Usapa Vote

[TWA Dude]

Does for anybody know how the vote is going.

No. The NMB doesn't look at it until April 17, 1400 EDT.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ALPA knew we were in a corner and post 9/11. Where was there help? Sign it and go. Were we not the first post 9/11 contract?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

What do you mean by this? are you saying the reality of the current environment was understood?

Many trash MESA all the time, crappy contract, contract not enforced, 5 year old group grievances,....Mesa has ALPA? So this is a good thing. Are we making ALPA look Bad or are they making us look good ....if so which mirror are you looking in? Enlighten me please?

What mirror are you looking in? With attrition out of control at Mesa... who is doing the volunteer work?

Sorry but you got guys that are there for 6 months before so they can split to Skywest. Is that ALPA's fault? Do we have a smoking gun here?

Any Net Jets guys out there? Teamsters I heard that with an appeal your total grievance time is 2 1/2 months............True? Like I said 5 years

Not sure if you realize it... but the NJA guys are debating whether to rid themselves of the IBT.


This profession what you make it.... all within the realities of the our our gov't and industry...


I was talking to a UAL guy the other day... he went to Vancuver and while there asked a fellow UAL employee if Tilton raped his pension. The reply - Nope.. the Canadian gov't wouldn't allow it.

Yet... too many pilots voted for Bush and will vote for McCain..... the types of Presidents that wink and give a thumbs up to the corporations that love to rape pensions....

These same pilots that voted GOP will turn on ALPA and blame them... not the gov't they voted for and not the Corporate raiders...

 

[hyperboy]

alpa

What do you mean by this? are you saying the reality of the current environment was understood?



What mirror are you looking in? With attrition out of control at Mesa... who is doing the volunteer work?

Sorry but you got guys that are there for 6 months before so they can split to Skywest. Is that ALPA's fault? Do we have a smoking gun here?



Not sure if you realize it... but the NJA guys are debating whether to rid themselves of the IBT.


This profession what you make it.... all within the realities of the our our gov't and industry...


I was talking to a UAL guy the other day... he went to Vancuver and while there asked a fellow UAL employee if Tilton raped his pension. The reply - Nope.. the Canadian gov't wouldn't allow it.

Yet... too many pilots voted for Bush and will vote for McCain..... the types of Presidents that wink and give a thumbs up to the corporations that love to rape pensions....

These same pilots that voted GOP will turn on ALPA and blame them... not the gov't they voted for and not the Corporate raiders...

With all that you said attrition (must be a huge reason for the attrition and the fact that they go to Skywest (non-union)...................Then why do we need ALPA You just gave examples yourself!

 

[hyperboy]

I don't vote for Presidents based on ALPA, plenty of other things way more important. If so Why is ALPA not handling their/our business...they certainly handle my money each month...no problem?


What about the conflict of interest that they Regional/Major and where they bid their allegiance? Kinda tough to have a winner on both sides of the ball?

 

[MCDU]

Netjets is going independent because like ALPA, Teamsters uses about 75% of your dues money on lawyers, special interest groups, payloss and other labor group.

Quote from their new Union page:
We need stronger advocacy within our industry and our pilot group has been dissatisfied with substantial dues revenues being spent on sporadic IBT representation for a long, long time. We assert that only NetJets pilots should control and invest 100% of all funds received in order to better secure our future.
http://www.njasap.com/faq.html

Marty

 

[hyperboy]

grievance

Netjets is going independent because like ALPA, Teamsters uses about 75% of your dues money on lawyers, special interest groups, payloss and other labor group.

Quote from their new Union page:
We need stronger advocacy within our industry and our pilot group has been dissatisfied with substantial dues revenues being spent on sporadic IBT representation for a long, long time. We assert that only NetJets pilots should control and invest 100% of all funds received in order to better secure our future.
http://www.njasap.com/faq.html

Marty

What about your grievance process?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

With all that you said attrition (must be a huge reason for the attrition and the fact that they go to Skywest (non-union)...................Then why do we need ALPA You just gave examples yourself!

Why does MESA need ALPA? If ALPA wasn't on the property how would the Freedom alter ego have gone down?

I don't vote for Presidents based on ALPA, plenty of other things way more important.

Really? What is more important than paying rent each month? Have enough money for food? In addition, I am sure you want to prosper too? No? Do you think JO wants you to enjoy life or just show up and fly the jet?

If so Why is ALPA not handling their/our business...they certainly handle my money each month...no problem?

Elaborate...

What about the conflict of interest that they Regional/Major and where they bid their allegiance? Kinda tough to have a winner on both sides of the ball?

Got a better idea? How about this...

of the 50 states how about the 25 smallest break off and create the 25 Smaller States of America.


