ALPA: Time to learn from this vote.

[PCL_128]

Majors are stable these days?

We control our own code. Any outsourcing that is done by our companies has to be approved by our pilot groups first. We just voted down two TAs that would have allowed management to outsource bigger airplanes. Can you vote it down if Delta management decides to RFP some of your flying to a lower bidder? Nope. It's completely out of your hands. That's what makes regionals so risky for a career.

Ask a B6 driver if he out to ruin your profession. Whats the difference between them and citrus besides a union.

The difference is simple. We are fighting to improve our careers and profession, and the non-union B6 pilots are just taking whatever management throws to them. Without a union, you have no ability to fight to improve your career and your profession.

 

[SERPICO]

Without a union, you have no ability to fight to improve your career and your profession.

I have a voice, a set of balls and a pair of legs I use to walk with. I can walk on my terms, not when a union, that is out of touch and several generations behind decides. I may be stubborn and end up in last place, but if "Pilot Unity Pays" I know I have practised it as an individual and will do it again if I have to. Be careful not to insult the union of course, they know whats best for everyone.
It is time for a change, until that time comes, I have to operate within this system the best way possible. I have no intention, nor will I go out of my way to screw anyone, but the union is living in the past.

 

[PCL_128]

If you use your legs to walk to another job, then you start at the bottom again. That's not a real choice. Management has your by the balls, and the only thing you have to protect yourself is a union.

 

[SERPICO]

Speak for yourself, I'm qualified enough to fly in other sectors beside the airlines. I built my experience doing other flying. My eggs ain't all in the same basket.
Oh, and nobody at work puts their hands on my balls.

 

[BE90flyer]

A question for PCL. When you accepted your current job at Airtran, did you tell them what they are in for?

I assume the conversation went something like

“Thank you Air Tran for the job offer. I accept your offer of employment at the pay scale and current work rules you are offering.

I do however fill the need to warn you that at anytime of my employment I might decide that the pay I agreed upon is not enough. Also I might determine the work rules that I agree to now are bad. If this happens I will demand more money from you, if I don’t get it I will cry foul and strike. If I need more vacations or more commutable trips, I will demand them. If not I may strike and try to shut down your airline. Oh I won’t quit because that would mean starting over, I will just expect and demand you comply with everything I want.

OK, now that I have that out in the open. I accept your job offer."

Union were meant to protect workers against unfair work rule i.e. forced overtime, child labor. Not to make your career choice the best career there is.

Does anyone on FI actually know PCL? I am curious to see if he is this big of a dumbbbbasss in person.

 

[BE90flyer]

deleted

 

[evilbeef54]

Ooooh, go for it. I don't commute.

for someone who says that Skywest screwed over everyone in the industry and is only looking out for them selves, you seem to be doing the exact same thing. You say that you will deny any OO guy a jumpseat, well guess what, a LOT of your fellow ALPA guys use Skywest to comute to and from work, and this is a two way street. If we start getting denied jumpseats you will start getting denied jumpseats. Now even though this may not effect YOU it WILL effect your co-workers and fellow ALPA members. All day, every day as i walk through the 80 gates at LAX i see MANY ALPA guys waiting for jumpseats, especially at the end of the night and early in the morning, I have talked to several that bid for schedules knowing that we are the last flight home, or the only way to get to work in the morning. Your selfishness and high and mighty, self centered, "It doesn't effect me" attitude may lead to screwing over your people and their quality of life. It also doesn't exactally help your cause of trying to make ALPA look good, "join us or we'll F*** you over"

That being said i am a pro union guy but if you screw me over, you will get the same treatment from me.

("you" being a general term, maybe not specifically YOU, but you are concerned for everyone's well being not just yourself, right? :erm: )

 

[CitationUltra]

A question to chew over:

How can ALPA support both major and regional pilot groups who frequently have opposing agendas?

Frequently have opposing agendas?

The agendas are diametrically opposed, as in 180-degrees out, oil-an-water/night-and-day. There is no way that ALPA can, ever has, or ever will be able to represent a regional pilot group with a straight face.

 

[DX Rick]

MANPADS

Aren't these the things you'll find in PCL_128's overnight bag?

Has the bleeding stopped, sweet cheeks?

 

[PCL_128]

Aren't these the things you'll find in PCL_128's overnight bag?

Even I have to admit that that was pretty funny.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Aren't these the things you'll find in PCL_128's overnight bag?

Has the bleeding stopped, sweet cheeks?

Screw the coffee...I blew my entire lunch out my nose after reading that! :laugh:

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Screw the coffee...I blew my entire lunch out my nose after reading that! :laugh:

That is because you are personality based, pop culture, flavor of the month kinda guy..... a super sized, whats in it for me, where do I get mine style...

Do you know what they really are?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Frequently have opposing agendas?

