Usapa Vote

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Trust me the QOL is not well at MESA and we try to make it better...believe me. OJ is determined to make it bad by VIOLATING our contract....EVERYDAY!!!!! ALPA ENFORCE IT!

So is it JO or ALPA?

How hard s that? Very difficult for ALPA I guess...We are not winning the battle I assure you!

Again... why do you expect ALPA to be effective at mesa? Who told you ALPA was?

Have you considered its more than ALPA?

WHOSE job is it to enforce our contract with the RLA? ALPA.

Ok... who exactly? Name names of who should be enforcing your contract? Some dude named ALPA?

The greivance process is like telling your kid to put a band aid on the leg that's broke! A 5 year broken leg? Sounds fun

Who wrote the laws and regulates the greivences process? ALPA?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

My response was "so if Aloha was to go under, is it fair or right for a pilot of your experience to start on the very bottom of another seniority list as an FO making 25k a year?" "Well, it wouldn't be right, but it is what it is."

Whoa! It would not be right or fair? Why? and what is the fix?

Recall this is America... you know capitalism, free market society etc... cut throat market competition. If we were small business owners then we'd glee when our competition ran out of business.

I agree it is not fair. I've been furloughed twice. But instead of one person getting a raw deal you are suggesting that it roll down hill and others get the same raw deal as well...

I never expected my fellow pilot at another carrier to accept the consequences of my failed CEO and is weak business plan.

Why should a fellow pilot that was smart or lucky enough not to get hired at Aloha have to feel the pain of Aloha's problems????

My point is that ALPA is outdated and has outlived its usefulness.

Wrong! You blame ALPA yet too many pilots support a gov't that advocates cut throat competition.

USAPA has its own problems, and will most likely fail even if voted in, but I have to give them credit for at least thinking outside the box even if it's wrong.

Are you serious? you are giving credit for what you concede is wrong???

Thinking outside the box is something that ALPA could NEVER do, and that's why it's outdated, and it needs to go.

As soon as ALPA goes outside the box then its creditbility suffers.

Look, ALPA, a labor union, doesn't have the political support and power to go outside the box. Why do you expect it to?

But if you want to condone ALPA, then what kind of outside the box thinking should ALPA do?

National Sen List? How... NO ONE CAN SHOW US HOW!!

SOS? HOW!! Pilots think demonstrations are weak!!

Gov't? HOW? Pilots vote for Bush and McCain!!


ALPA is not gov't. ALPA is not power. Labors strength comes from consensus. That is why speaking out against ALPA in public makes it easy for gov't and CorpAmerica to divide us.

If you are having issues with your spouse, you don't go public or send a broadcast email to the WHOLE family!!


The reason why MLK jr was effective was he got all of his people to stop riding the buses. His "dream" speech would be unknown if it weren't the unified masses who showed up....


As long as you keep acting like a small business owner, Corp America will continue to play us....

 

[TWA Dude]

USAPA has its own problems, and will most likely fail even if voted in, but I have to give them credit for at least thinking outside the box even if it's wrong.

Exactly what "outside the box" thinking are you so enamored of? They think they can vote around a previous agreement -- something only their lawyer apparently believes is legal. They also plan to put just about every issue out to vote by the whole pilot group. Just wait and see how much fun it'll be trying to get any business done that way. If it was such a good idea it would be the norm.

Thinking outside the box is something that ALPA could NEVER do, and that's why it's outdated, and it needs to go.

So exactly who are these ALPA thinkers who are so outdated? Oh yeah, they're the reps who get elected by the pilots. Changing unions doesn't change the pilots. Once again, ALPA is merely a scapegoat.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So another ALPA carrier about to bite the dust thanks to another ALPA carrier. Whats wrong with ALPA is that is supports carriers such as Mesa that replaces higher working jobs.

Oh.... so you are saying that if Mesa was not ALPA then Mesa would not undercut another ALPA carrier...

Is this correct?

If you see the amount of CRJ 700 and 900 in Charlotte, you know where all the USAIR jobs went.
Thanks ALPA for your support and please stop sending me 2-5 letters a day. Save a tree. They must have spent almost 100000.$ in postage in the last few weeks. Your dues at work.

