if you need to go back up a few lines and re-read please do.

OK I will try again and talk reeeeaaalllll slow again because it seemed to work before. (what are we up to now 4 or 5 emails you could have sent to IT and Mgmt never mind)

We (UEX) want fair jump seating.
YOU (Spinup) want for us not to have "shoot the first shoot" and don't want to give you a letter.

Now we know the problems we have with each other Lets discuss a solution.

Spinup..........SPIIIIIIIN IT UPPPPPPPP lets see what you got for negotiations here.

You play me and I play you these next few emails ok?

I meaning you, would say, to you, meaning me (with me here???)
"You are right I didn't relize that you guys were getting bumped off flights when you were trying to get to work. I was so busy in the flight deck getting the turn done fast so I could get out on time. I am sorry I didn't have the time to check with the gate to see. I will give a call to my JS "brother" this afternoon and see if there is anything in the works that is going to be done for the whole UAL Family"

Then I I mean you, I mean.... would say "No I am Sorry Spinup maybe the letter should not have had a date assinged to it but it should have been more informational to you guys. I suppose since you are just a line pilot that I can't expect that you could snap your fingers and have it changed like that. Hey you are welcome on to my aircraft any time but would you mind just giving a call real quick to your ALPA JS guy and see what it would take to change the program. I was told about 1 our of time at the computer and it is solved. Hey maybe UEX could pay the UAL IT Guy to change it then it want even cost UAL or UAL ALPA any $. Just trying to solve the problem Spinup. Do you have any other ideas WE could do?

See something along that lines would be effective now wouldn't it????

An informative letter, sans the ultimatum, would have been well received. My roots are express, and I would have been sympathetic with these issues. Unfortunately, we are in an entirely different place now.

 

[spinup]

There seems to be lots of heat to this thread/issue and very little light. I don't know if the letter to the UAL pilots was the right approach to this or not. I can tell you that the UAX JSCs were hitting a dead end on the issue and felt that this was the only real next step to take. Even if you have a better alternative at this point it is too late really.

I do think the letter was effective in bringing the issue to everyones attention. Now it just remains to be seen if UAX & UAL can can put their type A pilot personalities aside (mine included) and fix it.

It is too bad that the pilot groups have to be pitted against each other on this issue. I would have rather just seen the jumpseat agreements rescinded altogether due to the lack of reciprocity. Then they could be renegotiated and reimplemented in a manner that is fair to all parties.

All true, with exception to the last paragraph. We weren't pitted against one another prior to this letter. It really is to bad it went down like this. I agree that if express maintains deadline support, reciprocity will definitely be lost, and maybe even more.

The only solution at this point is for express to withdraw their ill advised threat.

 

[Flyerdan]

All true, with exception to the last paragraph. We weren't pitted against one another prior to this letter. It really is to bad it went down like this. I agree that if express maintains deadline support, reciprocity will definitely be lost, and maybe even more.

The only solution at this point is for express to withdraw their ill advised threat.

They may be forced to withdraw by their management but how then does the jumpseat problem get fixed?