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Usapa Vote

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Wow.. a band of teenagers wearing black lipstick and goth clothes have more optimism and real ideas that turtle and Joey....

Turtle... tell us how USAPA is going to manage the money. Get off the hyberbole and rhetorical rants. Your right wing tactic of using a higher degree of vitriol and bile and using the same debate points is laughable. For example if I called someone a dirty pig the tactic is to repsond with *$&@( pig. If you want a link to a website that shows these debate tactics...let me know.. you probably don't even realize it...

Now.. please explain USAPA's plan to offer pilot protections , insurance, etc.. It appears USAPA is only thinking about seniority protections and not the day to day business of a union. Like representing a guy who discharges his weapon.


Joe.. you are a cynical pilot of despair and latch onto anyone who chides ALPA.... you're an angry member of the mob who joins anyone who spews venom.

But let's hear your seniority ideas.... I've asked many times and you have nothing to offer..


Will you reply to post #51?
 
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Its clear that most of the USAPA supporters don't want to see a better union. They just want to see US Airways fail.

Thats ok I guess. I'm 31. In the big picture I wont have a problem starting over somewhere else. I'm pretty sure I won't be seeing these late 40 something and 50 something USAPA hotheads in my new hire class at XYZ airlines, though.

Oh well. Good luck to you.
 
Its clear that most of the USAPA supporters don't want to see a better union. They just want to see US Airways fail.

Thats ok I guess. I'm 31. In the big picture I wont have a problem starting over somewhere else. I'm pretty sure I won't be seeing these late 40 something and 50 something USAPA hotheads in my new hire class at XYZ airlines, though.

Oh well. Good luck to you.

This is getting good, did USAPA also cause the war in Iraq, and the economy to fail?
We get it USAPA=Bad!! ALPA=Good!
Thank you, your post actually made me realize this stuff is not worth taking seriously, with every post it just gets more and more ridiculous.
OK rant over, you can go back to USAPA=Bad ALPA= Good
 
This is getting good, did USAPA also cause the war in Iraq, and the economy to fail?
We get it USAPA=Bad!! ALPA=Good!
Thank you, your post actually made me realize this stuff is not worth taking seriously, with every post it just gets more and more ridiculous.
OK rant over, you can go back to USAPA=Bad ALPA= Good

ALPA is a sick patient and USAPA is a cough from that sick patient......
 
Wow.. a band of teenagers wearing black lipstick and goth clothes have more optimism and real ideas that turtle and Joey....

Turtle...

Its a vote.. Its called democracy. Enjoy it. Its a pretty useful idea. The majority will express what is best. Don't be such a hater.

By the way, the volume of your posts and the enthusiasm you present make it clear that you either get FPL to post on these boards or you are sincerely gunning for such a position.

All the best to you.
 
This is getting good, did USAPA also cause the war in Iraq, and the economy to fail?
We get it USAPA=Bad!! ALPA=Good!
Thank you, your post actually made me realize this stuff is not worth taking seriously, with every post it just gets more and more ridiculous.
OK rant over, you can go back to USAPA=Bad ALPA= Good

Lighten up Francis. Learn to read. Show me where I said any of the above comments. Don't be puttin words in my mouth. I'll let you know loud and clear what I have to say.

I've seen posts where people claiming to be East pilots say that they would rather see US Airways fail than accept the Nic award. I have read things like this on these very boards.

I never said that ALPA was good. At least ALPA will piss-off the airline evenly. USAPA only exists to favor the East side and screw the West.

What do you really think is going to happen if USAPA wins? At the Phoenix roadshow they basically said they would concede to a less that parity contract if it will win over management. They basically said they don't have a plan B if they can't change the Nic award (and they wont be able to). If they win it will be an endless legal battle. Right after USAPA wins some legacy carrier is going to buy us and staple all of us to the bottom of their list. Nothing will get done. This senario is a management's wet dream.

US Airways pilots, East and West, are gonna get slaughtered. We will get wipsawed against each other just like the regionals.

The part that I don't understand is this: when our MECs agreed to go into binding arbitration we all realized that there was a chance that we might not like the outcome. So why did you agree to binding arbitration? I think that the East guys really thought this Nicolaou was going to hand to you our asses on a silver platter, and when that didn't happen you went postal.