Marty

So if ALPA was called something else.... then it would not have given all those jobs away?

And those USAIR jobs... they were taken away without consent from the USAIR pilots?

 

[Wiskey Driver]

DOH does not equate to a staple. The only pilots that got stapled were East pilots. 17 years of service and they get stapled behind newhires. Most furloughed pilots should have been back on the property long time ago. Most of them are holding blocks and E 190 captain slots. We are still undermanned. Reserves are all timed out. We are seriously short.

DOH with fences and protections is the only fair way.

AWA pilots do not want to wait their turn. In 10 years, about 75% of the EAST will be gone. So, all you former Mesa pilots at AWA, I know you liked stealing our flying. AWA is a scab infested airline and thats were scabs belong. Its funny that a large number of AWA are MESA and Trans States. Two proud ALPA carriers that love taking away mainline flying.

I say permanent separate lists sine the Nic will never be implemented. Then sell off the unprofitable West. Let them merge with ALOHA so they can save someone else.

Marty

Hahahaha Unprofitable west, that's classic! The east was a twice in 24 months bankrupt mess before AWA came along and now SINCE AWA turned your nightmare of a company around you say sell off the west? Here's a clue, no west no more usair!!!

WD.

 

[vetrider]

http://www.newcastlenow.org/index.php/article/op_ed_sexual_harassment_in_westchester/

Here is "their" lawyer in action, what a putz.

 

[taxi1wire]

Kidding?

USAPA has no financial hope of lasting.... voting in USAPA is career suicide.... Parker will steamroll USAPA into BK and reap the winnings of a representative-less pilot group....

Are you out of your mind? ALPA has hosed you for years. And you want more? Everyone needs to realize that ALPA has become like the Teamsters. The only thing they care about is ALPA. The individual airlines and individual pilot groups matter not. A vote for ALPA is a suicide vote, not the other way around.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Are you out of your mind? ALPA has hosed you for years. And you want more? Everyone needs to realize that ALPA has become like the Teamsters. The only thing they care about is ALPA. The individual airlines and individual pilot groups matter not. A vote for ALPA is a suicide vote, not the other way around.

Can to make logic of your hyberbole?

Not sure if you know what it takes to run the finances of a pilot union, but it does take money.

Explain how USAPA is going to afford FPL and a strike fund?

The reason why pilot groups like the IPA and the NPA have management friendly contracts is becuase those pilot groups simply cannot afford to strike.

Take my regional... we got 2 million in ADDITIONAL support from ALPA for our current contract negotiations. We could have never afforded that...


So at USAPA how are you going to fund this "Tyranny by the Majority?"

Recall the USAPA website.. every pilot needs to give $200......


So... you tell me....

 

[coolyokeluke]

It's too bad US Air didn't go chapter 7. Their motto apparently is divided we conquer.

 

[AV80R]

... Fast forward a couple of weeks, and Aloha is in Chapter 11 and very likely to go Chapter 7 on Monday. Who would have thought?...

Sorry for the thread hijack but do you really think chapter 7 is the next step? I was online some 30 minutes ago trying to buy tickets on you guys but I guess I should probably reconsider it huh? Planning a pretty important day so I want to make sure we'll get there all right…

Hope you're wrong and wish everyone at Aloha the best. Flown on you before and love your service.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

http://www.newcastlenow.org/index.php/article/op_ed_sexual_harassment_in_westchester/

Here is "their" lawyer in action, what a putz.

Yikes!!! I wonder what the USAPA guyz "see" in him...

 

[JoeMerchant]

A few weeks ago, I flew with one of our most senior captains. I told him that I didn't agree with our current seniority system, and boy did that wake him up. He's a single digit seniority guy at Aloha.

"What do you mean?"

My response was "so if Aloha was to go under, is it fair or right for a pilot of your experience to start on the very bottom of another seniority list as an FO making 25k a year?" "Well, it wouldn't be right, but it is what it is."