The agendas are diametrically opposed, as in 180-degrees out, oil-an-water/night-and-day. There is no way that ALPA can, ever has, or ever will be able to represent a regional pilot group with a straight face.

And yet they do.......

Now..if you think ALPA should reject someone elses career intrests for your own, then maybe you don't understand how our system of gov't works.....

 

[CopilotDoug]

That is because you are personality based, pop culture, flavor of the month kinda guy..... a super sized, whats in it for me, where do I get mine style...

Do you know what they really are?

Did you rip that off George Carlin?

 

[evilbeef54]

well I have been away from my truck (borrowed from my father in law) which is parked at my domicile for a while, I have been getting commutable trips a lot lately so I haven't really needed it. But this morning I got in early so I decided to go out and get IHOP. when I got to the truck I see that some asshat put an ALPA bumper sticker on my truck. I don't care what your opinions are everyone is entitled to have their own but there is NO F'ing excuse for messing with someone elses property. I wouldn't be as upset if it was MY personal truck, I might even leave it on, but this made me mad. I am supposed to return the truck on friday so I tried to carefully peal off the sticker but it just tore into pieces. Now I have to go buy a bottle of goo off or something. GRRRRRR!!!

 

[BoilerUP]

well I have been away from my truck (borrowed from my father in law) which is parked at my domicile for a while, I have been getting commutable trips a lot lately so I haven't really needed it. But this morning I got in early so I decided to go out and get IHOP. when I got to the truck I see that some asshat put an ALPA bumper sticker on my truck. I don't care what your opinions are everyone is entitled to have their own but there is NO F'ing excuse for messing with someone elses property. I wouldn't be as upset if it was MY personal truck, I might even leave it on, but this made me mad. I am supposed to return the truck on friday so I tried to carefully peal off the sticker but it just tore into pieces. Now I have to go buy a bottle of goo off or something. GRRRRRR!!!

That sucks...the person that did that is an asshat AND a vandal.

 

[Spicepilots]

Wrong! Being a SKYW pilot is supporting totalitarianism. No vote, no choice, no input, no nothing. Jerry speaks... you move. How fast is detrermined by Jerry. It would be more difficult more me to look at my wife if my boss treated me like this...

Yep, uncle Jerry has all of our cell phone numbers. We can't call for pushback until we get his verbal approval. Rez, you might have some valid points about the value of collective bargaining, but your rhetoric gets more rediculous by the day.

 

[buscap]

Hey Skywest guys,

In my opinion you guys messed up. While you are obviously entitled to that mistake, I feel you have really shortchanged yourselves.

The fact is every single one of you know that every single benefit and dollar you earn is at the expense of all unionized pilots. Your quality of life and pay have been set at a level just high enough to keep a union off the property.

The real shame of it is most of you are trying to get hired at major airlines, in pursuit of even higher payscales. Payscales bought and paid for by unioni pilots.

I hope at least one of you realizes you just kicked your own profession in the nuts.

Stupid move guys.

But, good luck with everything. Hopefully the ramifications for the industry will not be as bad as some think. It's just a shame you missed an opportunity to contribute to the profession.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yep, uncle Jerry has all of our cell phone numbers. We can't call for pushback until we get his verbal approval. Rez, you might have some valid points about the value of collective bargaining, but your rhetoric gets more rediculous by the day.

And the SKYW guys retread-ing of weak excuses as to why they didn't want ALPA is getting old....

I have consistantly asked the hard core questions and no one had addressed them....

Is there critical thought?

 

[Soverytired]

There's no such thing as a closed shop in this country. They were outlawed many years ago. Guess you guys need to do a little more research before you can have an intelligent debate. Maybe you should learn the difference between closed shop and agency/union shop first?

Technically true.

Practically speaking though, it's a distinction that is meaningless.

When joining an ALPA carrier, you may elect to be a "dues paying non-member". You can opt out of the union, but can still be assessed what the union paid to negotiate the contract you work under.

This actually seems like a reasonable compromise to me. In principle, you should have to pay your fare share for the costs of negotiating your CBA . . . but no more, if you're not interested in other aspects of union membership.

Unfortunately, there are several rather nasty caveats that will bite you in the butt if you exercise this "act of conscience" option:

1. You save no money, because your union will tell you with at straight face that 100% (or very nearly 100%) of your dues are used solely for your contract negotiations. How convenient. There are groups and lawyers that will fight this, but it's not worth the expense.

2. If your pilot group goes on strike, you're boned from both ends. Management will expect you to cross the picket line (something even an anti-ALPA pilot myself would NEVER in a million years do), and you'll probably be fired if you don't. The union will get you canned when the dust settles. I don't remember the particulars, but there was some sort of clause in the Mesa contract that allowed the union to do this.