Right now the East guys are the majority. But remember, in 10 years when the east guys start retiring, we'll eventually be the majority. And we wont forget what you did to us.
 
How is that?

The Presidents salary is determined by democratic election by pilot representatives. How is your CEO's salary and compensation determined.

Pocket your money? They do get a living allowance to live in Wash DC. And they must pay taxes on that allowance as if it were income.

I posted before... BC, the VP of Admin, an AMR Eagle pilot makes around 100K, I am guessing. Should he sell his house and buy a Wash DC property?

Volunteering for your union actually cost money. For the common committee member to the Nat'l Officers.

But you would know that from your volunteering days. Tell me... what did you volunteer for?



What you really need to think about is the salaries of "ALPA management"




Who? The USAPA guys? They have no back up plan, no insurance plans, no money and are using personal credit cards to run thier experiment in DOH grabs.
ALPA:Housing allowance average for each of the four National Officers = $9,856/month/officer or
$118,275 each per year. Seems to me these guys could team up and get a really swanky crash pad for alot less! All this while a fellow MESA F/O eats out of his lunch kit earning 20K per year. Flying segment times..who needs block or better?? This under the wonderful ALPA contract. Or the Atlas Air Pilot who sits in Nairobi earning nothing but per diem for 5 days under his ALPA contract. Who needs a duty rig??These just to name a few.
 
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Its a vote.. Its called democracy. Enjoy it. Its a pretty useful idea. The majority will express what is best. Don't be such a hater.

Might doesn't make right... or what does the USAPA lawyer call it? Oh yeah... Tyranny of the Majority is also called democracy.. riiiiiight...

By the way, the volume of your posts and the enthusiasm you present make it clear that you either get FPL to post on these boards or you are sincerely gunning for such a position.

All the best to you.

Trying to gracefully bow out?
 
Might doesn't make right... or what does the USAPA lawyer call it? Oh yeah... Tyranny of the Majority is also called democracy.. riiiiiight...


....unless you are on the side of "might"....You are the preacher of democracy....unless it doesn't suit you I guess....

Tyranny of the Majority is what some of us have been fighting against within ALPA.....

Funny how people like democracy when it suits them......
 
....unless you are on the side of "might"....You are the preacher of democracy....unless it doesn't suit you I guess....

What is democratic or honaorable about agree to Nic then back tracking?

Tyranny of the Majority is what some of us have been fighting against within ALPA.....

No... you are just a poor loser.

Funny how people like democracy when it suits them......

Funny how people don't like democracy when they don't get thier way... and sue.
 
What is democratic or honaorable about agree to Nic then back tracking?



No... you are just a poor loser.



Funny how people don't like democracy when they don't get thier way... and sue.

Didn't ALPA agree to a contract at Alaska that included binding arbitration....and didn't ALPA sue when they didn't agree with the binding arbitration....Sorry Rez...that is how things work...
 
Didn't ALPA agree to a contract at Alaska that included binding arbitration....and didn't ALPA sue when they didn't agree with the binding arbitration....Sorry Rez...that is how things work...


Didn't you get schooled on that already?

How much did the RJDC lawsuit cost you?
 
Dear US Airways Pilots,

My name is Roger Hall. I have been with Continental Airlines for 18 years. I am writing this to shed some truth about the recent letter you received from Jay Peirce, the MEC Chairman at Continental Airlines. I am also writing this to urge to vote for USAPA.

Let me start by saying that in 2001, I wanted nothing more than to have ALPA on the property here at Continental. Growing up and watching my father serve as an ALPA LEC Rep and Council Chairman had made me believe that ALPA was the way to go. I always knew that my father was fighting for either the career preservation or improvement of his fellow pilots. When we here at CAL were faced with the vote I thought it was a simple choice. I talked my father and was shocked when he told me it was best to stay Independent and that it will be the better choice for the long haul. He told me of the pitfalls and of how little power the pilots really have under ALPA. He warned that once some of the so called volunteers were in, they became lifers motivated by self interest and said I need look no farther than the one MEC vice-chairmen of the eighties, he is still wearing a suit and tie and he is the VP of Finance today. You will pay for the all the trapping, pomp and circumstance of a national union with no sense of the profession and receive less efficient bargaining and be tied to policies that try to serve to many masters and likely not serve your own pilot group well. Well I didn’t listen I voted ALPA and regret it now more that ever.