Fast forward a couple of weeks, and Aloha is in Chapter 11 and very likely to go Chapter 7 on Monday. Who would have thought?

My point is that ALPA is outdated and has outlived its usefulness. USAPA has its own problems, and will most likely fail even if voted in, but I have to give them credit for at least thinking outside the box even if it's wrong. Thinking outside the box is something that ALPA could NEVER do, and that's why it's outdated, and it needs to go.

Exactly!....It doesn't matter if you are ALPA, USAPA, APA, or IBT....The first union that cracks the seniority code will become the new "ALPA".....

We are too invested in our own carriers to act in the best interest of the whole.....

Rez. and the rest of the ALPA cheerleaders will say that transportability of seniority is impossible....I guess every other profession has mastered the "impossible"......

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Exactly!....It doesn't matter if you are ALPA, USAPA, APA, or IBT....The first union that cracks the seniority code will become the new "ALPA".....

MI-IV? You could get Tommy "Cracko" Cruise to star in it.... Joe... you could be an extra that gets killed..

We are too invested in our own carriers to act in the best interest of the whole.....

Of course... that is why you sued ALPA so you can "get yours". See you were all about getting something for yourself at the expense of others..

Rez. and the rest of the ALPA cheerleaders will say that transportability of seniority is impossible....

No it is not impossible... It is just a matter of moving the numbers around.....

XY= xy

You can play all the shell games you want... move all the variables... but if you want to play Portable Seniority then you are going to screw somebody somewhere....

How would you merge the list of all 43 pilot groups?

I guess every other profession has mastered the "impossible"......

***YAWN***

Joe bin legal laden, you love to make general claims that other professions are so much better off...

Which professions? The lawyers making 30k a year with 160,000 in school loans?

The doctors who's decisions are being made by the ins. companies? With Mal-practice ins. making it difficult to practice specific medicines...


Look Butterfingers, while your eating popcorn, watching others, you can't even begin to offer solutions or ideas to the problems yet you love to hold other accountable...

Do you know what that makes you?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Of course... that is why you sued ALPA so you can "get yours". See you were all about getting something for yourself at the expense of others..

Just as we see with USAir/AWA and more recently now with DAL/NWA.....I was looking out for MY SENIORITY....Others were looking out for themselves at MY expense......That is the system we created....and the system we have to live with until it is changed.....

I doubt it will change so be prepared to have more the same......pass the butter....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

selecting what to respond to?

Just as we see with USAir/AWA and more recently now with DAL/NWA.....I was looking out for MY SENIORITY....Others were looking out for themselves at MY expense......That is the system we created....and the system we have to live with until it is changed.....

And since you are persona non grata you will do nothing to help with positive change. You are nothing but a loud mouth annoying tool in the stands..

I doubt it will change so be prepared to have more the same......pass the butter....

Naw... you can eat buttery popcorn.. that is the best you can do... I am not a quitter.... There is popcorn in the quitters corner....

 

[JoeMerchant]

selecting what to respond to?




And since you are persona non grata you will do nothing to help with positive change. You are nothing but a loud mouth annoying tool in the stands..



Naw... you can eat buttery popcorn.. that is the best you can do... I am not a quitter.... There is popcorn in the quitters corner....

....yes I am selecting what to respond to.....It's pointless to counter every line.....as it will go on forever.....The status quo will continue....You will continue to defend it....and I will question the effectiveness of ALPA....surely as the sun will come up tomorrow....

...by the way....if I am the "loud mouth annoying tool in the stands"....why do spend so much effort responding to me? I ignore "loud mouth annoying tools".....they usually go away then......

Since I respond to you.....I don't consider you to be "a loudmouth annoying tool".....I think you are wrong on just about every issue....but if you were simply an "annoying loud mouth tool"......I would simply ignore you.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

....yes I am selecting what to respond to.....It's pointless to counter every line.....as it will go on forever.....The status quo will continue....You will continue to defend it....and I will question the effectiveness of ALPA....surely as the sun will come up tomorrow....

Rather you can't keep up... you know your postion and attitudes are flawed but you don't have the skillset to advance yourself...