So you are saying that in Congress, everyone works together in peace and harmony?

 

[hyperboy]

Trust me the QOL is not well at MESA and we try to make it better...believe me. OJ is determined to make it bad by VIOLATING our contract....EVERYDAY!!!!! ALPA ENFORCE IT!



How hard s that? Very difficult for ALPA I guess...We are not winning the battle I assure you!


WHOSE job is it to enforce our contract with the RLA? ALPA. The greivance process is like telling your kid to put a band aid on the leg that's broke! A 5 year broken leg? Sounds fun

 

[Freight Dog]

A few weeks ago, I flew with one of our most senior captains. I told him that I didn't agree with our current seniority system, and boy did that wake him up. He's a single digit seniority guy at Aloha.

"What do you mean?"

My response was "so if Aloha was to go under, is it fair or right for a pilot of your experience to start on the very bottom of another seniority list as an FO making 25k a year?" "Well, it wouldn't be right, but it is what it is."

Fast forward a couple of weeks, and Aloha is in Chapter 11 and very likely to go Chapter 7 on Monday. Who would have thought?

My point is that ALPA is outdated and has outlived its usefulness. USAPA has its own problems, and will most likely fail even if voted in, but I have to give them credit for at least thinking outside the box even if it's wrong. Thinking outside the box is something that ALPA could NEVER do, and that's why it's outdated, and it needs to go.

 

[MCDU]

So another ALPA carrier about to bite the dust thanks to another ALPA carrier. Whats wrong with ALPA is that is supports carriers such as Mesa that replaces higher working jobs. If you see the amount of CRJ 700 and 900 in Charlotte, you know where all the USAIR jobs went.
Thanks ALPA for your support and please stop sending me 2-5 letters a day. Save a tree. They must have spent almost 100000.$ in postage in the last few weeks. Your dues at work.

Marty

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Trust me the QOL is not well at MESA and we try to make it better...believe me. OJ is determined to make it bad by VIOLATING our contract....EVERYDAY!!!!! ALPA ENFORCE IT!

So is it JO or ALPA?

How hard s that? Very difficult for ALPA I guess...We are not winning the battle I assure you!

Again... why do you expect ALPA to be effective at mesa? Who told you ALPA was?

Have you considered its more than ALPA?

WHOSE job is it to enforce our contract with the RLA? ALPA.

Ok... who exactly? Name names of who should be enforcing your contract? Some dude named ALPA?

The greivance process is like telling your kid to put a band aid on the leg that's broke! A 5 year broken leg? Sounds fun

Who wrote the laws and regulates the greivences process? ALPA?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

My response was "so if Aloha was to go under, is it fair or right for a pilot of your experience to start on the very bottom of another seniority list as an FO making 25k a year?" "Well, it wouldn't be right, but it is what it is."

Whoa! It would not be right or fair? Why? and what is the fix?

Recall this is America... you know capitalism, free market society etc... cut throat market competition. If we were small business owners then we'd glee when our competition ran out of business.

I agree it is not fair. I've been furloughed twice. But instead of one person getting a raw deal you are suggesting that it roll down hill and others get the same raw deal as well...

I never expected my fellow pilot at another carrier to accept the consequences of my failed CEO and is weak business plan.

Why should a fellow pilot that was smart or lucky enough not to get hired at Aloha have to feel the pain of Aloha's problems????

My point is that ALPA is outdated and has outlived its usefulness.

Wrong! You blame ALPA yet too many pilots support a gov't that advocates cut throat competition.

USAPA has its own problems, and will most likely fail even if voted in, but I have to give them credit for at least thinking outside the box even if it's wrong.

Are you serious? you are giving credit for what you concede is wrong???

Thinking outside the box is something that ALPA could NEVER do, and that's why it's outdated, and it needs to go.

As soon as ALPA goes outside the box then its creditbility suffers.

Look, ALPA, a labor union, doesn't have the political support and power to go outside the box. Why do you expect it to?

But if you want to condone ALPA, then what kind of outside the box thinking should ALPA do?

National Sen List? How... NO ONE CAN SHOW US HOW!!

SOS? HOW!! Pilots think demonstrations are weak!!

Gov't? HOW? Pilots vote for Bush and McCain!!


ALPA is not gov't. ALPA is not power. Labors strength comes from consensus. That is why speaking out against ALPA in public makes it easy for gov't and CorpAmerica to divide us.

If you are having issues with your spouse, you don't go public or send a broadcast email to the WHOLE family!!


The reason why MLK jr was effective was he got all of his people to stop riding the buses. His "dream" speech would be unknown if it weren't the unified masses who showed up....