It didn’t take long to realize that it was a mistake. Contract ’02 negotiations were delayed from the start following the 9/11 Attacks. Airline management used this against all Airlines. We saw A Plans go, some without union ratification, pay cuts, work rule changes, and the list goes on. Well instead of ALPA National standing up and rallying all the Airline pilots to fight the fight, ALPA sat back and watched each airline go their own way. Meanwhile APA, the union that represents American Pilots didn’t back down that easy. Despite the fact that they were near bankruptcy the fought back against Management theft and preserved their A Plan, maintained the best B Plan in the industry and had snap back provisions.

Here at CAL under the first and only ALPA contract I have experienced, things are not better, they are worse. Keep in mind that we were not threatened by Bankruptcy or in Bankruptcy like American or US Airways. We had a CEO that told us we are better than everyone else, our cost are lower, and that we are prepared to fly into the future with our young fleet. Yet the independent union at APA far out negotiated our ALPA contingent and the engineered the replacement of their CEO to boot.

Here are just a few things that were given up;

-Replacing line construction with a preferential bidding system that is a mess. PBS doesn’t fully honor seniority and if you are not a program specialist every month is a crap shoot. Pilots are putting off upgrade and transitions because the schedules are so bad. We have pilots in the 60% holding B757/B767 Captain and 2 year pilots as B737 Captains because no body wants them. Well more than a thousand pilots bypassed upgrade to Captain.

-The way our Vacations and training are credited make for an awful bid month. I hold a better schedule without vacation than I do with a vacation week.

-Our Frozen A plan is just that frozen not protected.

-We have no Snap Back. ALPA negotiations will start below where ALPA experts left us 6 years ago.

-There is no Schedule Improvement again because of PBS.

-As Part of Contract ’02, we had a side letter that protected us in case the other Union Groups didn’t ratify their contracts. We didn’t have to honor our contract until such a time that all employees took pay cuts. Well that side letter didn’t last ONE DAY. Our then MEC Chairman, Captain Jay Panarello, gave CAL Management the green light for the concessions, WITHOUT Membership Approval. Is this really what you want in a Union.

Ladies and Gentlemen we are not better off with ALPA. There is no National Unity, there is no National Expertise, there is No 61,000 Strong, there is No Merger Protection, No Seniority Protection, No Insurance or Medical protection. All of the above can be attained or protected just as easy with an Independent Union. I am working under the worse conditions of my career. Other than hourly rate I had a better Quality of life under the Old Frank Lorenzo Pilot Employment Policy when hired in 1990 than I do under an ALPA Contract.

Remember You are the Union, You are what makes it strong and you have the chance to Own your Union and not come second the interest of others or the Union itself. Just ask yourself, are the pilots at Southwest, UPS, American, AirTran worse off than us ALPA Carriers, or has their Independent Unions served them well?

In closing I am embarrassed of our Union President, in 15 moths at the helm he has signed a Comair concessionary contract, and done more to divide pilots than anyone before him. While we all continue to live in an uncertain environment with Losses in Pay and Quality of Life, our fearless leaders continue to live like fat cats. I ask, “John Prater, How is that taking it back?”

I fully support the USAPA efforts and will continue to see all pilots as my brothers and sisters no matter what the paint scheme on the airframe is. I urge each and everyone of you to vote for USAPA.

Fraternally,

Roger Hall II
EWR B737 Captain


 
Didn't you get schooled on that already?

How much did the RJDC lawsuit cost you?

It didn't cost me that much....I am getting much of my expenses back thru the settlement......

Back to the "binding arbitration"....why is it different when ALPA opposes the result of "binding arbitration".....You can't have it both ways Rez....if it is binding....then ALPA should have just accepted it....Why did ALPA sue?
 
It didn't cost me that much....I am getting much of my expenses back thru the settlement......

How much....

Back to the "binding arbitration"....why is it different when ALPA opposes the result of "binding arbitration".....You can't have it both ways Rez....if it is binding....then ALPA should have just accepted it....Why did ALPA sue?

In fact I think PCL schooled you. You know.. the S/T that served with integrity....
 
In fact I think PCL schooled you. You know.. the S/T that served with integrity....

Tell me how "binding arbitration" means different things depending on which side of the fence you are on.....I'm not familiar with that concept.....
 

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