...by the way....if I am the "loud mouth annoying tool in the stands"....why do spend so much effort responding to me? I ignore "loud mouth annoying tools".....they usually go away then......

Because you don't accept your responsbility as a professional. You are a professional aren't you?

There are too many young guys with apathetic attitudes. They read your drivel and hatred and think its cool. They develop your M.O. of hate.

Since I respond to you.....I don't consider you to be "a loudmouth annoying tool".....I think you are wrong on just about every issue....but if you were simply an "annoying loud mouth tool"......I would simply ignore you.....

Consider your responsbilities when posting your opinions.... of course you must have some sense of concern or goodwill..... do you?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Because you don't accept your responsbility as a professional. You are a professional aren't you?

There are too many young guys with apathetic attitudes. They read your drivel and hatred and think its cool. They develop your M.O. of hate.


Consider your responsbilities when posting your opinions.... of course you must have some sense of concern or goodwill..... do you?

One of the big differences between you and me is that I want you to keep posting your "drivel"....and I suspect you want me to stop posting my "drivel"....You help prove my point of what is wrong with ALPA with each keystroke you make....

As far as "hate".....I don't "hate" you or ALPA....I don't agree with you or ALPA.....but "hate" takes way too much energy....As is typical with those of you on the left side of the aisle....you confuse criticism and critical thinking with "hate"....

I have a sense of concern and goodwill.....First and foremost that concern deals with growing my company and protecting the careers of ASA and Skywest pilots.....I am willing to extend "goodwill" to any group that respects the "concern" of a career ASA/Skywest pilot.....To those who don't respect that "concern"....there will be no "goodwill"....Clear as mud?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

One of the big differences between you and me is that I want you to keep posting your "drivel"....and I suspect you want me to stop posting my "drivel"....You help prove my point of what is wrong with ALPA with each keystroke you make....

See Joe... I know what is wrong with ALPA.. and I am working to fix it. You are not...

And it is just not ALPA... it is church, gov't etc... Every organization that has people has problems...

As far as "hate".....I don't "hate" you or ALPA....I don't agree with you or ALPA.....but "hate" takes way too much energy....As is typical with those of you on the left side of the aisle....you confuse criticism and critical thinking with "hate"....

Joe... I have yet to see critical thought from you. All you do is sneer, snide and cheer on failure...

You do hate Joe... you don't know it, won't realize or acknowldge it... but you do.

I have a sense of concern and goodwill.....

Really... what was the negative impact of the RJDC? How did it hurt the rest of us?

First and foremost that concern deals with growing my company and protecting the careers of ASA and Skywest pilots.....

How are you doing that?

I am willing to extend "goodwill" to any group that respects the "concern" of a career ASA/Skywest pilot.....To those who don't respect that "concern"....there will be no "goodwill"....Clear as mud?

See Joe... here is your flaw... you are conditional...

Leaders are not conditional.... and neither are professionals...

 

[JoeMerchant]

See Joe... I know what is wrong with ALPA.. and I am working to fix it. You are not...

And it is just not ALPA... it is church, gov't etc... Every organization that has people has problems...

Your right it is any large organization.....I actually brought this very point up in our other debate on the Skywest thread while you were typing here.....Do you know what finally got the Catholic Church to deal with the priest abuse issue? It was the lawsuits Rez...The internal organization was incapable of dealing with the issue without an external threat....

In fact do you know where the term "red tape" comes from? (History trivia break)

Using your other example....Govt.....You can only work with the Continental Congress for so long before it is time to have a "tea party" followed by a violent revolution.....

Joe... I have yet to see critical thought from you. All you do is sneer, snide and cheer on failure...

You do hate Joe... you don't know it, won't realize or acknowldge it... but you do.

OK Dr Phil....whatever you say.....Why is it if I disagree with someone or think an organization has failed...I must "hate" them......

Really... what was the negative impact of the RJDC? How did it hurt the rest of us?

I don't see a "negative impact" from this side of the fence Rez....You are helping to prove my point on the terrible conflict of interest within ALPA......Tell me....what was the negative impact....Was there one on this side of the fence....or was it only on your side of the fence......