As long as you keep acting like a small business owner, Corp America will continue to play us....

 

[TWA Dude]

USAPA has its own problems, and will most likely fail even if voted in, but I have to give them credit for at least thinking outside the box even if it's wrong.

Exactly what "outside the box" thinking are you so enamored of? They think they can vote around a previous agreement -- something only their lawyer apparently believes is legal. They also plan to put just about every issue out to vote by the whole pilot group. Just wait and see how much fun it'll be trying to get any business done that way. If it was such a good idea it would be the norm.

Thinking outside the box is something that ALPA could NEVER do, and that's why it's outdated, and it needs to go.

So exactly who are these ALPA thinkers who are so outdated? Oh yeah, they're the reps who get elected by the pilots. Changing unions doesn't change the pilots. Once again, ALPA is merely a scapegoat.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So another ALPA carrier about to bite the dust thanks to another ALPA carrier. Whats wrong with ALPA is that is supports carriers such as Mesa that replaces higher working jobs.

Oh.... so you are saying that if Mesa was not ALPA then Mesa would not undercut another ALPA carrier...

Is this correct?

If you see the amount of CRJ 700 and 900 in Charlotte, you know where all the USAIR jobs went.
Thanks ALPA for your support and please stop sending me 2-5 letters a day. Save a tree. They must have spent almost 100000.$ in postage in the last few weeks. Your dues at work.

Marty

So if ALPA was called something else.... then it would not have given all those jobs away?

And those USAIR jobs... they were taken away without consent from the USAIR pilots?

 

[Wiskey Driver]

DOH does not equate to a staple. The only pilots that got stapled were East pilots. 17 years of service and they get stapled behind newhires. Most furloughed pilots should have been back on the property long time ago. Most of them are holding blocks and E 190 captain slots. We are still undermanned. Reserves are all timed out. We are seriously short.

DOH with fences and protections is the only fair way.

AWA pilots do not want to wait their turn. In 10 years, about 75% of the EAST will be gone. So, all you former Mesa pilots at AWA, I know you liked stealing our flying. AWA is a scab infested airline and thats were scabs belong. Its funny that a large number of AWA are MESA and Trans States. Two proud ALPA carriers that love taking away mainline flying.

I say permanent separate lists sine the Nic will never be implemented. Then sell off the unprofitable West. Let them merge with ALOHA so they can save someone else.

Marty

Hahahaha Unprofitable west, that's classic! The east was a twice in 24 months bankrupt mess before AWA came along and now SINCE AWA turned your nightmare of a company around you say sell off the west? Here's a clue, no west no more usair!!!

WD.

 

[vetrider]

http://www.newcastlenow.org/index.php/article/op_ed_sexual_harassment_in_westchester/

Here is "their" lawyer in action, what a putz.

 

[taxi1wire]

Kidding?

USAPA has no financial hope of lasting.... voting in USAPA is career suicide.... Parker will steamroll USAPA into BK and reap the winnings of a representative-less pilot group....

Are you out of your mind? ALPA has hosed you for years. And you want more? Everyone needs to realize that ALPA has become like the Teamsters. The only thing they care about is ALPA. The individual airlines and individual pilot groups matter not. A vote for ALPA is a suicide vote, not the other way around.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Are you out of your mind? ALPA has hosed you for years. And you want more? Everyone needs to realize that ALPA has become like the Teamsters. The only thing they care about is ALPA. The individual airlines and individual pilot groups matter not. A vote for ALPA is a suicide vote, not the other way around.

Can to make logic of your hyberbole?

Not sure if you know what it takes to run the finances of a pilot union, but it does take money.

Explain how USAPA is going to afford FPL and a strike fund?

The reason why pilot groups like the IPA and the NPA have management friendly contracts is becuase those pilot groups simply cannot afford to strike.

Take my regional... we got 2 million in ADDITIONAL support from ALPA for our current contract negotiations. We could have never afforded that...


So at USAPA how are you going to fund this "Tyranny by the Majority?"

Recall the USAPA website.. every pilot needs to give $200......


So... you tell me....

 

[coolyokeluke]

It's too bad US Air didn't go chapter 7. Their motto apparently is divided we conquer.

 

[AV80R]

... Fast forward a couple of weeks, and Aloha is in Chapter 11 and very likely to go Chapter 7 on Monday. Who would have thought?...

Sorry for the thread hijack but do you really think chapter 7 is the next step? I was online some 30 minutes ago trying to buy tickets on you guys but I guess I should probably reconsider it huh? Planning a pretty important day so I want to make sure we'll get there all right…

Hope you're wrong and wish everyone at Aloha the best. Flown on you before and love your service.