The more you guys B!tch about it the more I realize it must have done some good.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Your right it is any large organization.....I actually brought this very point up in our other debate on the Skywest thread while you were typing here.....Do you know what finally got the Catholic Church to deal with the priest abuse issue? It was the lawsuits Rez...The internal organization was incapable of dealing with the issue without an external threat....

And I replied... I asked you if you think ALPA is akin to predatory preist and cover up?

In fact do you know where the term "red tape" comes from? (History trivia break)

Yeah sure.... got it...

Using your other example....Govt.....You can only work with the Continental Congress for so long before it is time to have a "tea party" followed by a violent revolution.....

Are you saying ALPA is akin to King George?

OK Dr Phil....whatever you say.....Why is it if I disagree with someone or think an organization has failed...I must "hate" them......

Dr Phil this... we judge ourselves by our thoughts and others by our actions..

How you perceive yourself and how you are perceived can be... and in this case... are two different things....

I don't see a "negative impact" from this side of the fence Rez....You are helping to prove my point on the terrible conflict of interest within ALPA......Tell me....what was the negative impact....Was there one on this side of the fence....or was it only on your side of the fence......

Effective leaders know how to use conflict and paradox for positive outcome... Now if you want to claim there can be better leadership at ALPA... I'll agree...

Your Lawsuit? Gee Joe... how about diverted resources, funds and energy. I'd rather have my CA's working on defending my CBA than your value-less lawsuit. As I said before.. you are the bin Laden of legal terrorism within the ranks of ALPA. You are divisive. You are the hot coffee Mcdonalds woman who sued... are you rather enjoy the association of it all...

Answer this: How much money did the lawsuit cost the RJDC? And if ytou know... how much did it cost ALPA?

The more you guys B!tch about it the more I realize it must have done some good.....

Joe.... like a rejected teen who gets a few guns and shoots up his school... you are quite the same...

No one liked you when you tried to be an ALPA rep... so you had to get noticed....

Many of teenage kids that kill rather relish thier crime cause they finally got some attention....

 

[surfnfly]

The National Officers are just about as bad as the airline CEOs. They get elected and pocket our money while the rank and file suffer. $80k a year secretarys and $98k a year housing allowance for some officers, come on most F/O's at the majors don't even make that anymore. I know who my vote will be cast for.

 

[BeCareful!]

Rez you are a f'ing joke, just like ALPA has become. Joe is right to say that with each keystroke, you bolster USAPA.

You're a pilot, right? If so, and if you're good at your craft, you should be open to taking in information. Here on this forum, you are about as closed-minded as anyone. You are just another ALPA jack@$$, and it's pretty obvious that you are motivated by personal issues, not the greater good. Guess how I know this.....guess.....OK, I'll tell you: because every ALPA person save for two that I've worked with in the past 13 years have finally proven themselves corrupt. You, my friend, act like the vast majority, not those two.

You are obviously posting here because you know that if US Airways bolts, ALPA's demise is immanent. What you don't realize is that you are helping to ensure that outcome.

 

[Captzaahlie]

If you think USAPA is so flipping great...then you vote out ALPA at your company. If you don't have any facts about this company, might I suggest staying off the band wagon. Don't be fooled about thinking this is a election has anything to do with ALPA. This is a vote for the sense of emotional entitlement by a group of Easties. :angryfire

Don't mention the word entitlement Wiskey Driver will have your ass!

 

[vetrider]

You are obviously posting here because you know that if US Airways bolts, ALPA's demise is immanent. What you don't realize is that you are helping to ensure that outcome.

I disagree. I think if USairways bolts, the other alpa carriers will be saying "what a bunch of dumb********************s..." Alpa will weather it, Prater may not though.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The National Officers are just about as bad as the airline CEOs. They get elected and pocket our money while the rank and file suffer.

How is that?

The Presidents salary is determined by democratic election by pilot representatives. How is your CEO's salary and compensation determined.

Pocket your money? They do get a living allowance to live in Wash DC. And they must pay taxes on that allowance as if it were income.

I posted before... BC, the VP of Admin, an AMR Eagle pilot makes around 100K, I am guessing. Should he sell his house and buy a Wash DC property?

Volunteering for your union actually cost money. For the common committee member to the Nat'l Officers.

But you would know that from your volunteering days. Tell me... what did you volunteer for?

$80k a year secretarys and $98k a year housing allowance for some officers, come on most F/O's at the majors don't even make that anymore.

What you really need to think about is the salaries of "ALPA management"

I know who my vote will be cast for.

Who? The USAPA guys? They have no back up plan, no insurance plans, no money and are using personal credit cards to run thier experiment in DOH grabs.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez you are a f'ing joke, just like ALPA has become. Joe is right to say that with each keystroke, you bolster USAPA.

Of course... because Joe and guys like you...use emotion based reasoning...

You're a pilot, right? If so, and if you're good at your craft, you should be open to taking in information. Here on this forum, you are about as closed-minded as anyone.

More emotion based reasoning... I see...

Keep in mind that most ALPA/union haters are pissed cause they don't manage thier own expectations and they think ALPA should serve them over 61,000 other pilots. Sound familiar...

You are just another ALPA jack@$$, and it's pretty obvious that you are motivated by personal issues, not the greater good.

Ahhh.. more emotion. I see who I am dealing with.. It seems that you are just fustrated. A common reply from those who can't keep up with logical debate...

Tell me... what is the greater good and were have a faltered

Guess how I know this.....guess.....OK, I'll tell you: because every ALPA person save for two that I've worked with in the past 13 years have finally proven themselves corrupt. You, my friend, act like the vast majority, not those two.

Wow.... everyone but two.... so what you are saying is... everyone is wrong and you are right... how you view the world is correct.

So I am corrupt... HOW... what exactly have I done that is corrupt?

You are obviously posting here because you know that if US Airways bolts, ALPA's demise is immanent. What you don't realize is that you are helping to ensure that outcome.

USAir leaving is bad. It will cost ALPA plenty is dues money, Beebe, McVennes, etc..

However, it will also save ALPA allot of headaches and the cost of negotiating a CBA for the emotionally charged Easties.

Money. That is right. It all comes down to money. If USAPA is successful your money problems will be your first and everlasting problem....

USAPA will go bankrupt and Parker will have a non union pilot group to steamroll.



Your post is nothing but pure emotion. You've provided no logical discussion. You're perfect for USAPA. Now tell me how I am corrupt.

 

[surfnfly]

Rez, I think you need to lay off that ALPA Kool-aid for awhile.

 

[Turtle21]

Of course... because Joe and guys like you...use emotion based reasoning...

Seniority matters are dealt with in a factual and reasoned approach. Representational elections are just that... a choice between two options.

ALPA seems to have developed an emotional affection for the $11M they are in danger of loosing. They are nearly hysterical. They have adopted a vindictive and hateful spirit toward those who don't kiss the ring. They flip-flop from condescension to seduction and wear lipstick like any good pig.

Their emotionalism and predatory affection is embarrassing and is just one consideration among many when casting the vote.

A bigger consideration is the flood of emotion they will spew on the fools who allow them to stay after threatening to force them to leave.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Seniority matters are dealt with in a factual and reasoned approach. Representational elections are just that... a choice between two options.

ALPA seems to have developed an emotional affection for the $11M they are in danger of loosing. They are nearly hysterical. They have adopted a vindictive and hateful spirit toward those who don't kiss the ring. They flip-flop from condescension to seduction and wear lipstick like any good pig.

Their emotionalism and predatory affection is embarrassing and is just one consideration among many when casting the vote.

A bigger consideration is the flood of emotion they will spew on the fools who allow them to stay after threatening to force them to leave.

Well said.....Just imagine if ALPA had put forth as much effort trying to solve our seniority issues as they are trying to keep those dues from leaving.....I'm getting bombarded with USAPA pop up "ads" when I log onto ALPA and I am not directly involved....You'd think this was the single most important issue to ever face ALPA....That in itself is telling about this organization....